[2014 EOYT] Wales vs New Zealand

[donmcdazzle]

Lol you do realise I am not from the USA hahaha how many people has this caught people out :lol:

I'm not saying you can't so don't get your knickers in a twist.

Just stating that you leave old Brian alone. Roberts or Hibbard for me could have gotten the MOTM.

hibbard? Couldn't throw a party. Defended well but messed up his core duty.

Robert's made yards, but made a couple of errors too.

overall it's pretty weird to give MoM to someone whose team got beaten by 20. Retallick was as good as anyone.

 

[j'nuh]

How did Robert get MOTM when they were beaten so handy?

I know it was tight up to 65mins and admittedly I didn't see it but was he that good?

I thought he had his best performance in a very long time.

His defence has always been good, but I feel that his attack has been blunted for the last few years. He took the ball a lot more flatter today, and broke the gainline time after time because of it. Impressive attacking performance from 12 for me. I think that this is in part down to the pace that Webb brings to the Welsh attack.

Although I would say Webb was Wales' best player. His darting at the fringes is absolutely fantastic, and he brings a pace to the backline that isn't there when he isn't on. I've been hesitant on him because he can be sublime and stupid from moment to moment, but he's quickly improving and becoming my favourite Welsh player.

Thought that more should have been made by Wales after a Roberts carry though. It's inexcusable that the wingers received so little ball.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Lol you do realise I am not from the USA hahaha how many people has this caught people out :lol:

I'm not saying you can't so don't get your knickers in a twist.

Just stating that you leave old Brian alone. Roberts or Hibbard for me could have gotten the MOTM.

No idea who you are or where you're Originally from. I thought Hibbard and Roberts do what they always do, go into contact. They do what their limitations and Wales' game plan allow them to. I like Brian usually, but I have no idea why he chose JR as MOM. Eddie Butler asked him 3 times and he eventually plumped for JR as he could not think of any other. Kieran Rad was a more obvious candidate for me.

 

[Mikel92]

Nope, I'm pretty sure Ranger was from the Wellington region, but perhaps NickNZ could confirm that ... I never got the vibe that, he was particularly biased against players from outside of his region, well, no more so than anyone else

... I always thought he had a pretty good knowledge of some of the up and coming players to watch for, coming out of the NZ academies etc.

... To be fair on his comments on Slade, he (Slade), did look like a deer trapped in the headlights a bit, a few years ago ... I had doubts, and I'm from the Crusaders region.

Bit off topic sorry: Hmm, I must have the wrong fella then. The one I'm thinking of was from somewhere more north than Welly and really had a thing against Canterbury players. There was a cluster of them, so I just left in the end. This was a few years back so can't remember which forum specifically of anything, but that username rang a bell.

Edit: I see most people are voting Barrett as their man of the match on a Stuff News poll. His individual moments were brilliant, but his overall control of the match at 10 when the momentum wasn't with us was concerning. I guess they only looked at the highlight video.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Thought that more should have been made by Wales after a Roberts carry though. It's inexcusable that the wingers received so little ball.

Problem of having Roberts - Davies midfield I think. Need someone with a bit of creativity there that would help get the likes of North involved.

 

[james5000]

Nope, I'm pretty sure Ranger was from the Wellington region, but perhaps NickNZ could confirm that ... I never got the vibe that, he was particularly biased against players from outside of his region, well, no more so than anyone else

... I always thought he had a pretty good knowledge of some of the up and coming players to watch for, coming out of the NZ academies etc.

... To be fair on his comments on Slade, he (Slade), did look like a deer trapped in the headlights a bit, a few years ago ... I had doubts, and I'm from the Crusaders region.

Anyway, I've survived the potential heart attacks listening to this match on the radio, I'm very much looking forward to seeing it some time soon.

The goal kicking stuff, well see where we are at in Seven months time ... All of that can be fixed over the super season.
@Darwin ... Yes, we'll identified, outside backs need to be able to field the high ball on attack and defense, and a fullback who can kick/clear the ball a great distance, is definitely an asset ... Ben Smith's ability to do this, puts him in the top two fullbacks playing for the All Blacks, along with Dagg .. Which is great, because we need two

He didn't have anything against Slade, he just was of the opinion that playmaking was an inherent skill which can be nutured but not developed. He was just saying that Slade didn't show signs of having the ability and most would have agreed with him and so did I at the time. I just said that Slade might get there at some stage given a bit of time and direction and he laughed and said that rugby wasn't a video game you can't just tap a button and give him the skills, he didn't have the ability because it wasn't part of his skill set.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Roberts MOTM.

Maybe Hibbard or even Kieran as other candidates for MOTM could have been.

But good test from the ABs, Welsh defence was rock solid, but soon it got broken up a bit.

 

[inteNZity]

good morning, if we are discussing the 1st 5's from a WC perspective Barrett is a concern, he is proving to be a better player once the game opens up, apart from the '87 WC final, WC finals don't open up, teams go for 80 min, it will be a physical and tactical slog, we won the last one by bringing on Donald. if Hanson wanted to find things out about Barrett, he just did.... Carter to start, if not fit then Cruden... Slade in the squad as utility giving 3 1st 5's on tour. if Barrett wants to make the squad he should ask the Hurricanes if he can start at FB for the sp15's. there is nothing wrong with Cruden coming off the bench to play 1st 5. And again I think we are under estimating the loss of Ma'a, I think he has grown from being the player supported by those around him to being the player supporting those around him... Also Hanson will be watching Vito with interest in the supper 15 as the loosies need a spark, he will push for the 6 jersey. all just observations, in the end the coaches/selectors are running the show from the inside so 'in Shag we trust'... cant wait for 2015...

 

[donmcdazzle]

good morning, if we are discussing the 1st 5's from a WC perspective Barrett is a concern, he is proving to be a better player once the game opens up, apart from the '87 WC final, WC finals don't open up, teams go for 80 min, it will be a physical and tactical slog, we won the last one by bringing on Donald. if Hanson wanted to find things out about Barrett, he just did.... Carter to start, if not fit then Cruden... Slade in the squad as utility giving 3 1st 5's on tour. if Barrett wants to make the squad he should ask the Hurricanes if he can start at FB for the sp15's. there is nothing wrong with Cruden coming off the bench to play 1st 5. And again I think we are under estimating the loss of Ma'a, I think he has grown from being the player supported by those around him to being the player supporting those around him... Also Hanson will be watching Vito with interest in the supper 15 as the loosies need a spark, he will push for the 6 jersey. all just observations, in the end the coaches/selectors are running the show from the inside so 'in Shag we trust'... cant wait for 2015...

hate to be a stickler (and to turn this into another Donald thread) but that wasn't the case. He only came on for an injury. If there wasn't any injuries I doubt he would have even got on the field, it definitely wasn't a tactical sub.

Barrett's kicking from hand and tee was poor. He didn't know how to cope with the rush defence. He was, as he usually is, dangerous from broken play. Maybe he is a 15/10 rather than the other way round?

It could be a straight shoot out between him and Slade for a squad spot.

 

[ENZED-88]

Took longer then expected but AB came right in the end. The welsh defense was impressive for most of the game but offered nothing on attack. Roberts was good but man of the match? Best of the welsh not best on field.

 

[nzlizard]

I just dont agree with you on Crudens form its been average all year and anybody can tell his confidence is not what it was. Fact is he'd of started all of the big matches if his form was any good!

tbh I don't think you can say this given how the selectors have picked this year for the backs.

 

[smartcooky]

It makes perfect sense and you know it. What a load of bleather.

No it doesn't and no it isn't.

In the English language "Would have" is what is known as the "conditional perfect". It refers to a missed opportunity in the past.

When using it as a contraction. it contracts to "would’ve", not "would of."

The word "of" is a preposition, it makes no linguistic sense to use it in this fashion. It is never correct to write "would have" as "would of.". The only way "would: can be followed directly by "of"[/i] is when the preposition "of"refers to an expression after itself. So, the present conditional "would" is followed by an expression that begins with "of"., for example

I can ask no more of you than I would of myself (the "of" refers to "myself")

I sorry if this seems pedantic, but I don't like seeing the English language bastardised when it is not hard to get it right!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

A positive for Barrett, I think would rather have him at fullback than dagg at the moment which work with him coming off the bench

 

[dullonien]

Been a while since I last posted, but I've been lurking...

Wales defended remarkably well for 65mins, forced a lot of mistakes from NZ. However that simply isn't good enough, basic errors, an imploding lineout, failure to get Davies, North & Cuthbert into the game ultimately cost us. We failed to put points on the board when we should have in the first half and that always left us vulnerable, especially with the lads out on their feet in the final quarter.

I'm not fussed about the final score, the Phillips charge down ended things, and the will was no longer there, understandable from my point of view, after the players had given so much.

Regarding the Phillips charge down, not entirely his fault (not that I think he deserved to be there, Gareth Davies & Webb when Davies returns please), but what was Paul James doing at the side of the ruck? Just let the NZ player (Retallick or Read?) through unopposed. These lapses of concentration is really killing us in the final 10min of games. We were still in the game up until that point, a try would have got us back in the lead, but that was such a soft try to concede, it was infuriating.

As for Wales' motm, Roberts was good, we should have done a lot more from the work he did in attack. Hibbard was good defensively, but his lineout throwing went to pot in the second half, a major reason why we lost, as we couldn't asset any attacking pressure. Webb looked a class act, good all round display from him. Biggar played very well, but blotted his copybook with that missed tackle on Savea (went way too high, although tackled his well every other time...). Lydiate had his best game in a while, out on his feet when Tips replaced him. For me though, Warburton was truly immense, he was everywhere, and unlike some of the other Welsh players, he was still going strong up until the game was lost. He may not have got many turnovers, but he slowed a hell of a lot of ball down, and put in some important tackles, ran with the ball, eclipsed McCaw in this game for me.

So where do we go from here? I think the side that started today is just about the strongest we have. Not sure about Paul James atm, not doing nearly enough, and not looking all that comfortable scrum time either. Jenkins is too injury prone to really bank on, so imo we need to find another loosehead. Nicky Smith needs more game time to see if he can cut it at this level imo. Personally I think we desperately need Ken Owens back at hooker, Hibbard gives it his all, but we need the best lineout thrower to start and Owens is just that. Lydiate played well today, but I still think that Tips should be given the 7 shirt, with Warbs shifting to 6, and allow that trio to settle. Tips can give us some spark from a different location on the field. I still don't feel wholly comfortable with Roberts and Davies in midfield, they're the best we've got atm, and a fully fit Davies would be more involved in the game, but we're missing a distributor in that midfield to get the best out of North and Cuthbert. I really like Beck, but he's had his injury problems. Allen is another possibility. Have we got time before the WC though?

All in all, happy with the effort, disappointed with the execution and result.

Congrats NZ, we tested you for 65 mins, but you bided your time and took us to the cleaners in the final 15mins. Just shows that we have to offer more than defence to win. We need to create more, do the basics in attack better (secure attacking lineout ball, get quicker ball from the ruck, protect our half backs better, and get the ball to our dangerous runners in some space more often). Same old really.......

 

[Kiwi_]

I really wish we had someone other than Coles, he does some good stuff, but he's a meat head at the end of the day and I can see him getting sent off in tight WC game and making things ten times harder for us. Slade making a good impact again, really rating him other coming off a bad run of injuries.. wish he had that form for the Highlanders when he was with us. That England, Australia Wales group is looking even better. Can't wait for the WC.

 

[turmeric2015]

I really wish we had someone other than Coles, he does some good stuff, but he's a meat head at the end of the day and I can see him getting sent off in tight WC game and making things ten times harder for us. Slade making a good impact again, really rating him other coming off a bad run of injuries.. wish he had that form for the Highlanders when he was with us. That England, Australia Wales group is looking even better. Can't wait for the WC.

I watched Coles' debut match for the Canes at the cake tin some years back. I happened to be sitting in front of his grandparents. They were the nicest people, and so proud of their grandson. He played very well that day, scored a try right in front of us and I thought, this kid is special. Went to the pub that night with a mate who was in the Canes squad that year, the same pub than many of the Canes were at. I was introduced to Coles and found him to be an arrogant prat. A few months later I was not surprised at all when he got in trouble in Porirua for being drunk and disorderly.

Point of this story? I agree with you to an extent. I've been a harsh critic of Coles ever since I met him, but his on field play has impressed me to no end over time. He is integral to this AB team now, he is by far the best hooker in NZ if you take all things into account. Kevy is fantastic, but his minutes have to be limited, and that relegates him to time of the bench and the odd start - not enough to replace Coles. The rest of the Hookers in NZ are not even close. So, Coles must learn to chill the f u ck out - that's where I agree with you. I think he has a tendency to be a bit of a di ck. I;m surprised that hasn't been drilled out of him yet by the senior ABs. He has been around a while now, the AB culture should have sunk in, he needs to figure that s h it out quick smart so he doesn't bugger up our WC chances.

 

[Jbobo]

Been a while since I last posted, but I've been lurking...

Wales defended remarkably well for 65mins, forced a lot of mistakes from NZ. However that simply isn't good enough, basic errors, an imploding lineout, failure to get Davies, North & Cuthbert into the game ultimately cost us. We failed to put points on the board when we should have in the first half and that always left us vulnerable, especially with the lads out on their feet in the final quarter.

I'm not fussed about the final score, the Phillips charge down ended things, and the will was no longer there, understandable from my point of view, after the players had given so much.

Regarding the Phillips charge down, not entirely his fault (not that I think he deserved to be there, Gareth Davies & Webb when Davies returns please), but what was Paul James doing at the side of the ruck? Just let the NZ player (Retallick or Read?) through unopposed. These lapses of concentration is really killing us in the final 10min of games. We were still in the game up until that point, a try would have got us back in the lead, but that was such a soft try to concede, it was infuriating.

As for Wales' motm, Roberts was good, we should have done a lot more from the work he did in attack. Hibbard was good defensively, but his lineout throwing went to pot in the second half, a major reason why we lost, as we couldn't asset any attacking pressure. Webb looked a class act, good all round display from him. Biggar played very well, but blotted his copybook with that missed tackle on Savea (went way too high, although tackled his well every other time...). Lydiate had his best game in a while, out on his feet when Tips replaced him. For me though, Warburton was truly immense, he was everywhere, and unlike some of the other Welsh players, he was still going strong up until the game was lost. He may not have got many turnovers, but he slowed a hell of a lot of ball down, and put in some important tackles, ran with the ball, eclipsed McCaw in this game for me.

So where do we go from here? I think the side that started today is just about the strongest we have. Not sure about Paul James atm, not doing nearly enough, and not looking all that comfortable scrum time either. Jenkins is too injury prone to really bank on, so imo we need to find another loosehead. Nicky Smith needs more game time to see if he can cut it at this level imo. Personally I think we desperately need Ken Owens back at hooker, Hibbard gives it his all, but we need the best lineout thrower to start and Owens is just that. Lydiate played well today, but I still think that Tips should be given the 7 shirt, with Warbs shifting to 6, and allow that trio to settle. Tips can give us some spark from a different location on the field. I still don't feel wholly comfortable with Roberts and Davies in midfield, they're the best we've got atm, and a fully fit Davies would be more involved in the game, but we're missing a distributor in that midfield to get the best out of North and Cuthbert. I really like Beck, but he's had his injury problems. Allen is another possibility. Have we got time before the WC though?

All in all, happy with the effort, disappointed with the execution and result.

Congrats NZ, we tested you for 65 mins, but you bided your time and took us to the cleaners in the final 15mins. Just shows that we have to offer more than defence to win. We need to create more, do the basics in attack better (secure attacking lineout ball, get quicker ball from the ruck, protect our half backs better, and get the ball to our dangerous runners in some space more often). Same old really.......

Echo these thoughts completely.

This game also backed a few of my points i made earlier today/last night i reckon...

 

[austingtir]

Slade is a shue in. You heard it hear first.

Barrett is almost pointless to have in the squad as once you get to the semi's/final its a dour affair and usually not an open game that will suit Barrett (eve more so with it being in the UK). They either need to select all four of them or select Cruden, Carter and Slade imo. They can probably get away with taking 4 of them... but there's still guys like Kahui and others to come back so that will change things around a bit in the squad make up.

But anyway. Ill bet a dollar to a donut one of these guys atleast is going to get injured before then and for mine its actually more likely to be Cruden or Carter.

So I suspect like it or not we are going to see more of Slade before the WC.

- - - Updated - - -

I really wish we had someone other than Coles, he does some good stuff, but he's a meat head at the end of the day and I can see him getting sent off in tight WC game and making things ten times harder for us. Slade making a good impact again, really rating him other coming off a bad run of injuries.. wish he had that form for the Highlanders when he was with us. That England, Australia Wales group is looking even better. Can't wait for the WC.

This is why im such a supporter of Slades. I watched him since his comeback and there were two or three games for the Highlanders where he actually totally dominated the match (other than Cruden a couple years back nobody in NZ has done that). In the Crusaders enviroment I feel he wasnt allowed to shine as they wrongly played him at fullback initially then the teams confidence was down after losses and then he gets handed it after the total failure of Taylor. Then they get to the final and DC is running the ship again....... Carter has been given far to much of a soft ride back in each time. Hindsight is always a good thing but Blackadder and Hansen and CO have dropped the ball with Carter just walking in and out of both teams constantly. I know it was though Carters injuries but ever since going to france he's never been quite the same.

 

[Kiwi_]

I watched Coles' debut match for the Canes at the cake tin some years back. I happened to be sitting in front of his grandparents. They were the nicest people, and so proud of their grandson. He played very well that day, scored a try right in front of us and I thought, this kid is special. Went to the pub that night with a mate who was in the Canes squad that year, the same pub than many of the Canes were at. I was introduced to Coles and found him to be an arrogant prat. A few months later I was not surprised at all when he got in trouble in Porirua for being drunk and disorderly.

Point of this story? I agree with you to an extent. I've been a harsh critic of Coles ever since I met him, but his on field play has impressed me to no end over time. He is integral to this AB team now, he is by far the best hooker in NZ if you take all things into account. Kevy is fantastic, but his minutes have to be limited, and that relegates him to time of the bench and the odd start - not enough to replace Coles. The rest of the Hookers in NZ are not even close. So, Coles must learn to chill the f u ck out - that's where I agree with you. I think he has a tendency to be a bit of a di ck. I;m surprised that hasn't been drilled out of him yet by the senior ABs. He has been around a while now, the AB culture should have sunk in, he needs to figure that s h it out quick smart so he doesn't bugger up our WC chances.

Problem is Coles knows there's no one else near his quality so he hasn't tried hard enough to work on his discipline because he's not pressured by being dropped. There's just no one near him. Coltman was meant to be the next big thing, but he has regressed instead of developed the past season, which is a real shame because we need competition and cover for hooker.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Demoralising thing is just how frequently northern Hemisphere teams have been in the game at the 60 minute and by the 80 minute mark been some way off. I've never seen a team less worried by not being in front after an hour than the all blacks. When we're out on our feet, they've only just begun to play.