[2014 EOYT] Scotland vs Argentina

[MartinS]

yeah I know, huge injury...especially for a tighthead prop, the neck ! Yeah I know he's a Sarry now, had no clue he'd started already. Staffs are so efficient nowadays in sports to get you back on track even after months of inactivity and absence, it's amazing.

I agree entirely Big Ewis - I played as a tighthead prop all my career and rest assure I know how hard it is to come back after an injury and let alone a neck injury! When he left the field last year I realy thought that it was it for him ... but he is a great guy, very tough and committed, with great patience to maintain his spirit during this long recovery! His driving force has been to be ready for the Pumas WRC campaign, so I expect him back in the team next year!

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

its been confirmed today that Greig Laidlaw will take the captaincy role after Grant Gilchrist's injury and David Denton joins the squad to replace the injured Hamish Watson.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'd say Argentina to take a tight one, even with their injuries - less than 5. Any idea when the teams are out? I'm really excited to see Argentina, always been my kind of second team since they joined the championship and this year they were great to watch ... superb-looking back three.

 

[Horacito]

Players out for Argentina:

JMF Lobbe, due to his injury paying for Toulon.
Leguizamón, he hasn't yet recovered from his injury in TRC.
Benjamín Macome, injured while playing for Bajonne.
Matías Alemanno got sick
González Amorosino wasn't called by Hourcade for this particular game

There is a good chance that at least 25% of the team that comes out saturday will be amateur, if not a wider proportion. Plus the rain, plus playing in their home... gonna be extremely difficult to defeat them. Some words from Hourcade, taken from ESPN's Scrum Argentina:

"Is hard to analize them because they have a new coach. When he took over in june, he didn't show that much. He took a team to USA, another to Argentina and other one to Southafrica. Now, he had more time to work and I guess we'll see what he wants to do with the team.

We've been analizing the coach rather than the team. It is going to be different than we've seen in the six nations, and different to june, it's another reality, other players, other team.

He took some historic players out of the team, but i think Cotter is not going to change his views on rugby, so we're going to stick to what we know about him, when it comes to strategy and how he uses to plan every match."

Also, my compadre Horacio Agulla said very positive things about the scottish, praying their bravery and how they get pumped up when they play home.

We'll be lucky if we win.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

so here are the guys who are missing from scotland due to injury

Alex Dunbar
Grant Gilchrist
Hamish Watson
Matt Scott
Ruaridh Jackson
Chris Cusiter ? i think
Ross Rennie
Jon Welsh

 

[Big Ewis]

I agree entirely Big Ewis - I played as a tighthead prop all my career and rest assure I know how hard it is to come back after an injury and let alone a neck injury! When he left the field last year I realy thought that it was it for him ... but he is a great guy, very tough and committed, with great patience to maintain his spirit during this long recovery! His driving force has been to be ready for the Pumas WRC campaign, so I expect him back in the team next year!

@MartinS
that's the most important thing, mental toughness, far in front of physical toughness or anything else. Being a *real man* is more than the superficial macho attitude, sometimes it's not lifting 100kg but more discrete things like being patient, never giving up, keeping your head up and never complain. I've always respected ppl coming back from serious injuries so much, I can relate (not injury but health problems). It's so tempting to just give up, it's just one step, when getting back on the field can be one thousand steps.
Anyways Ayerza is the best scrummager in the world right now, LH or not, and the Pumas have been DOMINANT as hell even with an average TH. Herrera looks good in the Pumas scrum, but quite mediocre for the Castres pack, so that means Ayerza and the Pumas technique are all that important. Been waiting to see a healthy present Ayerza+Figallo for a while now. Shouldn't be long and I hope the latter returns a bull like before, so you can have a full corrida stable in the front row Ayerza+Creevy+Figallo, uuufff...I like the sound of that.
@Horacito, hola ! bienvenido. Nice to see some Argentinians here...

Scotty thank God Scotland are finally including Denton in. And it took an injury to get him in the squad ?? Will be interesting to see the Scotland XV. This is their first Tour at home for the Cotter era. Could be fruitful.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

@MartinS
that's the most important thing, mental toughness, far in front of physical toughness or anything else. Being a *real man* is more than the superficial macho attitude, sometimes it's not lifting 100kg but more discrete things like being patient, never giving up, keeping your head up and never complain. I've always respected ppl coming back from serious injuries so much, I can relate (not injury but health problems). It's so tempting to just give up, it's just one step, when getting back on the field can be one thousand steps.
Anyways Ayerza is the best scrummager in the world right now, LH or not, and the Pumas have been DOMINANT as hell even with an average TH. Herrera looks good in the Pumas scrum, but quite mediocre for the Castres pack, so that means Ayerza and the Pumas technique are all that important. Been waiting to see a healthy present Ayerza+Figallo for a while now. Shouldn't be long and I hope the latter returns a bull like before, so you can have a full corrida stable in the front row Ayerza+Creevy+Figallo, uuufff...I like the sound of that.
@Horacito, hola ! bienvenido. Nice to see some Argentinians here...

Scotty thank God Scotland are finally including Denton in. And it took an injury to get him in the squad ?? Will be interesting to see the Scotland XV. This is their first Tour at home for the Cotter era. Could be fruitful.

yeah the squad was announced when denton was still injured but its good for us that he's back but i wish brown can still be here

 

[chippieolamus]

Predicted teams?

 

[Jbobo]

Think Scotland could steal this, but it's a big ask.

 

[Horacito]

Here you go mate:

Marcos Ayerza, Agustín Creevy y Ramiro Herrera; Juan Cruz Guillemain y Tomás Lavanini; Rodrigo Báez, Javier Ortega Desio y Leonardo Senatore; Martín Landajo y Nicolás Sánchez; Manuel Montero, Juan Martín Hernández, Marcelo Bosch y Juan Imhoff; Joaquín Tuculet.

I can't tell about Scotland.

 

[Big Ewis]

Here you go mate:

Marcos Ayerza, Agustín Creevy y Ramiro Herrera; Juan Cruz Guillemain y Tomás Lavanini; Rodrigo Báez, Javier Ortega Desio y Leonardo Senatore; Martín Landajo y Nicolás Sánchez; Manuel Montero, Juan Martín Hernández, Marcelo Bosch y Juan Imhoff; Joaquín Tuculet.

I can't tell about Scotland.

Pretty good. Could use the missing quality at flanker, but otherwise it's nice. I LOVE scrums, and I'm amazed by how they've replaced Figallo like, no problemo. Again, Herrera isn't even that good a scrummager on his own as seen last year and this year in Castres.

As for Scotland, fk em... Scotty.

 

[Horacito]

I shoud have stated that this is not my team: it's the team Hourcade is going with this saturday. People of ESPN argentina have been at training with the guys, and this is the first team Hourcade is using, and the most probable of them all.

We have to put Herrera into a context: Pacific Cup with Pampas, June internationals with Pumas, finals with Castres and Rugby Championship. I'm surprised he didn't got injured.

As for his talent, I agree: we have more talented props than he, but they're probably too young. I think Mati Díaz plays the same position...

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Pretty good. Could use the missing quality at flanker, but otherwise it's nice. I LOVE scrums, and I'm amazed by how they've replaced Figallo like, no problemo. Again, Herrera isn't even that good a scrummager on his own as seen last year and this year in Castres.

As for Scotland, fk em... Scotty.

bit upset when you didn't tag me but anyway onto topic i'll make 2 teams one which is one i want to see and the one vern is most likely to pick

my team:
1.) Gordon Reid
2.) Scott Lawson
3.) Geoff Cross
4.) Richie Gray
5.) Jonny Gray
6.) Rob Harley
7.) Blair Cowan
8.) David Denton
9.) Henry Pyrgos
10.) Finn Russell
11.) Tommy Seymour
12.) Duncan Taylor
13.) Mark Bennett
14.) Sean Maitland
15.) Stuart Hogg

Predicted Vern's team:
1.) Gordon Reid
2.) Ross Ford
3.) Geoff Cross
4.) Tim Swinson
5.) Richie Gray
6.) Al Strockosh
7.) Blair Cowan
8.) Johnnie Beattie
9.) Greig Laidlaw
10.) Duncan Weir
11.) Tim Visser
12.) Peter Horne
13.) Sean Lamont
14.) Sean Maitland
15.) Stuart Hogg

@Horacito what team would you like to see ?

 

[Big Ewis]

bit upset when you didn't tag me but anyway onto topic i'll make 2 teams one which is one i want to see and the one vern is most likely to pick

my team:
1.) Gordon Reid
2.) Scott Lawson
3.) Geoff Cross
4.) Richie Gray
5.) Jonny Gray
6.) Rob Harley
7.) Blair Cowan
8.) David Denton
9.) Henry Pyrgos
10.) Finn Russell
11.) Tommy Seymour
12.) Duncan Taylor
13.) Mark Bennett
14.) Sean Maitland
15.) Stuart Hogg

Predicted Vern's team:
1.) Gordon Reid
2.) Ross Ford
3.) Geoff Cross
4.) Tim Swinson
5.) Richie Gray
6.) Al Strockosh
7.) Blair Cowan
8.) Johnnie Beattie
9.) Greig Laidlaw
10.) Duncan Weir
11.) Tim Visser
12.) Peter Horne
13.) Sean Lamont
14.) Sean Maitland
15.) Stuart Hogg

well I don't usually tag ppl when I've got "fk their team" on that same line !
Why in the world wouldn't you have the giant Visser in there ??? Isn't he on form ?? Visser+Maitland+Hogg sounds just about peachy to me. Think, that's without Max Evans even. Lamont at center ? That guy Dunbar injured ? Man Scotland have a nice backline from 9-15...

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

well I don't usually tag ppl when I've got "fk their team" on that same line !
Why in the world wouldn't you have the giant Visser in there ??? Isn't he on form ?? Visser+Maitland+Hogg sounds just about peachy to me. Think, that's without Max Evans even. Lamont at center ? That guy Dunbar injured ? Man Scotland have a nice backline from 9-15...

lamont did play 13 at the 2013 six nations and dunbar is injured, and visser or seymour is actually a tough pick they're both player very well.

 

[Horacito]

I would change Herrera for Díaz, who played super rugby and, I think, has all the conditions to be some crossover between Omar Hassan and Roncero's presence. Probably he needs time from Hourcade's point of view.

I would put Cordero as well after seeing him in Gold Coast. Dammit, we're a few steps from having our own version of Shane Williams.
I would use Cubelli instead of Landajo. And finally, I would take Patricio Fernandez, because we can't survive just with Sánchez: if we want to be one of the big dogs, we can't have just one player at such a place as half-fly, it's ridiculous.

And I would take Imhoff out and put Agulla in: Montero and Imhoff are very poor defenders, you shouldn't use them both at a time.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

how old is condero ? i would have thought montero would be good in defence

 

[MartinS]

Players out for Argentina:

JMF Lobbe, due to his injury paying for Toulon.
Leguizamón, he hasn't yet recovered from his injury in TRC.
Benjamín Macome, injured while playing for Bajonne.
Matías Alemanno got sick
González Amorosino wasn't called by Hourcade for this particular game

There is a good chance that at least 25% of the team that comes out saturday will be amateur, if not a wider proportion. Plus the rain, plus playing in their home... gonna be extremely difficult to defeat them. Some words from Hourcade, taken from ESPN's Scrum Argentina:

"Is hard to analize them because they have a new coach. When he took over in june, he didn't show that much. He took a team to USA, another to Argentina and other one to Southafrica. Now, he had more time to work and I guess we'll see what he wants to do with the team.

We've been analizing the coach rather than the team. It is going to be different than we've seen in the six nations, and different to june, it's another reality, other players, other team.

He took some historic players out of the team, but i think Cotter is not going to change his views on rugby, so we're going to stick to what we know about him, when it comes to strategy and how he uses to plan every match."

Also, my compadre Horacio Agulla said very positive things about the scottish, praying their bravery and how they get pumped up when they play home.

We'll be lucky if we win.

Horacito, I believe the flanker that got sick is Guido Petti and not <Matias Alemano - he played last weekend with the Barbarians in Twickenham and when interviewed he was doing great.
As to Daniel Hourcade's performance I think he has been able to materialize a lot of his ideas and in a very short period of time - Although not as short as you mention, he took over the team by mid October of last year, not in June this year. Granted, he had no choice than to keep the same team for last years NH tour. None the less, the changes I can appreciate with less than a year of work is very promising!
One last comment, this year the Pampas XV played the Pacific Championship Cup in Australia (and won it undefeated!) - South Africa, was the Vodacom Cup played 2010, 2011 & 2012

 

[Horacito]

Cordero is 21, but he's small and that goes against him... 1'75 I think.

Montero is one of the worst defenders in International: if he wasn't, he would be the first option by far. That's why Hourcade is apparently working like a beast to make him into a decent tackler at least. Watch out the first try of SA against us in TRC this year.

 

[MartinS]

how old is condero ? i would have thought montero would be good in defence

Scotty, Santiago Cordero is 20 - Manuel Montero 22 and Juan Imohff 25

Of the 3 wings I believe that the weakest in deffence is Montero, although he is getting better! Absolutely fantastic in attack as well as Imhoff and Cordero