[2014 EOYT] England v Australia

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If Billy was consistent then he'd almost certainly be the first choice English 12. He isn't though, generally.

This, when has he performed against the big sides? for club and country.

Must be last chance saloon for him.

 

[Maverick1987]

This, when has he performed against the big sides? for club and country.

Must be last chance saloon for him.

I think that's what rats means . If he could perform at a high level like Robshaw does everytime in an england shirt he would be a very formidable inside centre

 

[Big Ewis]

Kuridrani out ??....shiit...just for that I might actually shift to England winning this. He's been so present in every single game for the Wallabies this year. An absolute essential component just like Hooper or Folau...

(or Faingaa....)

 

[Bada-Bing!]

England squad to face Australia

Forwards: Dave Attwood (Bath), Kieran Brookes (Newcastle), Dylan Hartley (Northampton), James Haskell (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain), Rob Webber (Bath), David Wilson (Bath), Tom Wood (Northampton).

Backs: Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester), Anthony Watson (Bath), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester).

 

[Shaggy]

Speight started last week. AAC on the left wing, if he moves to 13 Tomane comes in on the left or Rob Horne (i guess)

Rob Horne is a 13 that's been playing on the wing, so he's also an option at 13

 

[goodNumber10]

Rob Horne is a 13 that's been playing on the wing, so he's also an option at 13

he is, but it's unlikely they'll start him over AAC, who plays 13 with Horne on the wing under Cheika at the Tah's.

 

[Shaggy]

he is, but it's unlikely they'll start him over AAC, who plays 13 with Horne on the wing under Cheika at the Tah's.

Yes, agreed, particularly as AAC is vice captain ... but, you never know

I've always rated Horne at Centre, and would like to see him play for Australia there one day ... but perhaps against England isn't the right match

 

[Rugga-lad]

Very impressed with Australia under Cheika. They are really playing well. Hoping for an Aussie win.

 

[Big Ewis]

Very impressed with Australia under Cheika. They are really playing well. Hoping for an Aussie win.

whoever's playing England, ay ?
I know it's just one guy, but I dunno that Kuridrani news has really made me very conflicted now about my prediction, not confident at all Aus will take this anymore...England lost two games at home to 1st and 2nd best and all of a sudden their fans and the whole world are considering them Tier 7 and feel they belong in a tournament with Tunisia, Botswana, Mauritania and Burundi.

You take either of Kuridrani, Hooper or Folau away from Australia and that's a substantial handicap for them. How many times have I seen the former break the line, make a clean break, take on a couple of defenders to free up space - all the attention he mandates...

I got a hard one last week when I said Ireland by 4, so let's see if I can get this one. Australia have come close each time this tour, close one in Wales, France and Ireland and could've won all 3 (hardest to come was the one in Paris though). England need this win BADLY and are at home...we know this England team can nullify Australia's attacking and high activity, and with just one or two good scores off a lineout and maul and easy finish off 2-3 passes at the end out wide, a good scrum, a starving pack moving forward and goal kicking efficiency materializing...and maybe with Ford starting, they can play more complete 15-man Rugby and add a dimension that's not been there so far this November.
I have a feeling England will get it, but will still go with Australia. By 4.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I trust the England forwards to be able to do their job without too many issues (apart from lack of good breakdown work) but I feel that Englands performance will largely depend on the performances at 9,10 and 12. If all of them perform to a good standard, I think England could win as we may be able to finally utilise our back line. If there is a problem in that line, I think we will slip back to 10 man rugby and that rarely beats SH sides.

 

[j'nuh]

When Tuilagi comes back he's likely to slot back in to his usual role which means that more than likely at some point see Ford, 36, Manu axis . Man if Leicester had kept Ford and 36 that would have really helped England

PS. just my 2 pence worth does it seem like GN10 is arguing with a different person every thread ? Guys leave the personal insults out move on and ignore each other if you have to ..... Kids usually get taught that in the playground . Only saying because it's ruining the threads IMO

I thought Leicester could have done a lot more to give these players the game time to prove themselves. Everyone knew that they would be great players, Leicester didn't really allow them to string together enough games to prove it.

(Even worse that they managed to lose both Ford and Flood!)

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

I'm glad to see May beginning to score tries and I think a Ford-Eastmond-JJ pairing would be able to get him good ball much more and we could really see his talents. I think the right wing really needs to be between Roko and Nowell with Roko 1st choice. The position that worries me most is at 9.

Absolutely, why not start Stringer at 9 and drop Brown for Watson, I suppose we could leave May in there, but why not bring Banahan or Woodburn in on the wing? In fact, why not replace Lancaster with Mike Ford and throw Henson in as Mascot for good measure....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I thought Leicester could have done a lot more to give these players the game time to prove themselves. Everyone knew that they would be great players, Leicester didn't really allow them to string together enough games to prove it.

(Even worse that they managed to lose both Ford and Flood!)

Load of tosh J'nuh

In fact the only time they could of played together
Ford would have been 17, 36 22 and Manu 19 that is a very young 3/4ers backline for the games Leicester were wanting to do. Ford and 36 were extremely inconsistent with there performances either brilliant or shocking and sometimes still are.

Unlike other clubs our coaches don't tend to have the luxury of a transition year to give young players a extended run out, hell people were calling for cockers head when we finished 3rd.

We lost Ford because at the time he wasn't better than flood, we lost 36 because he wasn't and still isn't a better option than Allen for our backline we lost flood because he wasn't being picked for England at 10 and wanted to earn more money.

Also wouldn't define as Twelvetrees as a great player yet.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

We lost Ford because at the time he wasn't better than flood, we lost 36 because he wasn't and still isn't a better option than Allen for our backline we lost flood because he wasn't being picked for England at 10 and wanted to earn more money..

Agree with the majority of your post, but I would point to Leicester's player management as being quite poor. To use Saracens (boo hiss) as a comparison, the squad rotation policy they employ, along with the way they treat players off the field has allowed them to keep promising talent happy whilst they wait for their time on the pitch to come e.g. George Kruis, Jamie George, Farrell, Ben Spencer, Will Fraser... not to mention a host of other Academy players.

I appreciate with Ford, his dad had an influence, but you can't deny that losing those players has come back to bite Leicester. I can't help but think if Cockers wasn't so stubborn, the players mentioned might still be wearing Green, White and Red.

 

[j'nuh]

Load of tosh J'nuh

In fact the only time they could of played together
Ford would have been 17, 36 22 and Manu 19 that is a very young 3/4ers backline for the games Leicester were wanting to do. Ford and 36 were extremely inconsistent with there performances either brilliant or shocking and sometimes still are.

Unlike other clubs our coaches don't tend to have the luxury of a transition year to give young players a extended run out, hell people were calling for cockers head when we finished 3rd.

We lost Ford because at the time he wasn't better than flood, we lost 36 because he wasn't and still isn't a better option than Allen for our backline we lost flood because he wasn't being picked for England at 10 and wanted to earn more money.

Also wouldn't define as Twelvetrees as a great player yet.

I didn't mean they should have had games as a partnership. I meant that Ford and Twelvetrees left the club because they weren't getting the game time, but Leicester should not have ever let it get to that point.

On Twelvetrees vs. Allen, you genuinely think 12T wouldn't be starting for Leicester right now? I find that highly unlikely. I am a fan of Allen, but Twelvetrees is a better player and far less injury-prone. A Lion within less than 12 months of being at Gloucester, whereas Allen hasn't been on the international scene in years. Tells you everything about what Twelvetrees had the ability to achieve with the game time to back him up.

On Ford vs. Flood, there was a split of people calling for Ford as the next big thing and Flood for the current steady hand. I think that those in favour of Ford were vindicated by now...

Xsypher makes a very good point. Would like to add that after leaving the club, Castro said that there were a lot of unhappy players at the club. I suspect that a lack of game time had something to do with it.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Still disagree Owen Williams has been equal to Ford for us. (Doubt ford could have kept us in the ASM game like he did).

Twelvetrees started 18 games (sub 4)in his last season and scored 118 points for us, in fact he was going to stay then 2 days later his agent contacted Leicester and said he was moving. Glous offered him the 12 jersey and more money.

Ford started 12 (sub 9).

I understand what you are saying, but those where all solid players.

36 and Ford where both inconsistent infact the Sarries game @ home in Ford last season proved it he won the game in the first half then missed 3 kicks in the second half and sarries crawled back in.

FYI J'nuh Castro was ****** at the club because we made him buy out his own contract so he could move to Toulon, as they decide they shouldn't have to pay a relase clause.

RE 26 or Allen for me Allen fits our game plan better I doubt know how 36 would've have turned out if stayed at Leicester because he didn't.

 

[j'nuh]

Still disagree Owen Williams has been equal to Ford for us. (Doubt ford could have kept us in the ASM game like he did).

Twelvetrees started 18 games (sub 4)in his last season and scored 118 points for us, in fact he was going to stay then 2 days later his agent contacted Leicester and said he was moving. Glous offered him the 12 jersey and more money.

Ford started 12 (sub 9).

I understand what you are saying, but those where all solid players.

36 and Ford where both inconsistent infact the Sarries game @ home in Ford last season proved it he won the game in the first half then missed 3 kicks in the second half and sarries crawled back in.

FYI J'nuh Castro was ****** at the club because we made him buy out his own contract so he could move to Toulon, as they decide they shouldn't have to pay a relase clause.

RE 26 or Allen for me Allen fits our game plan better I doubt know how 36 would've have turned out if stayed at Leicester because he didn't.

Curious about how long you'll have Owen. At some point he'll want an international career, and I think Gatland will probably ignore him until he moves to Wales.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Curious about how long you'll have Owen. At some point he'll want an international career, and I think Gatland will probably ignore him until he moves to Wales.

It will be interesting.

His contract is up end of season. Although I haven't heard any rumours of him leaving yet. Hopefully he will sign on for another 2 seasons.

 

[j'nuh]

Oh dear. Well if that does happen, at least you'll have Freddie...

With Biggar, Priestland and Anscombe, I'm not sure where Owen would stand with Wales though, nor which club he would go to if he did move back.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ford was getting game time in his last season at Tigers - it was mostly because Flood was injured, but he was getting more game time than any other 17/18yr old in the premiership.
I believe Cockers(/whoever was head coach) had said that the following season he was expecting Ford to be pushing for the first XV. I think the lure of Bath's money (Leicester don't tend to splash cash for the sake of it, and it's said that they often pay less than a lot of other big name clubs, due to their name/reputation getting people interested), and working with his Dad, was what led Ford away rather than anything Tigers particularly did.