[2014 EOYT] England v Australia

[j'nuh]

The more I think about it, the more exciting it is to see Twelvetrees get given another go with Ford.

Twelvetrees was last absolutely fantastic when an in-form Burns was on his inside. I don't think there's any coincidence that the worse Burns got, the poorer Twelvetrees looked, and Twelvetrees hasn't worked with a top fly-half in a long time. I think Ford is closer than any fly-half that Twelvetrees has played with since, to the good version of Burns from a couple of years ago.

My hope is that with Ford on the inside, we'll see Twelvetrees back to the player that showed with an in-form Burns. This is because Twelvetrees has a particularly strong rucking game and a supporting kicking game, which I don't think any other English 12 has. The more important the running game is to the fly-half, the more important it is to have a 12 with these abilities. Add the distribution, solid defence and carrying option and I think Twelvetrees is, in theory, the perfect foil for Ford. (Also, less important, but since we aren't playing an out-and-out fetcher, it's always nice to have another player involved who has a strong fetching game for their position.)

 

[ratsapprentice]

If Billy was consistent then he'd almost certainly be the first choice English 12. He isn't though, generally.

 

[j'nuh]

I suspect Ford may go some way to solving the consistency issue. Mainly, I think that with Farrell inside and Burrell/Barritt outside, the onus falls far too much on Twelvetrees to create, and I don't think that that's where Twelvetrees' abilities particularly lie. I think Twelvetrees tried to force it and made blunders as a result. Twelvetrees is much better suited to supporting a playmaking 10. So I hope that Ford and Twelvetrees will bring the best in each other out.

 

[goodNumber10]

I suspect Ford may go some way to solving the consistency issue. Mainly, I think that with Farrell inside and Burrell/Barritt outside, the onus falls far too much on Twelvetrees to create, and I don't think that that's where Twelvetrees' abilities particularly lie. I think Twelvetrees tried to force it and made blunders as a result. Twelvetrees is much better suited to supporting a playmaking 10. So I hope that Ford and Twelvetrees will bring the best in each other out.

I'll agree with that, 36 likes to cut lines, and likes to play 10 off 2nd phase - when he was on form he was probably the most balanced 12 we've had - he has that ability to get his upper body around the man or make him sit down and pass before contact - i do understand why people made the Greenwood comparisons, and like Greenwood he's been quite inconsistent in his first stab at international rugby.

The one thing he does very much have over Eastmond is size and as we saw with his try against Scotland when he decides to go through the man he's more than capable of doing so.

 

[McTallshort]

In unrelated news I just interviewed the uncle of Billy Twelvetrees for a job

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The thing is I think on form we have a good number of different combinations for the 10-12-13 axis we could use that would work, the trouble is Lancaster has frequently chosen a lot of people who are all fulfilling 1 requirement over others and as a result get a lot of samey players. When that top requirement is defence, you get a lot of players who are selected for tackling ability above all else. Look at our forwards, 4-7 all ones expected to make lots of tackles but not so much to carry or ruck. 10, 12 and 13 have largely been about tackling ability with the exception of Tuilagi who is one of the few players chosen for his attacking threat. Problem with that was he then became our only attacking threat.

I'm glad to see May beginning to score tries and I think a Ford-Eastmond-JJ pairing would be able to get him good ball much more and we could really see his talents. I think the right wing really needs to be between Roko and Nowell with Roko 1st choice. The position that worries me most is at 9. I really can't think of a 9 who definitely needs to be starting above the others. Do we really have any 9's who can be relied on the deliver fast, accurate ball from the breakdown consistantly? They all seem determined to slow it down...

Also with regards to supporting Wales, I suggest you take a peep at the ScumV forum. A large chunk of them make us look like we are delighted with our team

 

[Maverick1987]

I suspect Ford may go some way to solving the consistency issue. Mainly, I think that with Farrell inside and Burrell/Barritt outside, the onus falls far too much on Twelvetrees to create, and I don't think that that's where Twelvetrees' abilities particularly lie. I think Twelvetrees tried to force it and made blunders as a result. Twelvetrees is much better suited to supporting a playmaking 10. So I hope that Ford and Twelvetrees will bring the best in each other out.

When Tuilagi comes back he's likely to slot back in to his usual role which means that more than likely at some point see Ford, 36, Manu axis . Man if Leicester had kept Ford and 36 that would have really helped England

PS. just my 2 pence worth does it seem like GN10 is arguing with a different person every thread ? Guys leave the personal insults out move on and ignore each other if you have to ..... Kids usually get taught that in the playground . Only saying because it's ruining the threads IMO

 

[goodNumber10]

When Tuilagi comes back he's likely to slot back in to his usual role which means that more than likely at some point see Ford, 36, Manu axis . Man if Leicester had kept Ford and 36 that would have really helped England

PS. just my 2 pence worth does it seem like GN10 is arguing with a different person every thread ? Guys leave the personal insults out move on and ignore each other if you have to ..... Kids usually get taught that in the playground . Only saying because it's ruining the threads IMO

no mate it's the same two people.... but agreed it'd be nice if people could just accept I have a different opinion and outlook to them on this particular matter and that we all don't always have to agree.

Will try to keep it tolerable from my end as long as the same courtesy is afforded to me.

 

[Maverick1987]

no mate it's the same two people.... but agreed it'd be nice if people could just accept I have a different opinion and outlook to them on this particular matter and that we all don't always have to agree.

Will try to keep it tolerable from my end as long as the same courtesy is afforded to me.

Well I'm sure I can do that too . We tend to have differing opinions but I come here for the rugby . Plus it would be **** if we all agreed on everything hey ?

 

[RoosTah]

Kuridrani is out for you as well, so i presume Cooper will move back to 13.

Jeez I hope not... Kurindrani is a big loss and I really don't know that Cooper should be in that position. I also don't know what Beale is doing in the team. Sure, he had a great Super Rugby season, but he's been worse than sh*t in every test he's played in this year.

 

[ENZED-88]

Genia has been slow all year and has developed the nasty habit of taking two or three steps before passing at a lot of rucks and just isn't taking the line on any more. Phipps meanwhile has quick service and snipes more effectively than anyone else we have right now - something that helped him score those two tries against Ireland.

As for the game in general, I have that feeling we're just going to get monstered up front and just won't get any decent ball. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm not confident about this one.

Really?? Don't tell any of the other kiwis in the forum but the wallabies are my second team,an I was ready to throw my tv out the window watching the service Foley was getting from Phipps, I would love to see what someone like Cameron smith or Matt Ballin could do if they made the switch.

- - - Updated - - -

Jeez I hope not... Kurindrani is a big loss and I really don't know that Cooper should be in that position. I also don't know what Beale is doing in the team. Sure, he had a great Super Rugby season, but he's been worse than sh*t in every test he's played in this year.

Hope he's talking bout AAC and not Quade

 

[Bean]

Both of these teams appear to be racing each other to the bottom. Who will get there first? One year out from their own World Cup, and England look a complete disaster. But the Wallabies are always prepared to one-up bad teams, with especially bad performances of their own.

My prediction for this game; 0-0. Both teams will spend more time going left to right than they will going forwards, or backwards.

 

[Patchey]

Few papers this morning pretty much confirming Farrell will be dropped and Twelvetrees start alongside Ford.

I'm with the 36 fans. I was really hoping he'd kick on after his first few England caps. Sure, Eastmond is better but I like the idea of having 36 as an option as well.

 

[goodNumber10]

Hope he's talking bout AAC and not Quade

i am.

 

[Maverick1987]

i am.

I was hoping you meant quade ! Love to see Burrell playing outside centre and running down his channel all day

 

[goodNumber10]

confirmation that Kuridrani is out:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30188699

 

[Every Time Ref]

Ha, sucks for you losing Kuridrani!

So it looks like Ford-Twelvetrees-Barritt? I'm pretty happy with that - obviously I like Eastmond, but I can see the concern over pairing him and Ford together. Not that I think either is a liability, but neither will make big tackles which win the hit against big ball carriers so I can see why a coach would be concerned about puttign them next to each other and giving the oppo an obvious "thin point" in the line to run at all day. Especially Lancaster.

36 is pretty much the perfect twelve in theory - defence, powerful runner, boot, distributor - so Iv'e always thought worth sticking with to try and work on consistency. I actually agree with j'nuh above:

I suspect Ford may go some way to solving the consistency issue. Mainly, I think that with Farrell inside and Burrell/Barritt outside, the onus falls far too much on Twelvetrees to create, and I don't think that that's where Twelvetrees' abilities particularly lie. I think Twelvetrees tried to force it and made blunders as a result. Twelvetrees is much better suited to supporting a playmaking 10. So I hope that Ford and Twelvetrees will bring the best in each other out.

I agree with this - similar to my argument re: Eastmond earlier. Either would play better with a creative ten and deserves a shot; of the two, Lancaster's plumped for 36 because he's a more powerful defender, fair enough. Are we expecting Barritt at 13 or is Burrell back?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

While I'm happy at Aus losing KD, AAC is still a worldclass 13, and it leaves room for speight to come in.
I think our starting backs should be able to handle him, I dread to think what Yarde would do when faced with him.

 

[Crapspray]

I'm hoping Joseph comes in alongside 36. Barritt won't be needed to organise the defence, and England can have a 13 who can use their wingers properly.

Burrell too, I suppose. Though I'd rather Lancaster got out of his fetish of 12s at 13. Only took him a year to stop putting Brown on the wing...

 

[goodNumber10]

While I'm happy at Aus losing KD, AAC is still a worldclass 13, and it leaves room for speight to come in.
I think our starting backs should be able to handle him, I dread to think what Yarde would do when faced with him.

Speight started last week. AAC on the left wing, if he moves to 13 Tomane comes in on the left or Rob Horne (i guess)