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[2013 EOYT] Wales

Yeah, unfortunately you're right re Ryan. How the hell can we only have one viable option at 8? Why didn't one of the regions do more to lure Gareth Delve back to Wales? Considering our only 8 is as young as Faletau is just makes things worse, because if he hadn't developed as quickly as he did, we'd be totally screwed.
 
Yeah, unfortunately you're right re Ryan. How the hell can we only have one viable option at 8? Why didn't one of the regions do more to lure Gareth Delve back to Wales? Considering our only 8 is as young as Faletau is just makes things worse, because if he hadn't developed as quickly as he did, we'd be totally screwed.

Bring back Powell all is forgiven?

No, thats a silly idea.
 
**** a duck. Cuthbert has done his ankle, will find out Monday the extent of it. In bloody good form and the only blues back that poses a threat.
 
So, where do we stand after the first couple of rounds of the HC (the matches that inform us the most as to the form of the players)?

1. The 5 Lions in the Ospreys pack are struggling somewhat. It may be unfair to single out any one player, but in general the Ospreys pack hasn't been as strong as expected. Hibbard and Adam appear to be struggling with the new scrum procedure (or at least they aren't as dominant as they were last season). Alun-Wyn is a long way short of his barnstorming best for the Lions. Tipuric looked much better against Northampton from the highlights, but is still maybe a little off the boil. Ian Evans isn't even playing and is now injured to boot. Add Ryan Jones' 2 mediocre displays since returning from injury, and the nucleus of the Welsh pack is looking a little fragile to me.

Maybe it's got a lot to do with the style of play the Ospreys are employing atm. Their forward play is looking predictable with one-up runners standing still receiving the ball, and a general over-reliance on their pack. But it will be eating away at the confidence of those players which would have returned from Australia full of the stuff.

2. It's difficult to assess any of the Blues players current form, other than Cuthbert (who's possibly injured). It looks as if Warbs and Halfpenny's form has dipped, but then again the Blues tactics in most of their games have varied between dreadful and non-existent.

3. Faletau is looking good, thank god!

4. The Scarlets have provided a timely boost in confidence, with the likes of Aaron Shingler, Priestland, Jon Davies, Scott Williams and Liam Williams playing well in Europe. There's a few youngsters who have really put their hands up for inclusion, especially Samson Lee and Rhodri Williams. Juries out on Jordan Williams. One of the finest attacking players I've ever seen, but he's gutless in defence, so is just as likely to cost his team a try as he is to score a stunner.

5. I haven't seen enough of the French and English based players to make an informed decision about their current form. From what I've seen/heard, North is going well, as are the two rejects Hook and Byrne. Lydiate seemed to play well against the Scarlets, but hasn't been a mainstay in the Racing side. Roberts is injured and looks unlikely to feature this Autumn. Haven't heard too much about the form of Phillips (or if he's actually retired from international duty) or Paul James.

So overall, I'm a bit worried about the game first-up against SA. We really need out pack to be at their best if we want to challenge them. Hopefully when they come together as a unit again, things will fall into place, but Gatland and McBryde have some work to do. Things are looking a little healthier in the backs, although Roberts could be a big loss, considering how important he is to our game plan. With Beck's form taking a nosedive, Scott Williams is his likely replacement, but there are still big question marks over his passing/decision making. Whilst Priestland's return to form is a boost, I hope he isn't automatic first choice. Biggar has put in some fine performances this season, despite a game plan which doesn't give him much to work with.

My selections for the Autumn (assuming Cuthbert, Ian Evans and Ken Owens are fit, but Roberts isn't):

v SA: Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, S. Williams, North, Biggar, Phillips; James, Hibbard, A. Jones, A.W. Jones, Evans, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau; Owens, Jenkins, Lee, Shingler, Tipuric, R. Rees, Priestland, L. Williams.

v Argentina: Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, Beck, North, Priestland, Phillips; James/Jenkins, Hibbard, A. Jones, A.W. Jones, Evans, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau; Owens, Jenkins/James, Lee, Shingler, Tipuric, R. Williams, Biggar, S. Williams.

v Tonga: Halfpenny, Cuthbert, North, Davies, Walker, Priestland, R. Williams; Jenkins, Owens, Lee, A.W. Jones, Charteris, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau; Hibbard, James, A. Jones, Evans, Lydiate, Phillips, Biggar, S. Williams.

v Aus: Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, S.Williams/Beck, North, Priestland/Biggar, R. Williams/R. Rees; Jenkins, Hibbard, A. Jones, A.W. Jones, Evans, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau; Owens, Bevington?, Lee, Shingler, Lydiate, R. Rees/R. Williams, Biggar/Priestland, Walker/L. Williams.

I've juggled things around a little for different matches. The team v SA is what I think is our strongest at this moment in time, with a slight skew towards physicality, hence James over Jenkins, Lydiate over the dual opensides of Warbs and Tips, Biggar for his control, and Scott Williams in the centre.

Against Argentina I think it's vital to play as close to our strongest side as possible, although depending on how Scott goes against SA I'd possibly bring in Beck at 12. I know Beck isn't playing well, but I don't think he's being allowed to do what he does best at the O's. Of course if Scott plays well against SA, then retain him. I think Priestland could help to get Beck into the game, hence his inclusion ahead of Biggar, although once again this depends on the SA game.

Tonga was a difficult one for me. One the one hand I didn't want to make wholesale changes, but it is our only chance to try a few options. Moving North into the centre is something I'm uncertain about, but without Roberts it's a good chance to do so and opens up a wing spot for Walker. I think we have to try someone else at 9 in this game, because I think Phillips' time is coming to an end. Rhodri Williams get's my vote, with Priestland again starting for familiarity. Lee is a player who I think deserves a shot in a position where we're desperate for depth. I also think this is a good game to re-introduce Charteris, and to re-try the Warburton-Tipuric experiment. I've retained a strong bench for if things aren't quite working out.

The Aus game is difficult to select for, because a lot of it depends on what happens in the previous 3. However I do think it's a game where both Warburton and Tipuric should start. The breakdown is crucial to how Aus play, so we need to disrupt their ball as much as possible, and prevent them from disrupting ours. Having two opensides is imo the best way to do that.

Edit. Am I expecting too much from the likes of Alun-Wyn Jones, Warburton, Faletau, Davies, Cuthbert, North and Halfpenny to be starting every match after such a long season which included a Lions tour? I'd like to be able to rest every player for at least one game, but I don't think we've got the strength in depth to do so. The primary aim for this series is to win as many games as possible, so that any confidence generated by the 6 nations and Lions tour isn't diminished. Tonga may not be as strong as Argentina and Samoa who we lost to last AI's, but we must not underestimate them. As such, those key players I feel need to remain throughout in order to retain some cohesion.

Further edit. Edited the Aus side to account for the likely absences of Phillips, James and Gill. By all accounts North, Lydiate and Roberts (if fit) will be available.
 
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Interesting reading through here. From what I can gather it looks like Wales can put out a fantastic team but that the quality drops off sharply ITO depth and could become a factor. I suppose that's bad news for SA seeing as we get you guys first up. Both teams should be on a bit of a high and looking to build on good seasons (6 Nations ***le and forming the bulk of a successful B&I Lions tour vs a decent enough showing from SA and with our squad gathering experience and starting to find each other) particularly with this being game to set the trend IMO and both teams have something to make up for even if not very relevant for this match (Wales' loss in Japan if one can count that and us going down to the All Balcks who are just at another level than the rest ATM so also no real cause for alarm bells). I can't wait!
 
Just cause I'm bored, what are the most extreme sides we could put out, one being full of flair, the other full of grunt? Whilst keeping things relatively sensible.

Mine are:

Flair: Jordan Williams, Alex Cuthbert, George North, Gavin Henson/Ashley Beck, Eli Walker, Rhys Priestland (couldn't bring myself to pick Matthew Morgan), Rhodri Williams; Gethin Jenkins, Ken Owens, Scott Andrews, Aaron Shingler, James King, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau.

Grunt: Leigh Halfpenny/Liam Williams/Lee Byrne, Alex Cuthbert, Jon Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Alun-Wyn Jones, Ian Evans/Luke Charteris, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau.

Ok, there's a few positions in the flair side that would make it a complete disaster. Scott Andrews at 3, a lock partnership of Shingler and King, arguably Henson at 12, and Jordan Williams' defence.

It's interesting that the grunt side I've picked is basically our actual first choice side under Gatland. I couldn't really think of a bigger player available in any of the positions. Priestland over Biggar is it, and ironically Priestland is a 'bigger' player, just doesn't play like it. It does clearly show his intentions. It makes me a little sad, because ideally there should be a middle ground there somewhere which combines the best of both, producing a better side than either extreme.

I suppose the one thing that makes me feel a little better is that many of the players I've chosen in my flair side are young and have only really emerged very recently. So hopefully we will see a couple make their way into the side in the next couple of years to help even things out a little.
 
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Is James ahead of Jenkins now?

Undecided personally. Jenkins is only just back from injury (again), so it's difficult to fully judge his form. I missed the Toulon game, and it's very difficult to judge a player from highlights alone. Similarly I haven't seen much of James since his move from the Ospreys, so I'm not the best person to judge.

As ever, James is stronger in the scrum, Jenkins in the loose. Gatland and Howley still pick Jenkins whenever fit, so he will probably start as 1st choice.
 
Personally I'd stick with Jenkins for the time being. James had a tough time at the back end of last season.

From what I gather Hook is to miss out on selection, Jake Ball is likely to get the nod along with Samson Lee and Rhodri Williams. So if these rumours at the moment are true be interesting to see who the other two scrum halves are and is Gatland happy with sticking with just two fly halves?
 
Interesting names have made the squad:

WALES SQUAD 2013 DOVE MEN SERIES:

Forwards:
Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Paul James (Bath), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Cardiff Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT - Cardiff Blues), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro)

Backs: Rhodri Williams (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Jon Davies (Scarlets), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Owen Williams (Cardiff Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), George North (Northampton Saints), Eli Walker (Ospreys), Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Exeter Chiefs prop Craig Mitchell, Saracens' Rhys Gill, Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues) and Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro) are unavailable due to injury.



 
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I'm happy to see James Hook in this squad. But all Perpignan fly halves are selected (Hook-Wales ; Lopez-France ; Allan-Italy)
 
No Samson Lee? Gatland obviously does not think he is ready yet or rates Scott Andrews above him in the pecking order.
 
I presume his misdemeanors on the pitch has meant he's missed out for now.
 
Samson Lee is the biggest omission. Can't understand the reasoning either. He can scrummage at age 21, isn't that what you want from a young tighthead? Tbh, I don't see much potential in Aaron Jarvis, he was just a stop-gap imo. Lee is the future.

Little between Emyr Phillips and Scott Baldwin for me. Phillips has a poor summer tour, but has filled in well for the injured Owens in the HC.

Surprised, but happy to see both Cory Allen and Owen Williams involved.

Would have preferred to see Richie Rees instead of Lloyd Williams as well.
 
Byrne is playing well, and I'd have no problem if he were selected ahead of Liam Williams. I think Byrne's all round game is superior to Williams', but Gats is looking ahead to the WC which is probably a sensible thing to do.

It's the risk Lee took by moving to France. At the time he was Wales' only real option at fullback, but with Halfpenny's switch and Liam's emergence there's more competition, and Gatland has always said that when selection is tight he'll always pick the Welsh based player. Doubt Byrne would be available for the Aus game either which would have swayed things even more.
 
He didn't like it when someone told him quite clearly he should have comeback to play in Wales. At the end of the day he knew the risk he was taking by going to play in France.
 
On a tablet so that will contain me somewhat.

Lee is obviously omitted for discipline, unfortunate but there you go.
Phillips was dire in Japan, but has had better performances than Baldwin so far. Deserve ATM, especially with Rees' form.
No Ball is disappointing.
Ryan Jones hasn't looked good. Lewis Evans has been huge for us. Constantly overlooked, the Dullonien of flankers.
Rhodri Williams, good to see. Lloyd? Can't say the last time I saw a good performance from him. Rees has been better in every aspect.
Hook won't play so it doesn't matter.
Allen is our best bet for a 1-for-1 replacement of Roberts, but I think he can offer even more.
Eli Wales hasn't been as good as last year, but he is surrounded by uninspiring players right now. Our best bet to cover Cuthbert.
Byrne has been good, but not worth crying over missing out.
 
Byrne is playing well, and I'd have no problem if he were selected ahead of Liam Williams. I think Byrne's all round game is superior to Williams', but Gats is looking ahead to the WC which is probably a sensible thing to do.
I think Byrne's major problem is his lack of utility. He only plays 15. On the other hand, I've heard Liam Williams is arguably as good/better as a wing over fullback, and Hook can play 10, 12, 13 in addition to 15. Halfpenny only comes off if injured. So Byrne would likely spend the entire tour as an unused sub, whereas Liam Williams/James Hook have a better chance of being selected in their other positions (as well as being better long-term options).
 
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