2013 British and Irish Lions

[Thingimubob]

Funny thing is, it's possible that we could see at least 3 world class goalkickers in the back line if they pick Laidlaw at 9. Farrell/Sexton at 10. and Halfpenny somewhere in the back 3. Possibly even 4 if Gatland sees Farrell as a possible no.12, though I doubt it'd happen without someone getting injured first. Not a bad thing to have at all!

 

[Peat]

Kicking average statistics - over the course of an extended period of games, or even better, seasons - is one of the most useful stats there is. It will almost certainly run the gamut of range, of angle and of pressure. Yes, you'd like more in-depth statistics, but the simple percentage is still useful. Certainly, the body of evidence for Sexton leaves me happy as to his effectiveness.

Farrell? His stats are still good, but hovering around the 80pc mark in two competitions is not the stuff of legends. He appears to be mostly reclaiming his touch but it's not completely there yet. Some of the misses have been pressure matches as well. He stank the place out against Leicester at Wembley. I'd call the kick before half time against Ireland a pressure kick. And Munster away is definitely a pressure game - 42.9pc. His game against Metro was superb, an incredibly good kicking display, but it's been his only good one this HEC. 71.4pc in the home game against Munster, 66.7pc home to Embra. 73.5pc by my workings. I believe by any reasonable standard there is a greater weight of statistical evidence behind Farrell being a merely very good goal kicker at the moment, rather than the godly one he is made out to be.

However, I'm going to stop here, as I do not want the mockers remembering this post come April. Probably too late tbh...

 

[psychic duck]

Kicking average statistics - over the course of an extended period of games, or even better, seasons - is one of the most useful stats there is. It will almost certainly run the gamut of range, of angle and of pressure. Yes, you'd like more in-depth statistics, but the simple percentage is still useful. Certainly, the body of evidence for Sexton leaves me happy as to his effectiveness.

Farrell? His stats are still good, but hovering around the 80pc mark in two competitions is not the stuff of legends. He appears to be mostly reclaiming his touch but it's not completely there yet. Some of the misses have been pressure matches as well. He stank the place out against Leicester at Wembley. I'd call the kick before half time against Ireland a pressure kick. And Munster away is definitely a pressure game - 42.9pc. His game against Metro was superb, an incredibly good kicking display, but it's been his only good one this HEC. 71.4pc in the home game against Munster, 66.7pc home to Embra. 73.5pc by my workings. I believe by any reasonable standard there is a greater weight of statistical evidence behind Farrell being a merely very good goal kicker at the moment, rather than the godly one he is made out to be.

However, I'm going to stop here, as I do not want the mockers remembering this post come April. Probably too late tbh...

It would be good if stats companies could make the kicking stats more specific.

For example. Success rate from the centre of the pitch, success rate from left side, success rate from right side, and success rate from more than 45 metres. American sports make much better detailed stats than British do for sports.

 

[dullonien]

I agree. I think many teams just automatically make the 10 a kicker out of convention because it's usual. But I think it would make more sense to focus the 10 on 10 duties and get more full back/wingers/centres goal kicking.

I don't think it's a case of automatically giving the duties to the 10, at least not at pro level. at school level, and amateur club level, 10's tend to do the kicking, at least in the majority of counties, and thus it is more than likely the 10 that will be the most experienced kicker come professional level. Halfpenny started out as a 10, and thus has been a goal kicker since a young age.

In France, it is historically the 9 that kicks, and this shows at professional level. Removing this extra pressure from French 10's doesn't appear to help their game either tbh, with just about all 10's available to France at the moment being incredibly flaky. So maybe having the kicking duties is actually beneficial for an outside half?

 

[Teh Mite]

Not sure more then 2 kickers is necessary in any matchday squad

Loosing 1 to injury in 80 minutes is unfortunate, 2 is remarkable and terrible luck. 3 is just bloody wreckless or deliberate knobbling by the opposition.

 

[Jbobo]

On the kicking debate, I have tended to assume that for the lions there will be two kickers on the field at all times (assuming halfpenny is on the pitch), with Halfpenny taking the longer kicks and the flyhalf taking the shorter. However, I think with Halfpenny and with most kickers consistent goal kicking is about confidence and momentum. With this in mind I am starting to think that it would be better if Halfpenny was given the kicking duties for all positions on the pitch. He rarely misses any of the easy ones nowadays and the more of them he gets, it seems the more of the long kicks he slots through with incredible consistency. If they do this they can then decide which fly half presents the best option from a distribution, running and kicking from hand point of view. In my opinion it would be Sexton. Thoughts?

 

[Draggs]

Halfpenny can do short as well as long now. Really improved over the past 18 months.

 

[Jbobo]

Would you have him as the sole lions kicker, or would you opt for a fly half kicker to take the shorter kicks?

 

[McTallshort]

Would you have him as the sole lions kicker, or would you opt for a fly half kicker to take the shorter kicks?

Depends who the kicker is and how they want to work it. Perhaps Sexton/Farrell/whoever wants to take the place kicks, flyhalfs are a strange breed who rely more than anyone on confidence (something Welsh fly halves have been lacking of late) to say to one "look mate we think the full back is a better kicker" might not go down to well. In the case of Farrell or Sexton I dont see Halfpenny as a better place kicker, as good as perhaps but no better. So why push it? if the fly half is having a mare with the kicking T then you have a very good back up.

 

[Draggs]

Would you have him as the sole lions kicker, or would you opt for a fly half kicker to take the shorter kicks?

All kicks. He has been doing it for club and country for the past 12+ months.

 

[Thingimubob]

I'm not completely convinced that 10s need goal kicking for confidence, I mean someone brought up Nicky Robinson earlier in the thread-I personally thought he played his best rugby when the goal kicking was given to Ben Blair/Halfpenny at the Blues, and if anything his game has deteriorated slightly by him having to take the place kicks.
Personally I'd have Halfpenny taking the kicks, mostly because he can nail them under pressure from most places around the 50 - 60 mark - a la the game against France when he nailed two hugely important kicks from the touchline and from around 50m out at an angle. Seen him do it time and time again for Cardiff too, like this match winner vs Munster -

 

[dullonien]

Depends who the kicker is and how they want to work it. Perhaps Sexton/Farrell/whoever wants to take the place kicks, flyhalfs are a strange breed who rely more than anyone on confidence (something Welsh fly halves have been lacking of late) to say to one "look mate we think the full back is a better kicker" might not go down to well. In the case of Farrell or Sexton I dont see Halfpenny as a better place kicker, as good as perhaps but no better. So why push it? if the fly half is having a mare with the kicking T then you have a very good back up.

I personally think Halfpenny is a better place kicker than both Farrell and Sexton. Actually, I'm not sure there's better in the world, and he's still improving....

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'm not completely convinced that 10s need goal kicking for confidence, I mean someone brought up Nicky Robinson earlier in the thread-I personally thought he played his best rugby when the goal kicking was given to Ben Blair/Halfpenny at the Blues, and if anything his game has deteriorated slightly by him having to take the place kicks.
Personally I'd have Halfpenny taking the kicks, mostly because he can nail them under pressure from most places around the 50 - 60 mark - a la the game against France when he nailed two hugely important kicks from the touchline and from around 50m out at an angle. Seen him do it time and time again for Cardiff too, like this match winner vs Munster -

Definitely agree. Nicky Robinson has played much better for Wasps when Lee Thomas has taken the kicking duties. Lee Thomas, a much underrrated player by the way! And another ex Cardiff Blue? Although I heard that Nicky wasn't happy with having the kicking taken away from him. In general it just depends on the pyschology of the 10; do whats best for that player, assuming you have other kicking options.

Which in terms of the lions debate is more fuel for 10. Sexton 15. Halfpenny

 

[Joseph14]

So we all agree, it matters not if Cipriani is starting at 10, as long as Halfpenny is on the pitch no way can any team in history run the lions close.

 

[McTallshort]

Definitely agree. Nicky Robinson has played much better for Wasps when Lee Thomas has taken the kicking duties. Lee Thomas, a much underrrated player by the way! And another ex Cardiff Blue? Although I heard that Nicky wasn't happy with having the kicking taken away from him. In general it just depends on the pyschology of the 10; do whats best for that player, assuming you have other kicking options.

Which in terms of the lions debate is more fuel for 10. Sexton 15. Halfpenny

And I said it does depend on the fly half, both Farrell and Sexton normally take the place kicks, if you have a Ciprani or a freddie M then fine but you want your players confident and happy in there place.

 

[Thingimubob]

And I said it does depend on the fly half, both Farrell and Sexton normally take the place kicks, if you have a Ciprani or a freddie M then fine but you want your players confident and happy in there place.

At the same time I'd still take Halfpenny over them. I wanted Halfpenny as first choice kicker for Wales since well before the world cup, even when Stephen Jones/Hook/Priestland were all having good form with the boot. Just feel like he's almost too good not to use Then again may prove me wrong and have an off day sometime soon!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So we all agree, it matters not if Cipriani is starting at 10, as long as Halfpenny is on the pitch no way can any team in history run the lions close.

Adam Jones is playing 1-7, Faletau at 8, Halfpenny 9-11, Cuthbert at 14 and then Halfpenny at 15.
Australia don't stand a fupping chance.

 

[McTallshort]

^^^North should play 14 not Cuthbert, he could move into the centres in case Halfpenny has a slightly off day.

 

[TommyV]

Adam Jones is playing 1-7, Faletau at 8, Halfpenny 9-11, Cuthbert at 14 and then Halfpenny at 15.
Australia don't stand a fupping chance.

They probably do if we aren't playing any centres.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sorry, Davies is, of course, at 12/13

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