What and end up like Greece or Portugal? best of luck with that.
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What and end up like Greece or Portugal? best of luck with that.
Thingimubob
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So because Greece and Portugal are struggling, then no-one has a hope in the EU? Not quite sure what your point is? My point is, if the majority of people in Wales and Scotland want to stay in the EU, but the UK leaves, there's gonna be calls for a break from the UK as the people there are getting stuck with a situation they have democratically shown they do not want.
World has changed a hell of a lot since before we joined the EU in 1975 - especially since the post 9/11 security clamp downs. Are you so sure it's gonna seamlessly shift back into the way it was back then? Point I'm making is, if I want to book a week away in Germany now, I could book a flight now and be on my way by the time the sun is up. A lot of that is down to the free movement as an EU citizen. Whether or not that's gonna be possible if we leave the EU is completely up in the air. Other EU countries won't be under any obligations to make it easier for us anyway.
As I said before, I'm fairly biased on this, I have plans to move to Germany again in the near future. Leaving the EU will put a spanner in the works on a personal level I guess.
Well you dont know what the vast majority of people think so dont persume you do and ask yourself why Greece and Portugal are suffering.
The World has not changed a great deal since 9/11 apart from there was more terrorism back then and you had the Soviet Union and the US threatening to wipe each out but movement in Western Europe was the same as travelling to Norway now which isnt a problem at all and you could still book that flight to Germany without problems as long as it wasnt in the East....
The big issue for me will be export trade. Export laws are horrible and cause all levels of issues when exporting outside of Europe.
I seriously worry about its impact on small businesses that rely on that can't afford specialists employees to handle export control. It will also impact upon larger ones as well.
We have zero idea what these individuals trade agreements will be like and that uncertainty is not good. Pro European will tell us they will be terrible anti says we'll be in a position of power but reality is I'm unsure how they can be better.
Plus most of arguments for pulling out I find a fallacy based in perception rather truth. For example immigration which is a far smaller issue than the press make it compared to say the junior doctors strikes but the press make out it is an equal pressing problem. When it comes to benefits it's barely an issue at all in the grand scheme of the UK budget. We have far more real benefit cheats.
I seriously worry about its impact on small businesses that rely on that can't afford specialists employees to handle export control. It will also impact upon larger ones as well.
We have zero idea what these individuals trade agreements will be like and that uncertainty is not good. Pro European will tell us they will be terrible anti says we'll be in a position of power but reality is I'm unsure how they can be better.
Plus most of arguments for pulling out I find a fallacy based in perception rather truth. For example immigration which is a far smaller issue than the press make it compared to say the junior doctors strikes but the press make out it is an equal pressing problem. When it comes to benefits it's barely an issue at all in the grand scheme of the UK budget. We have far more real benefit cheats.
My biggest worry re this migration thing, is that migrants are mostly young people with, or about to start families. Removing benefits from these people will screw the children over massively.
Thingimubob
First XV
This. It's actually extremely difficult for a migrant (especially a non EU one) to claim benefits right off the bat. Even EU one's aren;t eligible to come over and straight away set themselves up on Jobseekers or whatever. Have to be here for at least 3 months as far as I know?
On migrants, the number we have let in is minuscule compared to most EU countries. Wont stop people fear mongering away about it though unfortunately.
Eh? Where have I presumed the know what the vast majority of people think? All I've done is speculate what might happen in a certain situation. Everything I've said is speculation on what might happen if the majority in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland vote to stay in (which is what the current, if unreliable, opinion polls are showing) want to stay in, but end up getting overruled by a majority in England (not what the polls are showing atm, In currently edging Out - again not reliable). That could potentially kick up a fuss in these countries and effect the unity of the UK, which is weak enough as it is.
I just hate how the EU has changed to what it is now.
Free Trade is logical and great thing.
Grants for conservations etc fine
But it is the way it has a massive say in laws and policies regarding Borders etc stuff that should be down to that countries own democracy. And it is full of short sighted politicians who try to score popularity votes through it with little thought.
Merkel being prime example and the her immigration politics last year.
I'm not against refugees/immigration etc but if we want to put limits on benefits etc it should be up to us.
Let's face it the UK esp will never fully be a part of Euro, we have a different mindset to them, we don't have the liberal blandness of Sweden, the guilt of Germany or are French (
).
IF only the EU would go back to its roots more.
Free Trade is logical and great thing.
Grants for conservations etc fine
But it is the way it has a massive say in laws and policies regarding Borders etc stuff that should be down to that countries own democracy. And it is full of short sighted politicians who try to score popularity votes through it with little thought.
Merkel being prime example and the her immigration politics last year.
I'm not against refugees/immigration etc but if we want to put limits on benefits etc it should be up to us.
Let's face it the UK esp will never fully be a part of Euro, we have a different mindset to them, we don't have the liberal blandness of Sweden, the guilt of Germany or are French (
). IF only the EU would go back to its roots more.
They will probably be the same agreements we have with China and the US
We may not be able to say with any certainty right now, except to say that the opinion polls (speaking for Scotland anyway) pretty consistently show a large majority wanting to stay. After the referendum, we'll know for sure, so your argument will be out of the window. What will your answer be to Thingimubob then?
You claim 'less terrorism' since 9/11. Have you a factual basis for that, or just a feeling?
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Yes. Kinda scary, eh? You might want to do a little research on how selling itself to China has affected the US economy.
During the 70s, 80s and 90s terrorism was a much bigger part of life than it is now in terms of actual attacks and the frequency they happened. Apart from the very active and efficient PIRA in the UK you also had the PLO , red army factions, Shiite Muslim groups, hijacks, embassies being overun, Olympics being attacked. I think the perception of terrorism is perhaps higher now but the reality of terrorism was much higher then.
The same thing happened in Australia but I don't see how we will all of a sudden stop trading with the EU if we leave it. Norway still trade in the EU. Don't forget it's primarily a political union not a trade one. If we could have the trade without the bloated parliament then fine but I don't think that's going to happen.
Will also add that it seems strange that nationalist in Scotland and Wales would want to leave the political union they are in but want to then join a bigger more distant union in Brussels where they would be much smaller fish in a much bigger pond.
It might seem strange to someone who hasn't a grasp of realpolitik. At present, our government isn't allowed a seat at the table. As an independent state, freed from a relationship with another state, we see no benefit from, we can at least be allowed to make our own arguments. Fisheries and oli can be powerful bargaining chips, as our westminster masters already know. By the way, we don't want to join that big union. We're already members. we just don't want to be forced out of it.
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Then why has our government got us all terrified of the Muslim hordes? Seems to me you could argue there's more terrorism than ever, and its largest proponent is us.
Is there any fish or oil left?
Not as many as there used to be and soon to be a lot less.
The irony of the Bitter Together claim that we'd need to vote NO to stay in the EU is looming pretty large now. Anyhoo, found this elsewhere. Read it and pooh pooh it to your heart's content.
http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/mythbusters/
http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/mythbusters/
We were almost forced out of a Union by voters in Scotland and we had no say in it.
How the hell should I know, perhaps they always need a bad guy, in the past it was the Eastern block, then it was global warming and when everyone got bored of that they are now pointing to Muslims although groups like the PLO were more active back in the day.
Are we the largest proponent of Terrorism? well yeah we are, Iraq, Afganistan, Libra etc but then the West was always funding some sort of civil war mainly against Communists who themselves were funded by the East. I just dont think for all the talk of an age of terror we in the west are suffering as much of it as we did before 9/11.
Anyone have any interest in Irish election.
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