[2015 RWC] Warm Up Match: New Zealand vs Australia (15/08/2015)

[Kiwi_]

What do you mean? Out of all the high profile referees Barnes is scrutinized the most and he is analyzed, his record with the All Blacks is an unlikely coincidence that will probably gain further notice if it continues.

 

[smartcooky]

Because they're two referees with two different styles. Games flow differently when you have a different ref calling the shots, this is hardly a new discovery.

Funny how literally no one who isn't a kiwi says Barnes was biased against the Kiwis.
Funny how it's about 1% of All Blacks, probably far fewer than that actually, that say Barnes was biased against the ABs.

I agree its not bias (as in a concious effort), but I think he has two major weaknesses in his game, the scrum and the tackle, both of which work against the way we play.

The Tackle Area
Last week, Barnes consistently allowed Pocock to win ball at the breakdown (both turnover and his own) with his hands or elbows on the ground, or while leaning (usually with his knees) on either a team-mate or an opponent on the ground. Hooper has another technique; he makes a big production of showing a clear release by extending his arms out and up (which is fine) but then puts his hands on the ground beyond the ball and drags them back to scoop up the ball. Both of these techniques are illegal as they are not supporting their own bodyweight, yet Barnes allowed them to do this with impunity, and they (especially Pocock) are much more effective when given this latitude to work in

Last night was vastly different. Owens did not allow them to do this. He made it clear by penalising them when they did, even at one stage saying to one of them "....you've put your hands on the ground then went for the ball. Other way around please!" Once they were made to compete legally at the tackle, their breakdown dominance ended.

The scrum
Last week the Wallaby LHP (Sio?) was packing with his head below hips and then either hinging (pulling Franks down) or getting his head under Franks' chest and driving up. Both these techniques are illegal but Barnes allow them to get away with it.

Last night, the first scrum penalty went against NZ; Owen missed the fact that Sio packed low and drove upward (was made obvious when Moore's head popped first). McCaw had a word with Owens, told him that Sio was packing too low, to which Owens replied "I'll have a look next time". At the next scrum, Owens talked to both front rows about not packing too low. Sio did so and got pinged for hinging and pinged again for hinging at the next one on an AR's call. Australia's scrum dominance ended there, as soon as they were made to scrummage legally.

 

[austingtir]

If Barnes is so terrible, and hates the All Blacks so much, why is one of the IRB's elite international refs, why is he allowed to referee important games and most importantly: Why is he allowed to ref the All Blacks?
If it was so blatantly obvious that he hated the ABs then why have none of the analysts noticed this?

Steve Walsh had a bloody fight with one of the England coaches, but no one cared that he reffed England afterwards, even if he was ****e. Sure there was "Oh God, Walsh again" but no global conspiracy to make us lose games.

Whole thing reeks of sore losers.

Iv been saying all year the refs in general are terrible not JUST Barnes. The SA game against Argentina at home they loose (well beaten BUT) under some very dubious refereeing then they go to Argentina and beat them admittedly against a different teams but hello!? Your carrying on like we cant even have a discussion on **** refereeing which is just totally ridiculous.

Im saying now that Barnes effected the outcome of that match and all you can do is sit there like an ostrich with your head in the sand and yell nope not possible.... Why?

How's it possible that Australia can be so dominant in the ruck last week and be totally ineffective this week? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?? And dont try to tell me its different selections and **** the refereeing was TOTALLY different in this match like off another planet different! If you cant see that then your clearly not the authority you make yourself out to be on the game!

 

[Kiwi_]

It has to be mentioned Barnes was easily influenced by Moore last week to, he's a home team ref.

 

[austingtir]

i agree its not bias (as in a concious effort), but i think he has two major weaknesses in his game, the scrum and the tackle, both of which work against the way we play.

the tackle area
last week, barnes consistently allowed pocock to win ball at the breakdown (both turnover and his own) with his hands or elbows on the ground, or while leaning (usually with his knees) on either a team-mate or an opponent on the ground. Hooper has another technique; he makes a big production of showing a clear release by extending his arms out and up (which is fine) but then puts his hands on the ground beyond the ball and drags them back to scoop up the ball. Both of these techniques are illegal as they are not supporting their own bodyweight, yet barnes allowed them to do this with impunity, and they (especially pocock) are much more effective when given this latitude to work in

last night was vastly different. Owens did not allow them to do this. He made it clear by penalising them when they did, even at one stage saying to one of them "....you've put your hands on the ground then went for the ball. Other way around please!" once they were made to compete legally at the tackle, their breakdown dominance ended.

the scrum
last week the wallaby lhp (sio?) was packing with his head below hips and then either hinging (pulling franks down) or getting his head under franks' chest and driving up. Both these techniques are illegal but barnes allow them to get away with it.

Last night, the first scrum penalty went against nz; owen missed the fact that sio packed low and drove upward (was made obvious when moore's head popped first). Mccaw had a word with owens, told him that sio was packing too low, to which owens replied "i'll have a look next time". At the next scrum, owens talked to both front rows about not packing too low. Sio did so and got pinged for hinging and pinged again for hinging at the next one on an ar's call. Australia's scrum dominance ended there, as soon as they were made to scrummage legally.

^^^^this

 

[donmcdazzle]

If Barnes is so terrible, and hates the All Blacks so much, why is one of the IRB's elite international refs, why is he allowed to referee important games and most importantly: Why is he allowed to ref the All Blacks?
If it was so blatantly obvious that he hated the ABs then why have none of the analysts noticed this?

Steve Walsh had a bloody fight with one of the England coaches, but no one cared that he reffed England afterwards, even if he was ****e. Sure there was "Oh God, Walsh again" but no global conspiracy to make us lose games.

Whole thing reeks of sore losers.

I'm sure you see more of Barnes reffing on a regular basis so have a better base to judge him on, and a lot of people rate him as a good ref. That's fine. But as a NZ fan, I just do not want him reffing us. I'm sure he doesn't have a big conspiracy against us or whatever, but I don't want him anywhere near a big game we are playing in. If he gets any knockout games of ours in the WC I'll be fuming. Give us Owens and Joubert.

 

[smartcooky]

I'm sure you see more of Barnes reffing on a regular basis so have a better base to judge him on, and a lot of people rate him as a good ref. That's fine. But as a NZ fan, I just do not want him reffing us. I'm sure he doesn't have a big conspiracy against us or whatever, but I don't want him anywhere near a big game we are playing in. If he gets any knockout games of ours in the WC I'll be fuming. Give us Owens and Joubert.

I'd even take Owens as referee in a match against Wales or Joubert in a match agianst South Africa before I would ever take Barnes.

 

[squirrel]

What concerns me as a wallaby fan is cooky saying Richie spoke to the ref after the first scrum and Nigel saying he will have a look, then at the next scrum Moore tried talk to the the ref and got told pretty much to **** off, just seems like double standards to me.

 

[Kiwi_]

Peyper, Owens and Joubert I'm hoping for this RWC, Jourbert probably a distant 3rd.

 

[smartcooky]

What concerns me as a wallaby fan is cooky saying Richie spoke to the ref after the first scrum and Nigel saying he will have a look, then at the next scrum Moore tried talk to the the ref and got told pretty much to **** off, just seems like double standards to me.

Not at all.

McCaw spoke in passing as they walked to the lineout after the penalty was kicked to touch. There was no time wasted

Moore was trying to waste time and hold up play. He tried to bale up Owens to question his decision

Different situations entirely

 

[Kiwi_]

Moore thought his Sharkish charms would work on Owens like they did on the feeble Barnes. Barnes reminds me of a useless storm trooper who Jedi's can easily manipulate.

 

[squirrel]

Nigel Owens looks like he is too much in awe of the ABs at times. Didn't seem like Moore was trying to waste time to me, he had just received some agro from a player then wondered why they were penalised at the scrum.

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Nigel Owens looks like he is too much in awe of the ABs at times. Didn't seem like Moore was trying to waste time to me, he had just received some agro from a player then wondered why they were penalised at the scrum.

 

[austingtir]

\he had just received some agro from a player then wondered why they were penalised at the scrum.

He would wonder that wouldnt he when Barnes clearly thought Australia were a bunch of saints in the last match yet there is full video evidence that backs up that they werent.

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What concerns me as a wallaby fan is cooky saying Richie spoke to the ref after the first scrum and Nigel saying he will have a look, then at the next scrum Moore tried talk to the the ref and got told pretty much to **** off, just seems like double standards to me.

What concerns me as a AB fan is Barnes saying that Australia were doing great in the the scrum and kicking our ass and nothing should change once the replacements came on....... Sounds like a biased ref to me....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What concerns me as a AB fan is Barnes saying that Australia were doing great in the the scrum and kicking our ass and nothing should change once the replacements came on....... Sounds like a biased ref to me....

Literally every ref says that

When replacements come on they basically tell them there's been no issues with scrummaging from the previous guys so there's no excuse for them.

Of course this has been explained to you before but you'd much rather play the victim card instead.

 

[austingtir]

Literally every ref says that

When replacements come on they basically tell them there's been no issues with scrummaging from the previous guys so there's no excuse for them.

Of course this has been explained to you before but you'd much rather play the victim card instead.

And I didnt agree with you the last time either it was the way it was said and the words used it was nothing like the normal comment your going on about.

 

[smartcooky]

Nigel Owens looks like he is too much in awe of the ABs at times. Didn't seem like Moore was trying to waste time to me, he had just received some agro from a player then wondered why they were penalised at the scrum.

This is just a load of horsecock!!

 

[austingtir]

At least Barnes was on the sidelines this week so he could see the error of his ways from last week..... Or is that just wishful thinking?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And I didnt agree with you the last time either it was the way it was said and the words used it was nothing like the normal comment your going on about.

I didn't say it last time, so to quote SmartCooky: That is a load of horsecock!

You lost last week, get over it.

 

[Kiwi_]

I didn't say it last time, so to quote SmartCooky: That is a load of horsecock!

You lost last week, get over it.

Sorry but that doesn't float the whole "You lost, get over it".

These are fair criticisms with proof and backing stats.

 

[smartcooky]

Anyone who believes that it is only Kiwis who have problems with Barnes' refereeing, should have a chat with Northampton supporters