[2015 Six Nations] England

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I for one am hoping that the team is:
1) Marler 2) Hartley, 3) Wilson
4) Attwood, 5) Lawes
6) Haskell, 7) Robshaw, 8) Vunipola
9) Care, 10) Cips
12) 36, 13) Barritt
11) May, 14) Nowell, 15) Brown

Bench: 16) Webber, 17) Mullan, 18) Thomas, 19) Kruis, 20) Ewers/Easter/Waldrom, 21) Youngs, 22) Ford, 23) Eastmond

 

[goodNumber10]

GN10 is entering Andy Farrell mode again guys, take cover!!!

hehe! I just think there is an important point in that englands style of play and packs inability to deliver decent attacking ball is what's really stifling our attack this year - to be fair,
It's simialr to the AI's in 2013, we were dire in attack, then come 6nations we were all over everyone.

I'm resigned to a Barritt-Burrell 12/13 combo for the first game, with it becoming Burrell-Manu when the big lad is fit again.

I was very sceptical about Burrell last year, especially him playing at 13 and his defense there, and he didn't let us down at all. So while I'd rather see Joseph or Eastmond I fairly happy with him playing. I would like to see how he does playing in his more familiar position with Manu outside him as well. Practically the only centre combo we haven't tried over the last few years! ��

I'm a burrell fan but i reckon we'll see 36/BB.

I think I'd like 36 & LB with LB moving to 12 when Manu returns.

10) Cips

22) Ford,

23) Eastmond

LOL!!!

 

[Peat]

Well he is right on that point tbf. Judging any player on a facet of gameplay that the stats suggest he didn't have an opportunity to show is somewhat flawed. You could make a case that it was simply because he was running bad lines and not offering an option - or wonder if maybe it was a tactic and his main responsibility was clearing up after other ball carriers - or maybe its all down to the players inside him.

Or you could actually look at the stats for the game and realise that with possession percentages of 34pc, and with every position from 11-15 having the lowest number of touches all game in the Australia game, it seems fairly likely that we simply didn't have enough usable ball for the backs. The Australia game had the worst rucks stats for us of all series as well - lowest percentage won, highest percentage opposition won. Neither SA nor NZ had over 100 rucks against us.

Oddly - Ford did have more touches in the Australia game than Farrell did in either of his games at 10, despite Youngs also recording lowest number of touches per position for the series in the 9 shirt. The difference seems to be more kicking; probably more need to clear I guess, but I'd love to be able to give more context to that stat. It could also be a sign of a fly-half demanding more ball for himself. I would reproduce the stats in full, but I'm lazy.

Still, with all this said and done, there are plenty and plenty of other games to be used for casting aspersions at Barritt's ability in attack at international level, so no real muss there ^_^

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think I'd like 36 & LB with LB moving to 12 when Manu returns.

LOL!!!

Trying to pick a England 15 with as many key players in teams around our position as poss (with some Saints thrown in for good measure).

Doubt Manu will play for England in the 6N's unless things goes wrong and Lancaster has to make big changes.

 

[goodNumber10]

Trying to pick a England 15 with as many key players in teams around our position as poss (with some Saints thrown in for good measure).

Doubt Manu will play for England in the 6N's unless things goes wrong and Lancaster has to make big changes.

I reckon he'll be straight back in the squad as soon as he can jog

 

[HenryChinaski]

Eastmond and Burrell haven't played together yet have they? Could work.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Manu and barritt shave caused more problems than they have solved for the england mid field really.

Barritts rubbish attack which is a fact.

And manus limitations in lots of things

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Burrell hasn't exactly done much against the bigger opposition same with twelvetrees.

 

[Tmartin995]

I have to say that I'm growing to like the idea of Slade and JJ in the centres more and more. Both ball players, Slade offers a left foot kicking option that can compliment whoever's at 10 with those long wiper kicks.

Also I noticed that Corbs is on the bench covering tighthead against the Ospreys, meaning he'll surely be in the World Cup squad if fit - I can't think of another one of the contenders who can play both sides.

 

[ratsapprentice]

No-one can really "play both sides".

 

[Peat]

Wilson has played both sides and Brookes has played 1, 2, 3. I think we'll take 3 props for each side rather than any ambipropterous players though.

 

[j'nuh]

Wow, there are people still wanting Twelvetrees for England? Personally, I'd like to see him dropped from the XV for Gloucester. I think Atkinson-Purdy might be a better combination right now, whilst Twelvetrees is left to pick up form.

For those who missed the Sarries game:

Wilson has played both sides and Brookes has played 1, 2, 3. I think we'll take 3 props for each side rather than any ambipropterous players though.

Wilson went up many gears when he focused solely on tighthead. We used to joke about him when he represented England in the 17 shirt back when match day squads only went up to 22. Not sure if his increase in ability was from form or from the fact he could knuckle down at tighthead, though.

 

[goodNumber10]

Manu and barritt shave

did they go wet or electric?

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, there are people still wanting Twelvetrees for England? Personally, I'd like to see him dropped from the XV for Gloucester. I think Atkinson-Purdy might be a better combination right now, whilst Twelvetrees is left to pick up form.

For those who missed the Sarries game:




Wilson went up many gears when he focused solely on tighthead. We used to joke about him when he represented England in the 17 shirt back when match day squads only went up to 22. Not sure if his increase in ability was from form or from the fact he could knuckle down at tighthead, though.

think you're misunderstanding what i meant.

I don't think anyone is saying 36 is playing well or should be in the England squad, but it's likely he'll feature - eastmond dones't seem to be in the mix, so it's going to be him, Barritt or Farrell at 12 (can't see them moving Burrell), so if it's a chocie of the three i'd go for 36.

 

[Every Time Ref]

If 12T starts against Wales I'll probably have to break something. I wouldn't count it out though, sadly. I want to see Burrell at 12 if Eastmond is indeed out the running. He's been a little up and down from what I've seen this season, but his England form has always been good and is like to see him in his favourite position.

I do agree with AndyFarrellNumber10, though, that sorting out the pack to give us good, quick, go-forward ball will make far more difference to our attacking than any amount of fannying about behind the scrum.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I don't think anyone is saying 36 is playing well or should be in the England squad, but it's likely he'll feature - eastmond dones't seem to be in the mix

Isn't that enough to make you cry? And this the guy who delayed naming his squad before the Autumn, citing a determination to "pick on form"

 

[Peat]

Yeah and no. I am fully signed up to the belief that our forwards aren't providing enough good ball and go forwards - but it's not like they're woeful, they do provide a good platform on a fairly regular basis, and I've seen us hurl away those advantages with such routine ineptness that it's staggering. It's not like the pack is solely responsible for generating good ball and go forwards either.

I am firmly of the opinion that there's a problem with both units; I'd probably go 60-40 in favour of the backs in terms of which is the bigger problem, but fixing either would probably make it look like the other has been fixed.

 

[j'nuh]

Yeah and no. I am fully signed up to the belief that our forwards aren't providing enough good ball and go forwards - but it's not like they're woeful, they do provide a good platform on a fairly regular basis, and I've seen us hurl away those advantages with such routine ineptness that it's staggering. It's not like the pack is solely responsible for generating good ball and go forwards either.

I am firmly of the opinion that there's a problem with both units; I'd probably go 60-40 in favour of the backs in terms of which is the bigger problem, but fixing either would probably make it look like the other has been fixed.

I'd go more extreme, maybe 80-20 in favour of backs being the problem.

If the Lions were to happen now, I think May might be the only player that would be in contention from the English backline, perhaps Tuilagi at a push, but there's also a possibility that we'd contribute no one. Compare to the pack, where we have quite a few contenders.

Actually, I think that Joseph could get in there too. (I was undecided on Joseph until I read Bath fans talking about him as player of the year and how he's a rock in both attack and defence for Bath. I don't see much of Bath, so I'm happy to go on their word.) Would love to see him given a chance for England.

 

[ratsapprentice]

JJ has been a rock in defense for us since he arrived - it was his attacking play that was a little flat last season, which has improved now.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Actually, I think that Joseph could get in there too. (I was undecided on Joseph until I read Bath fans talking about him as player of the year and how he's a rock in both attack and defence for Bath. I don't see much of Bath, so I'm happy to go on their word.) Would love to see him given a chance for England.

...and in return you've joined us all in badmouthing Twelvetrees! @ratsapprentice sums it up above, I think that JJ suffers from a strange reputation as a defensive weakness which has no connection with his actual performances. I really don't get it - it has crossed my mind that maybe on TV he sometimes gets confused with Watson? On a wide shot they are quite hard to distinguish (I fairly often mix them up), and if Watson finds himself defending the thirteen channel during phase play he doesn't look anything like so assured, maybe that's what people are seeing?

On the theoretical Lions tour, do you mean in contention for the test XV or the squad? Because I don't think it's inconceivable that Ford might have earned himself a call-up as one of three fly-halves, even possibly Brown?

 

[j'nuh]

...and in return you've joined us all in badmouthing Twelvetrees!

I want Twelvetrees to reach his potential so much, because in theory he could be the best 12 in the world. He has demonstrated that he has the entire package of skills at various points. He can be both aggressive and accurate in defence, a good kicking game for a 12, physical enough to carry well, great in the ruck zone, a distributor with great vision, cuts good angles, and so on. He was getting better and better and I thought he'd be a star. Most disappointing collapse of form for an England player I've seen in the last few years tbh. At this point, I've given up hope on him reaching that potential. Take him away from the limelight and let him get back to where he was tbh.

@ratsapprentice sums it up above, I think that JJ suffers from a strange reputation as a defensive weakness which has no connection with his actual performances. I really don't get it - it has crossed my mind that maybe on TV he sometimes gets confused with Watson? On a wide shot they are quite hard to distinguish (I fairly often mix them up), and if Watson finds himself defending the thirteen channel during phase play he doesn't look anything like so assured, maybe that's what people are seeing?

I think it's because in recent history, England centres have been large, and anyone less than 15st is perceived as being defensively weak. Barritt, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees and Burrell all have somewhere around 2-4 stone on Joseph. Eastmond also gets the same criticisms, even though he's a competent defender.

On the theoretical Lions tour, do you mean in contention for the test XV or the squad? Because I don't think it's inconceivable that Ford might have earned himself a call-up as one of three fly-halves, even possibly Brown?

One of the three fly-halves, sure. But Sexton is starting and Biggar is benching and there's no way anyone else is getting a look in. Wouldn't have Brown ahead of Liam Williams at least.