WRU wants to reduce the Principality Premiership (So the story goes)

[Jayatron]

I've been in uni in Wales now for two years and spent a season playing in New Zealand and my whole take on it, completely from an outsiders view looking in is, that it is a step in the right direction. What I noticed in NZ was the professional integrated system they had. If the some one asked why the All Blacks are so good this is the exact reason, and it is my believe that here in Wales there is the player base, support and facilities in place to mirror this system.
I think 10, maybe 12, is a good start but I would make two other fundamental changes. Firstly I would make the league fully pro, with a focus on young players, academy and fringe players on the regions. I brought a friend from NZ on the MS tour and the guy there told how much per annum the WRU make of that stadium alone. Two games and a concert would keep a fully pro league up and going for at least 2 years! The second thing, and prob most important, is changing the prem window to the summer. Don't have to compete with regions, it would be nice running summer rugby and may help pull in bigger crowds. Just my two cents.

That format would allow for standards to be upped through being pro and the summer, and also allow integration. The league is a good league, I recently watched Ponty Vs Neath and it was enjoyable. Just a shame the WRU always handle things with two left hands.

 

[dullonien]

Moving the premiership to the Summer if an intersting idea, and something I've never considered tbh. That certainly could work very well, it would mean people could support both regions and clubs (money permitting) without there being much of clash for most of the season.

I'm sure the ultimate aim is to make the Prem fully professional, but I've got no idea about exactly how it would work. Considering the WRU still haven't re-introduced the A-team yet, whilst the Millenium stadium brings in quite alot of dosh, most of it is already going to the regions, grass-roots rugby, and paying off the debt. Not sure there's quite the money there to pump the necessarly amount into the Prem to make it fully pro straight away. But increased crowds from playing in the summer could push things forwards if it worked.

I personally feel that there's a little too many journeymen playing in the prem, who don't really offer that much. A few experienced players in every team will of course help the youngsters come through, but there's gotta be a balance towards youth. Neath are one of the worst culprits here. They were still playing Arwel Thomas as their first choice 10 untill recently ffs!

I think condensing the league is exactly the right thing to do, although I'm not entirely sure the system they've proposed is the optimal one, but at the same time, not entirely sure what is. Only time will tell I suppose. One thing I hope is that Rygbi Gogledd Cymru (or whatever they're called now) will be integrated into the league in the not to distant future as the next step before becoming a full region in the Magners.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Moving the premiership to the Summer if an intersting idea, and something I've never considered tbh. That certainly could work very well, it would mean people could support both regions and clubs (money permitting) without there being much of clash for most of the season.

I'm sure the ultimate aim is to make the Prem fully professional, but I've got no idea about exactly how it would work. Considering the WRU still haven't re-introduced the A-team yet, whilst the Millenium stadium brings in quite alot of dosh, most of it is already going to the regions, grass-roots rugby, and paying off the debt. Not sure there's quite the money there to pump the necessarly amount into the Prem to make it fully pro straight away. But increased crowds from playing in the summer could push things forwards if it worked.

I personally feel that there's a little too many journeymen playing in the prem, who don't really offer that much. A few experienced players in every team will of course help the youngsters come through, but there's gotta be a balance towards youth. Neath are one of the worst culprits here. They were still playing Arwel Thomas as their first choice 10 untill recently ffs!

I think condensing the league is exactly the right thing to do, although I'm not entirely sure the system they've proposed is the optimal one, but at the same time, not entirely sure what is. Only time will tell I suppose. One thing I hope is that Rygbi Gogledd Cymru (or whatever they're called now) will be integrated into the league in the not to distant future as the next step before becoming a full region in the Magners.

Summer rugby is not what Wales needs / wants. It would not work for much the same reasons as summer football has not worked. The logistics would not make any sense either. For this to even work you would need to restructure NH rugby, which lets be honest I don't think would happen. Regions need to start supporting the clubs first and not just take the players without giving something in return, this is a major problem within the regional set ups.

Journeymen are few and far between in the Welsh Premiership, you target Neath, Dull but really thats a little unfair. Yes Arwel Thomas played there until last season but he was very successful still at that level, he ran the show at the Gnoll. I also think its fair to say that neither of the current fly half options in Dai Langdon and James Thomas were not ready and also learning from the likes of Arwel has improved their game. Likewise or Kevin Farrell and Tom James at scrum half. Neath have a perfect blend of youngsters and the right experience and that is why they have been so successful in recent years, the same goes for Pontypridd who likewise have a good mix of young and experienced players.

RGC wont be integrated any time soon. The new changes to be implemented in 2012-13 has completely excluded them from coming into the Welsh Premiership. This season under the old new plan RGC were meant to be given a play off chance, but everything went quiet after they failed to fulfil a fixture in the Swalec Cup. RGC are better than most of the bottom half sides so its a slight disappointment they are not being given a chance.

 

[dullonien]

Summer rugby is not what Wales needs / wants. It would not work for much the same reasons as summer football has not worked. The logistics would not make any sense either. For this to even work you would need to restructure NH rugby, which lets be honest I don't think would happen. Regions need to start supporting the clubs first and not just take the players without giving something in return, this is a major problem within the regional set ups.

Journeymen are few and far between in the Welsh Premiership, you target Neath, Dull but really thats a little unfair. Yes Arwel Thomas played there until last season but he was very successful still at that level, he ran the show at the Gnoll. I also think its fair to say that neither of the current fly half options in Dai Langdon and James Thomas were not ready and also learning from the likes of Arwel has improved their game. Likewise or Kevin Farrell and Tom James at scrum half. Neath have a perfect blend of youngsters and the right experience and that is why they have been so successful in recent years, the same goes for Pontypridd who likewise have a good mix of young and experienced players.

RGC wont be integrated any time soon. The new changes to be implemented in 2012-13 has completely excluded them from coming into the Welsh Premiership. This season under the old new plan RGC were meant to be given a play off chance, but everything went quiet after they failed to fulfil a fixture in the Swalec Cup. RGC are better than most of the bottom half sides so its a slight disappointment they are not being given a chance.

Fair enough, your knowlage of the Welsh Prem is far superior to mine. Pitty that RGC has been kinda put on the backburner, although it was always going to take time imo, due to the lack of quality clubs to underpin it in the North. It will take time for the academy to hit it's stride, hopefully translating into one or two high quality club sides that can feed the regional side. At a rough guess, based on almost nothing but a small amount of knowlage of the difference in quality between the clubs in the North and South, I don't think we'll see RGC as a true region competing against the Magners teams for another 10 years or longer, not by using home-grown talent. If they got the same funding though, they could lure some players from the other regions to complement what is and will be coming out of the academy, along with a few foreigners.

It's almost a decision as to whether the region is left to grow steadily over a large period of time, or fund it properly and do something more along the lines of Austrailia did with the rebels, and buy in quality players to draw the crowds, kick starting the region to some degree. I'm not sure which is the best approach, possibly a mixture of the two, as I'm hoping is the stratergy at the moment. Start off slow and allow the academy to develop, then when it's producing a stream of potential players reaching the correct age, increase the funding in order to buy a team which the youngsters can slot into when ready.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Fair enough, your knowlage of the Welsh Prem is far superior to mine. Pitty that RGC has been kinda put on the backburner, although it was always going to take time imo, due to the lack of quality clubs to underpin it in the North. It will take time for the academy to hit it's stride, hopefully translating into one or two high quality club sides that can feed the regional side. At a rough guess, based on almost nothing but a small amount of knowlage of the difference in quality between the clubs in the North and South, I don't think we'll see RGC as a true region competing against the Magners teams for another 10 years or longer, not by using home-grown talent. If they got the same funding though, they could lure some players from the other regions to complement what is and will be coming out of the academy, along with a few foreigners.

It's almost a decision as to whether the region is left to grow steadily over a large period of time, or fund it properly and do something more along the lines of Austrailia did with the rebels, and buy in quality players to draw the crowds, kick starting the region to some degree. I'm not sure which is the best approach, possibly a mixture of the two, as I'm hoping is the stratergy at the moment. Start off slow and allow the academy to develop, then when it's producing a stream of potential players reaching the correct age, increase the funding in order to buy a team which the youngsters can slot into when ready.

Im quite lucky really I know people who have played / been in the RGC setup so I know how people feel about the RGC. Hence why I know a little bit about RGC.

The system is in place and the players there are good, as I said they are able to compete with the top end Welsh Prem sides and give Aviva Prem A sides good games. I think things are less than 10 years away maybe 5. The WRU have got to establish them and get them into the WRU Premiership. It would have been the perfect opportunity with the new reform to get them involved. Instead ignoring them has done nothing and will do more harm than good.

 

[Jayatron]

Summer rugby is not what Wales needs / wants. It would not work for much the same reasons as summer football has not worked. The logistics would not make any sense either. For this to even work you would need to restructure NH rugby, which lets be honest I don't think would happen. Regions need to start supporting the clubs first and not just take the players without giving something in return, this is a major problem within the regional set ups.

I've proposed the summer window idea to a few friends over here and that was there exact response. This always confuses me as, there is no need what so ever to restructure Northern Hemisphere rugby just the Welsh Premiership, it really is a simple idea, not an idea of a revolution. Everything would still run exactly the same apart from the Premiership, being played from say February/March to August. Like I said already, the reason New Zealand rugby is so good is down to integration of all the tiers. When I was there the super rugby season was being played, and not the NPC, so we had a few provincial players. Then after the Super rugby season ended we had 1 or 2 Highlanders come down and play. After the conclusion of our season, all the clubs players, who were good enough, would then go and play in the NPC. So my suggestion is, more or less, a mirror of this, which would allow integration to happen. Not really an idea than a stolen model, that appears to work. Club and regional rugby during the normal NH season then, in theory, a breeding ground for Welsh talent as the best Club players and fringe, academy and, maybe some, established players of the regions combine to make the Premiership.
The second question my friends would ask is what about player burn out. Very simple and something the Kiwis are very very good at, game management. The summer window proposal would see premiership players playing for their home clubs, Ponty for example have a few former Beddau players. If a player was contracted to a Premiership or region then, just like in NZ, South Africa and Ireland the games a player plays is controlled to a max and, more important, minimum.
I've been Wales now for a while and can't really see how it wouldn't work or why it isn't worth a try. Wales has the player base, support, finances and facilities to support a pro league during the summer and it is my believe that this is exactly what Wales needs. If it's good enough for New Zealand and South Africa then it's worth it for Wales. I'm looking forward to the Ponty Vs Llanelli final but only wish there was more of it and not the end.
But like I said this is only my 2 cents!!

 

[TrueSlawter]

I would love the WRU North Wales Academy XV (RGC) to be in the new prem as the youth guys up here would have something to aim for past their club games. I know they have started developing Erias park for the region (if you can call them that tbh) what's needed is a place in the prem and then the other regions to give a helping hand by loaning their youth players to the region to build it up with the youth from up here.
But 1 major issue with RGC is the player base, the first team has lots of canadians within it right now (at least from what I can remember) which really it should be lots of younger players from north/mid wales with a few canadians for experiance etc. But below the senior sides one issue i've uncovered recently talking to a few team mates is recruitment for the u16 and u18 rgc squads. For example I play for Rhyl youth, won the NW youth cup 3 years in a row, in the semi's for this years, won the league 2 years in a row (not this year though) and only 1 player is in the RGC youth setup. From what i'm told is that since a ex-mold coach took over all the players have been selected from Mold, wrexham, llandudno, pwlhelli etc. (2 of which are in the league 2 up here).

Anyway slightly more on topic The new system should help build stronger regions as their youth should have more oppertunities to get constant gametime with a stronger league it could still do with improvement of the quality so the step up to magners isnt as big as it is now. A summer prem league would also be pretty nice promoting running rugby within Wales it could also help the national team in future develop a attacking side but a downside to it I see is as soon as players (if they do) step up to the celtic league playing in Winter it would make the running rugby they developed in the prem pointless untill the ground dries up again.

But It could be something to be tried in the future as if it did work like a ITM styled thing then it would help the younger players make the step up to regions, but only if as you said some established regional players compete in the prem.

 

[Jayatron]

I was thinking about the weather thing. Going by the weather we've had here in South Wales i'm pretty sure it's pointless moving to the summer. It's just autumn all year round here!! On a series note, will never really be a North Wales Region? It all seems like a pipe dream. What kind of crowd do RGC get?

 

[Alastairhufc]

Good to see Pontypool staying...

 

[Me 1]

What kind of crowd do RGC get?

Not sure but the crowd will only improve with prem status. They should probably play a couple of matches in the racecourse as well, for bigger crowds.