WRU to take over Dragons "within weeks"

[ratsapprentice]

Apparently.

 

[Amiga500]

The Big Dragon has took over the wee dragon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39855860


The first step to the WRU actually running professional rugby in Wales correctly?

[and this from an Ulsterman not amused with the IRFU currently re Ruan Pienaar - but knowing they are doing it with the best intentions for the game in Ireland - even if I disagree.]

 

[dullonien]

Yup, good news that the Neport board voted in favor, otherwise Dragons and Newport would have ceased to be. Should mean the pitch will be sorted and potentially a little extra money for players.

interesting that Peter Thomas also announced that the WRU will also take charge of Cardiff Blues over the off season, likely on a permanent basis.

so 2/4. Wonder if the WRU will look to take-over the O's and Scarlets and run the lot?

 

[Bluemoon]

Glad the vote was yes as it sounded like the alternative was to 100% lose Rodney Parade otherwise. Not sure about the WRU running it 'correctly' as it's pretty hard to know what running it correctly is in Wales.

I think it's also hard to know what the WRU's intention is. They've done well to acquire land that's probably worth well beyond what they'll fork out for it. It gives them an option to consider changing the identity of the team in the longer run.

In terms of taking over Cardiff, that's in the less than early stages and I know the Cardiff Athletic Club don't want that to happen in the slightest. It turns out it hasn't even been a proper discussion yet, the media related something before some of the directors had been spoken to. The CAC are fuming about it, I've heard the terms 'eviction' being bandied around already. Blexit- haha.

 

[Amiga500]

In terms of taking over Cardiff, that's in the less than early stages and I know the Cardiff Athletic Club don't want that to happen in the slightest. It turns out it hasn't even been a proper discussion yet, the media related something before some of the directors had been spoken to. The CAC are fuming about it, I've heard the terms 'eviction' being bandied around already. Blexit- haha.

Any particular reason why?

Are the Cardiff Blues not essentially tenants of the CAC? Thus, would the CAC care if the rental was coming from a WRU bank account or a Blues bank account?

 

[Bluemoon]

Any particular reason why?

Are the Cardiff Blues not essentially tenants of the CAC? Thus, would the CAC care if the rental was coming from a WRU bank account or a Blues bank account?

In monetary terms, it wouldn't make a difference who the rent was coming from. It's the the identity issue is all up in the air again. The CAC represent sport in Cardiff and have a strong feeling that those playing rugby at the ground should be a Cardiff team.

Those are the group who really want to make sure that 'Cardiff' remains in the name. They believe it's a strong brand etc, but also it's about supporting the history of the team. They feel WRU ownership would eventually lead to 'rebranding' of the team in an attempt to attract more from South Wales to watch the team. Also the WRU havent exactly been effective or on good terms with the regions, and many feel being independent from them is important.

Dragons are now possibly in that unknown position with WRU ownership. There's many saying they won't go anymore if there's a rebrand. They may lose as many as they gain if they try to appeal to gwent valleys, but it's hard to know without proper market research. Tricky times for all.

Heard from the inside that many of the dragons yes votes were made as they felt "they had a gun to their heads". Yes or Pro rugby disappears, Warriors style.

 

[Amiga500]

You already refer to the Dragons as... the Dragons. Nay a mention of Newport or Gwent in sight.

Would the valley men or the townies in Newport be offended at the inclusion of either location on the name? Or offended if neither name were included? What form would a rebrand take otherwise?


re. the Blues - I'm sure they could word the rental contract so that the name "Cardiff Blues" must remain and that changing of the name constitutes a voiding of any agreement between CAC and WRU. Besides, I don't think they'll get the Ponty crowd anyway...

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

The SRU are desperate for private ownership of their two clubs. Is the move for the Dragons and possibly Blues to be under WRU ownership and control purely one of financial necessity?

 

[Bluemoon]

re. the Blues - I'm sure they could word the rental contract so that the name "Cardiff Blues" must remain and that changing of the name constitutes a voiding of any agreement between CAC and WRU. Besides, I don't think they'll get the Ponty crowd anyway...

That's exactly what they will want to do. But these leases tend to be long term. I don't think the Rhondda will follow massively either - a lot because of how far away the arms park is, but also some will never change their teams. Will the WRU agree with you on the other hand? They'll have to move away from the arms park to have true fresh start and hope that both the RCT valleys and Cardiff and the vale will follow... high risk.

The Dragons are worried about the same thing. Like you say they've had Newport removed. But they are worried about a move of stadium, colours and a complete rebrand at the 2020 point, particularly as they own the stadium and that could be used as capital to do such a thing.

 

[Bluemoon]

The SRU are desperate for private ownership of their two clubs. Is the move for the Dragons and possibly Blues to be under WRU ownership and control purely one of financial necessity?

When the 'regions' were created the WRU essentially didn't have the money to forge and run them- hence you had some 'super clubs'. They relied on private investors to put money in. Now those investors have a choice on who they 'sell' the ltd companies to. The regions are generally bleeding money away. Scarlets £1 million loss, Cardiff Blues similar, not sure of dragons figures but they aren't good. Would you want to buy that as an investor based on the lack of income? The WRU are stepping in but there isn't really clarity on the long term plans.

 

[Amiga500]

I see that the Blues deal is off (as you expected Bluemoon).

 

[dullonien]

I see that the Blues deal is off (as you expected Bluemoon).

Probably too big a sticking point with CAC and the negations for a new lease. WRU removing the Newport name from the Dragons probably made them worry that they'd do the same with Cardiff Blues.

Personally can't understand the issue, but they're probably a bunch of self-serving old fogies who care more that it's CARDIFF than having a successful team representing the capital!

 

[Bluemoon]

Probably too big a sticking point with CAC and the negations for a new lease. WRU removing the Newport name from the Dragons probably made them worry that they'd do the same with Cardiff Blues.

Personally can't understand the issue, but they're probably a bunch of self-serving old fogies who care more that it's CARDIFF than having a successful team representing the capital!

Really tricky argument Dullonien, and we really need to see it from all sides of all of the argument, of which there are many. I think you're right in that a lot of the people who are taking a strong position for this are the older members of CAC, but there is a general feeling at the Arms Park that the rugby needs to remain there, no matter what the team is called.

There are those who want Cardiff Blues to fail in the hope a RCT Valleys region will appear and spout the 'lack of engagement with he region' argument, of which there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. There are those who want the region to be called something else or just Blues. There are those who want Cardiff to go back to a club and push that rather than appease those who may not even come along. There are those who just want the current model to fail to say I told you so. The latter here are very vocal on social media. They forget that if that happens, the WRU can't afford to run it all and their track record of managing finance and relationships with regions are poor.

What it boils down to at the moment is that no one has done any market research or real engagement with stakeholders at all. You wouldn't want to change the name of the team in the hope or assumption that others will suddenly want to come in their droves, and that has been a mistake that has been continuously been made since the conception of these teams. The WRU are now, in my opinion, doing this with Gwent rugby and it isn't going to work.

I am strongly against WRU ownership no matter what happens, the Dragons situation (amongst others) currently highlighting why. Their are too many gentlemen on the board who are heavily politicised, have strong views as they represent their own semi pro club, and the whole thing would break down quickly through arguments, underhand decisions and mismanagement. Also, they don't have the long term finances or expertise to do so.

 

[welshglory]

There is just something rotten in Welsh domestic rugby. The fact that the Ospreys have been a representative region for so long, had the 2nd highest selling shirt behind Munster for ages, give away incredibly cheap season tickets, and yet barely get crowds of 8k says something. I think professional rugby just isn't an entertainment product in Wales. The young generation really couldn't give a toss about regional rugby, its all about football, and there isn't enough old fans who have gravitated towards the regions from the old clubs. The Irish have tapped into tribalism with the Provinces, and Glasgow well they're getting 7k not exactly amazing, despite all the hype surrounding them.

 

[Amiga500]

Bernard Jackman into the Dragons as head coach.

Good move IMO. Did a lot with Grenoble on a shoe-string.