World political debate -the return

[tituslechmakus]

With the actual events that are taking place in israel/palestin, i think our debate had to be back.



What do you think of that civil war between fatah and hezbollah ??? who do you think is wright is that war ? I'd like you to respond honestly, and more, free of any influence (like TV analysis for example). just taking the facts reported and not all the explanation given by our politicaly influenced TV.



I personally think Hezbollah is wright in that, despite the fact that our governments are for the Fatah .... I think there fight is the same as french resistance in WW2, fighting for the freedom of their country. If we call it terorism, what could have the nazis said of french resistance methods at their times. i think that we are too influenced by our "morality" and everyone in our countries think we are "the goods". I'm not muslim (for those who wondered, i'm white living in a mountain and 10 generation of farmers ...) but i'm looking for the facts ... and looking tv with a lot of distance on the informations delivered.



Take their seat for a second ... what would you do in such a case : your land is given by a foreigner to someone else. wouldn't you fight to take it back ? thats exactly what they do ...

 

[O'Rothlain]

I think Hezbolah are in the wrong. If there is ever a chance for peace in that area, it has nothing to do with the Hezbos.
They're idiots too. Running into government buildings and shooting them up and destroying all the furnishings and windows. If they truly take power, they'll have to either rebuild the buildings, or hide in caves or something. It's retarded. I find it hard for any Western person to take sides with Hezbolah, as they hate you and everything you alledgedly stand for.
Personally I support the existence of Israel. Now, they are surrounded on both sides by Hezbolah who refuse to acknowledge their existence. This puts them and the countries that are their allies in a tough position.
One of my former bosses lives in Lebanon. According to him, a large percentage of people were actually thankful for what Israel did earlier. Hezbolah are thugs.

 

[tituslechmakus]

I think Hezbolah are in the wrong. If there is ever a chance for peace in that area, it has nothing to do with the Hezbos. i agree they are just here to fight
They're idiots too. Running into government buildings and shooting them up and destroying all the furnishings and windows. If they truly take power, they'll have to either rebuild the buildings, or hide in caves or something. It's retarded. These methods are what you call terorism but are the same as we did in WW2 to fight germans, hezbola couldn't govern the country correctly, but braking the government building is a way to disorganize the country.

I find it hard for any Western person to take sides with Hezbolah, as they hate you and everything you alledgedly stand for. i don't like them eighther but i'm more fed up with that western f***** thing of everything for money, just **** on others. Do you know how they see us there ... its not quite the same as you see western countries !!! they just see us as invaders coming only for money and control of everything. btw comunism is also **** !!!!
Personally I support the existence of Israel. Now, they are surrounded on both sides by Hezbolah who refuse to acknowledge their existence. This puts them and the countries that are their allies in a tough position. Yep but there is a problem, israel is only 50 years old where palestinian have been living there for +2000 years. we just came in 1948 and f***** them of there to create a country for the persecuted jewish ppl. Jewish ppl that are now using methods a bit abusiv. They just have an army they economically can't afford... Palestinians just want their land back and fight for it ! thats why they don't acknowledge the existence of israel


One of my former bosses lives in Lebanon. According to him, a large percentage of people were actually thankful for what Israel did earlier. Hezbolah are thugs. Naaah its not so simple with lebanon ... Syria is involved in that conflict and supports hezbs in that mess. Syria are defenetly m*****f****, using saddams methods. in that conflict, israelian might be right.
[/b]

but don't be angry with me mate, i'm just giving another point of view and i apreciate to be able to argue with you on such a subject. quite funny how our points of view are different and how we fight with words to defend them

Anyway that is freedom (of expression). Power of words is sometime bigger than power of weapons

 

[O'Rothlain]

Yeah...
Well, I'm not angry...just expressing my thoughts...don't worry.
I know Israel has only "existed" for 50 years. But the truth is it has always existed. I know it f___ed over the Palestinians. But, look at what Israel has accomplished in the last 50 years versus any other nation in that region. They actually do something with what they have...they're productive.
This is the same fight that has been going on since the crusades. I believe the Jews should have control of Israel and Jerusalem...However, I think they should allow Christians and Muslims to co-exist and share in the Holy Sites.

 

[wigan_rlfc]

Thought it Was Fatta and Hamas, not Hezbollah, aren't Hezbollah Lebanese?

 

[tituslechmakus]

Yeah...
Well, I'm not angry...just expressing my thoughts...don't worry.
I know Israel has only "existed" for 50 years. But the truth is it has always existed. I know it f___ed over the Palestinians. But, look at what Israel has accomplished in the last 50 years versus any other nation in that region. They actually do something with what they have...they're productive.
This is the same fight that has been going on since the crusades. I believe the Jews should have control of Israel and Jerusalem...However, I think they should allow Christians and Muslims to co-exist and share in the Holy Sites.
[/b]

i do think too that they should have the control of isreal but the problem is the invasion of cis jordania and the colonization of the palestinian teritories.

 

[BokMagic]

***us, I hear what you`re saying, and I respect your point of view, but I do disagree mate.

The problem facing Israel at the moment is that even though they want to withdraw from the occupied territories on boh the Palestinian and Lebanese sides, they do need that buffer zone for their own protection and security.

Look what happened when they withdrew from the West Bank- a whole group of Hamas soldiers just moved into the territory and started firing away with rockets at Israeli territory. And look at what happened during the whole Hisbollah crisis in Lebanon- if Hisbollah was really so concerned for the plight of the average Lebanese, they surely wouldn`t have held civilians as human shields. And yes, that did happen, even though it wasn`t widely reported. Just like the 1,000`s of mortars fired off at Israeli territory during the whole war.

Look, my personal viewpoint is this- as long as groups like Hamas in the Palestine authority remain, there can be no peace in the middle east- they are an organisation that has stated on numerous occasions that they won`t be satisfied ntil the state of Israel no longer exists. The only chance for peace is for the moderates on both sides of the coin- both the Israeli and Palestinian side- can come together, talk and both parties compromise, instead of killing each other. Because one revenge attack only results in another revenge attack.

I know it sounds impossible, but it did happen over here in SA. Before the 1992 elections, the moderates of both the old government and the ANC got together and talked things through. Sure there were radical elements who wanted nothing more than completely destroying the other, but in the end it took 2 great leaders- FW De Klerk and Nelson Mandela- to sit down and talk a way to a peaceful election and transition.

 

[O'Rothlain]

Thought it Was Fatta and Hamas, not Hezbollah, aren't Hezbollah Lebanese? [/b]

Ahhh...my bad...I kept saying Hezbollah like a freakin' idiot. Thanks for the correction...you are right.

***us, I hear what you`re saying, and I respect your point of view, but I do disagree mate.

The problem facing Israel at the moment is that even though they want to withdraw from the occupied territories on boh the Palestinian and Lebanese sides, they do need that buffer zone for their own protection and security.

Look what happened when they withdrew from the West Bank- a whole group of Hamas soldiers just moved into the territory and started firing away with rockets at Israeli territory. And look at what happened during the whole Hisbollah crisis in Lebanon- if Hisbollah was really so concerned for the plight of the average Lebanese, they surely wouldn`t have held civilians as human shields. And yes, that did happen, even though it wasn`t widely reported. Just like the 1,000`s of mortars fired off at Israeli territory during the whole war.

Look, my personal viewpoint is this- as long as groups like Hamas in the Palestine authority remain, there can be no peace in the middle east- they are an organisation that has stated on numerous occasions that they won`t be satisfied ntil the state of Israel no longer exists. The only chance for peace is for the moderates on both sides of the coin- both the Israeli and Palestinian side- can come together, talk and both parties compromise, instead of killing each other. Because one revenge attack only results in another revenge attack.

I know it sounds impossible, but it did happen over here in SA. Before the 1992 elections, the moderates of both the old government and the ANC got together and talked things through. Sure there were radical elements who wanted nothing more than completely destroying the other, but in the end it took 2 great leaders- FW De Klerk and Nelson Mandela- to sit down and talk a way to a peaceful election and transition.

[/b]

I agree!

 

[tituslechmakus]

Thought it Was Fatta and Hamas, not Hezbollah, aren't Hezbollah Lebanese? [/b]

Shame on me you're right ... i don't know why i've been saying hezbola !!! of course its hamas. thanks for the correction

***us, I hear what you`re saying, and I respect your point of view, but I do disagree mate.

The problem facing Israel at the moment is that even though they want to withdraw from the occupied territories on boh the Palestinian and Lebanese sides, they do need that buffer zone for their own protection and security.

Look what happened when they withdrew from the West Bank- a whole group of Hamas soldiers just moved into the territory and started firing away with rockets at Israeli territory. And look at what happened during the whole Hisbollah crisis in Lebanon- if Hisbollah was really so concerned for the plight of the average Lebanese, they surely wouldn`t have held civilians as human shields. And yes, that did happen, even though it wasn`t widely reported. Just like the 1,000`s of mortars fired off at Israeli territory during the whole war.

Look, my personal viewpoint is this- as long as groups like Hamas in the Palestine authority remain, there can be no peace in the middle east- they are an organisation that has stated on numerous occasions that they won`t be satisfied ntil the state of Israel no longer exists. The only chance for peace is for the moderates on both sides of the coin- both the Israeli and Palestinian side- can come together, talk and both parties compromise, instead of killing each other. Because one revenge attack only results in another revenge attack.

I know it sounds impossible, but it did happen over here in SA. Before the 1992 elections, the moderates of both the old government and the ANC got together and talked things through. Sure there were radical elements who wanted nothing more than completely destroying the other, but in the end it took 2 great leaders- FW De Klerk and Nelson Mandela- to sit down and talk a way to a peaceful election and transition.

[/b]

I also agree with you. unfortunatly isreal shot a bullet in their own feet. The only chance they had to stop the crisis was Yitzhak Rabin but a morron jew integrist just killed him ... i know that moderates and open minded ppl are the only chance for the conflict to end.