Will Dylan Hartley ever learn?

[BPM]

Yup just about all his actions have been on club duty rather than national. I also struggle to think of when a ban has really effected his ability to play for country when he's really been in the frame. I'm surprised they haven't tossed him to a lesser club and tried to find a better Hooker.

Well he did miss a home World Cup and a Lions tour (2013) so I think it's fair to say it has affected him on the international stage.

I also have sympathy with Saints. However, even prior to the latest 'incident' Haywood was being picked ahead of Hartley on form so they're not losing as much as you might think ...

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yeah, I'm yet to feel sorry for a player who should be serving a life ban

Life ban? McRae should have been jailed. What he did to ROG was assault. Pure and simple.

 

[Which Tyler]

Life ban? McRae should have been jailed. What he did to ROG was assault. Pure and simple.

Clark too - though I'm loathe to get the law involved for things happening on the rugby pitch.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

How many cases have there been? Other than Simon Devereux I'm struggling to think of many.

 

[McTallshort]

Wasn't there a guy in the lower leagues done for actually popping someones eye ball out it socket?

Otherwise Clarke should be on a life time ban for deliberately breaking someones arm, as for Mcrae there was a rumour ROG tried it on with his wife hence the punching.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I seem to remember a case like that, didn't they take the whole club to court because they wouldn't fess up who did it?

I think when one of the Quinell brothers lost an eye that had the police involved as well

 

[smartcooky]

Wasn't there a guy in the lower leagues done for actually popping someones eye ball out it socket?

Otherwise Clarke should be on a life time ban for deliberately breaking someones arm, as for Mcrae there was a rumour ROG tried it on with his wife hence the punching.

A Whitehaven flanker by the name of Callum Jennings. He got five years suspension... that was back in 2010

 

[Peat]

I seem to remember a case like that, didn't they take the whole club to court because they wouldn't fess up who did it?

I think when one of the Quinell brothers lost an eye that had the police involved as well

Maidstone. Club went to RFU tribunal. Police ruled there was insufficient evidence for prosecution.

 

[RedruthRFC]

How many cases have there been? Other than Simon Devereux I'm struggling to think of many.

Google Gravil vs Carroll, interesting case and more than I can be bothered to explain on a mobile phone keyboard!

 

[ALJ]

To be fair to Hartley, his discipline has always been pretty good for England but you can't help that feel he might blow up at a crucial moment.

Much has been made of his tendency toward violence but just as critical to me was his sending off against Leicester in the Premiership final - no violence, just an idiotic moment of madness.

It didn't used to bother me too much when he was young as I figured he'd mature and it's generally easier to calm aggression than it is to create in a player that lacks it (Sheriden would be a good example for me). But he just doesn't seem to learn and that has to be a worry for any team he plays for.

Whether England need him or not, the chances are we won't have him for the Six Nations so it will be very interesting to see if he makes it back in the side once George has a few games under his belt.

 

[valley commando]

Call him what you want, he's a winner and he follows in a long tradition of hard nosed successful players who perform lamentable actions from time to time.
With him, England are indomitable and second in the world, possibly even first at Twickenham...
Without him they can't even get out of their own pool at their own Rugby World Cup.

Wrong he's a classic example of a loser

- - - Updated - - -

Hartley has helped Rory Best get the lines number 2 jersey and possibly the captaincy if Gats doesnt go for AWJ

 

[smartcooky]

He got six weeks

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38298026

Six Weeks is nowhere near enough given his appalling record of thuggery. Only one week added on for his previous form? Really? What a gutless cop-out by the judiciary. Yet another lost opportunity to send a real message that thugs won't be tolerated in the game.

How convenient that it was just enough to allow him to play in the opening match of the Six Nations. I smell a rat at the highest levels of the European game.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gatland said it doesn't rule him out of the lions and doesn't rule him out of the lions captaincy.
Can't wait for the delicious tears when he leads the lions to a series win in NZ.

 

[j'nuh]

He got six weeks

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38298026

Six Weeks is nowhere near enough given his appalling record of thuggery. Only one week added on for his previous form? Really? What a gutless cop-out by the judiciary. Yet another lost opportunity to send a real message that thugs won't be tolerated in the game.

How convenient that it was just enough to allow him to play in the opening match of the Six Nations. I smell a rat at the highest levels of the European game.

Not exactly:

• Considered mid point in regards to severity: +5 weeks
• Poor discipline record: +2 weeks
• Admitting guilt: -1 week

A 40% increase in the sentence because of previous is actually fairly substantial. Then the smallest possible meaningful reduction from admitting guilt. Not really sure what there is to argue with there.

http://www.epcrugby.com/news/34283.php#.WFGCo9KLTAU

 

[McTallshort]

He got six weeks

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38298026

Six Weeks is nowhere near enough given his appalling record of thuggery. Only one week added on for his previous form? Really? What a gutless cop-out by the judiciary. Yet another lost opportunity to send a real message that thugs won't be tolerated in the game.

How convenient that it was just enough to allow him to play in the opening match of the Six Nations. I smell a rat at the highest levels of the European game.

Yes it's all a big conspiracy to keep the most evil players in international rugby. It's all decided by a group of mainly English and French blazers who met before every full moon in an underground lair. It was this same group that ordered officials not to ever penalise Richie MaCaw for being off side.

 

[Peat]

What J'nuh said. Its a standard ban. That the judiciary is fairly weak is not unique to this case.

There is no rat.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I doubt many England fans are pleased nonetheless

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Very lucky boy. Shame, as we probably won't see George start now.

 

[j'nuh]

I doubt many England fans are pleased nonetheless

Not at all! I was hoping it would force Jones' hand at giving George a go.

 

[smartcooky]

Yes it's all a big conspiracy to keep the most evil players in international rugby. It's all decided by a group of mainly English and French blazers who met before every full moon in an underground lair. It was this same group that ordered officials not to ever penalise Richie MaCaw for being off side.

Don't you think your'e being a bit OTT here?

And comparing Hartley with McCaw, a player who in 327 matches (148 of which were tests) in a career spanning 15 years, was never red carded, never cited or appeared before the judiciary, is just disingenuous as well as bloody well insulting.

Not exactly:

• Considered mid point in regards to severity: +5 weeks
• Poor discipline record: +2 weeks
• Admitting guilt: -1 week

A 40% increase in the sentence because of previous is actually fairly substantial. Then the smallest possible meaningful reduction from admitting guilt. Not really sure what there is to argue with there.

http://www.epcrugby.com/news/34283.php#.WFGCo9KLTAU

Six weeks is a joke regardless of what you have posted. Hartley used an intentional swinging arm and struck an opponent in the head with it. That is Top End by any definition.

[TEXTAREA]10.4(a) Striking another Player with a hand, arm or fist
LE â€" 2 weeks
MR â€" 5 weeks
TE â€" 8+ weeks

[/TEXTAREA]
Aggravation and mitigation are only guidelines, not hard and fast regulations. I have seen plenty of cases where no mitigation was allowed for an early guilty plea when the player is a known recidivist offender. Case in point, Troy Flavell charged with stamping on an opponent

[TEXTAREA]10.4(b) Stamping/Trampling on an Opponent
LE â€" 2 weeks
MR â€" 5 weeks
TE â€" 9+ weeks[/TEXTAREA]

He was charged Top End. Five weeks were added on for his previously poor disciplinary record, and despite claiming remorse and making an early guilty plea, he got NO mitigation. He was suspended 14 for weeks. That was a NZ judiciary for a domestic match and the suspension ruled him out of contention for selection for the All Blacks (IIRC he missed two tests).