Why SA ?

[QKXV]

If they aren't playing their best side right now, I'd like to see what it actually does look like...The Bokkes are really strong right now.
Just to let you all know, A good friend of mine who's a missionary in Lusaka, Zambia is now a Bokke fan, thanks to me. While they aren't my first team, I don't have a problem turning people on to them.
[/b]

Well this is defenitely going to set the Bok back a few years if it is true what they want to do after the world cup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6745879.stm

outh Africa's rugby union bosses have come under pressure from the country's government to select more black players at Super 14 and international level.

The government's sports committee met with rugby officials on Tuesday to voice its displeasure at the number of black players playing at the top level.

"Sport can't escape the broad picture," said chairman Butana Komphela.

Quotas have been a thorny issue in South African sport since the end of apartheid in 1994.

The South Africa Rugby Union (SARU) does not operate a formal quota system with regard to the national team, although there is an unwritten rule that the Springboks will not field an all-white team.


606: DEBATE
You should choose the best 22 players for the squad and send them out to play the game

CC

South Africa coach Jake White included several black players for the recent 2-0 series win over England, including Bryan Habana, Ricky Januarie, Gurthro Steenkamp and Ashwin Willemse.

Rugby bosses defended their commitment to change, insisting the problem was partly a consequence of the addition of a fifth South African team in Super 14, spreading the number of black players even thinner.

Komphela added: "Sport cannot be excluded from imperatives of empowerment and transformation."

ANC MP Tsietsi Louw said that black players were being held back from reaching their true potential.


I am not happy with the pace of transformation

SARU president Oregon Hoskins

"There is a deliberate political agenda to keep these black players where they are," he said.

"Only three or four will (succeed)."

SARU president Oregan Hoskins agreed there were problems with the current system.

"I am not happy with the pace of transformation," he said.

"We will endeavour to do the best we can in what are sometimes difficult and trying circumstances."

But the committee complained that SARU had been saying similar things for many years.

South Africa's Luke Watson
Watson made his international debut against Samoa

The issue developed a bizarre twist last week, with Hoskins intervening to ensure the selection of white player Luke Watson in the team to face Samoa.

The Stormers flanker is the son of famous anti-apartheid activist Cheeky Watson, a white rugby player who refused to play for the Springboks during the apartheid years.

White has insisted that Luke Watson is too small for international rugby, but politicians have said that he should be considered a black player and given selection preference.

Recent reports in South Africa have suggested a radical change after the World Cup, with speculation that a team consisting of at least 10 black players will be named under a new coach.

White, it is reported, will also be replaced by Peter de Villiers, who would become the Springboks' first black coach with the side captained by Luke Watson.[/b]

That means if we don't manage to win it this year we probably won't win it for a looooong time.

 

[O'Rothlain]

It's a load of racist shite, if you ask me...how does reverse racism solve anything? It should be equality, not special treatment.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

It's politcal correctness, positive discrimination, and any other related term you can think of gone wrong.

I think it's disgusting personally. Obviously I don't condone what went on during apartheid, quite the opposite in fact, but practically reversing the roles solves nothing.

The PC brigade seem unable to grasp the concept that there may not be many black players in the national side at a certain time, because there just aren't many that are up to the required standard.

The worst thing is when you consider that the likes of Bryan Haban have to be considered 'quota players'. Habana would grace any side in the world, yet it doesn't seem to be allowed for him to be picked purely on outstanding ability. Instead he has to be branded one of the 'necessities', no matter how ridiculous that idea is.

 

[shtove]

Equality yeah - but equality of opportunity only. No special favours. Pasting inferior players in is just cack.

But then, how do you bring up the talent from shamefully low levels (assuming it's there, along with the commitment) without doing damage at the top?

Put it another way: in the long run, SA is being forced to go from selecting the best from a population of 5 million, to selecting the best from a population of 40 million. How many RWCs is that going to add???

Judging by last week's performance against Samoa, the Boks are only beginning to adapt (12 years after the Victory ). Habana is a great player - but he should also bring crucial changes in attitude.

Boerwerst is great. Some mad SA guy used to serve it up at Galwegians matches in the middle of the Atlantic winter.

 

[BokMagic]

Yes it absolutely is, BUT that last report on the new, transformed, 10.5 players-of-colour-irrespective-of-merit scenario won`t happen. For the simple reason that the politicians, uhm sorry administrators, running SA rugby are actually all educated men. Sure, some of our good friends like the Stofile brothers might toe the socialistic party line, but deep down they`re more capitalists than me.

Let`s face it, the Stofiles of this world have become accustomed to being kept in a certain style. No JC Le Roux sparkling wines like the rest of us common plebs, please. No, they prefer the real deal, the Moet&Chandon imported stuff. They also like their crocodile leather slippers and silk nightrobes. Right, now being educated men, they also realise that it is the marketability of the Bok brand that keeps them in said style. And a drop in performance by the Boks will mean decreased revenue from sponsorships, decreased revenue from television rights, decreased revenue from bums on seats at test matches. And of course no new Newscorp deal, the main contributor of revenue to SARU, after the current deal expires in 2010. So that means no caviar on the breakfast toast.

Also, consider the source of this report. The Welsh have their A-grade hack Stephen Jones. And us Saffas have Mark Keohane. Really, I cringe with embarrasment every time that idiot puts pen to paper. Made his name in journalism by bashing every single Bok captain, coach and player. Ever. That was until he was appointed by SARU as Bok media liasion officer in 2002. Suddenly Rudi Straueli became God`s own gift to rugby, according to Keo. Straueli could do no wrong in Keo`s eyes. Not when he handed out 57 Bok caps in 2 years, not when he organised that little exercise in stupidity called Kamp Staaldraad.

But that, of course, was before Keo heard that he`ll be getting the axe shortly after the 2003 RWC. So, what to do? Simple really- bring the whole Staaldraad mess out into the open, a month before the RWC. Get out of it claiming the moral high ground, trying to smell like roses. And of course, sell hard copy.

So this has been the life of Keo after 2003- start bashing Jake White at every opportunity. Revert to type. Start by calling White a hard-headed guy. Start the pick Luke Watson debate. Give a forum to idiots like that Kumalo guy who wanted to confiscate Bok passports, in direct infringement of the SA constitution. And now start another little tirade like this. All in the name of selling papers mate.

Is it any wonder that White wants to meet with pres. Mbeki on Friday, and SARU wants him to go through "official channels"?

 

[QKXV]

Yes it absolutely is, BUT that last report on the new, transformed, 10.5 players-of-colour-irrespective-of-merit scenario won`t happen. For the simple reason that the politicians, uhm sorry administrators, running SA rugby are actually all educated men. Sure, some of our good friends like the Stofile brothers might toe the socialistic party line, but deep down they`re more capitalists than me.

Let`s face it, the Stofiles of this world have become accustomed to being kept in a certain style. No JC Le Roux sparkling wines like the rest of us common plebs, please. No, they prefer the real deal, the Moet&Chandon imported stuff. They also like their crocodile leather slippers and silk nightrobes. Right, now being educated men, they also realise that it is the marketability of the Bok brand that keeps them in said style. And a drop in performance by the Boks will mean decreased revenue from sponsorships, decreased revenue from television rights, decreased revenue from bums on seats at test matches. And of course no new Newscorp deal, the main contributor of revenue to SARU, after the current deal expires in 2010. So that means no caviar on the breakfast toast.

Also, consider the source of this report. The Welsh have their A-grade hack Stephen Jones. And us Saffas have Mark Keohane. Really, I cringe with embarrasment every time that idiot puts pen to paper. Made his name in journalism by bashing every single Bok captain, coach and player. Ever. That was until he was appointed by SARU as Bok media liasion officer in 2002. Suddenly Rudi Straueli became God`s own gift to rugby, according to Keo. Straueli could do no wrong in Keo`s eyes. Not when he handed out 57 Bok caps in 2 years, not when he organised that little exercise in stupidity called Kamp Staaldraad.

But that, of course, was before Keo heard that he`ll be getting the axe shortly after the 2003 RWC. So, what to do? Simple really- bring the whole Staaldraad mess out into the open, a month before the RWC. Get out of it claiming the moral high ground, trying to smell like roses. And of course, sell hard copy.

So this has been the life of Keo after 2003- start bashing Jake White at every opportunity. Revert to type. Start by calling White a hard-headed guy. Start the pick Luke Watson debate. Give a forum to idiots like that Kumalo guy who wanted to confiscate Bok passports, in direct infringement of the SA constitution. And now start another little tirade like this. All in the name of selling papers mate.

Is it any wonder that White wants to meet with pres. Mbeki on Friday, and SARU wants him to go through "official channels"?

[/b]

Fantastic post Bokmagic. Thank you very much, from the bottom of my heart mate. SARU was kaking their pants because of the Mbeki meeting with White weren't they, but I suppose they'll make sure he doesn't embaress them to the President now as they'll make sure he has a escort that can muzzle him if needed.

I suppose Keo.co.za is Mark Keohane's mouthpiece eh? It makes it painfully clear if you look at how the site reported Jake's innocence on that altercation with the journalist earlier in the week. THese guys are gunning for Jake left right and centre, IMO JAke is one hell of a coach having to juggle his personal goals, the Bok teams goals and then having to deal with the idiotic SA media, top that off with the Gov and SARU and you've easily got the most demanding coaching job in the world.

 

[O'Rothlain]

Kamp Staaldraad - One of the most f___ed up things I've ever, ever heard about. McDermot freaking committed suicide after the whole thing...Suicide over a rugby incident.
Why did any of the players go along with it? I wouldn't have! It's freakin' crazy! Seriously, the fact that it's not constantly brought up in conversation baffles me. Seriously...I mean, it's no wonder why the Bokkes were out so early last go 'round. CRAZY.

 

[BokMagic]

Kamp Staaldraad - One of the most f___ed up things I've ever, ever heard about. McDermot freaking committed suicide after the whole thing...Suicide over a rugby incident.
Why did any of the players go along with it? I wouldn't have! It's freakin' crazy! Seriously, the fact that it's not constantly brought up in conversation baffles me. Seriously...I mean, it's no wonder why the Bokkes were out so early last go 'round. CRAZY.
[/b]

The reason why it`s not brought up in conversation by us Saffas is because it`s too traumatic. Definately the lowest low-lite in SARU`s history. I only brought it up to give some clarity on our good friend Keo.

Scary thing is, then-SARU CEO, Rian Oberholzer, was not only perfectly aware of what was happening, he even signed it off. Idiot.

And well, if I was one of the players, I`d have also gone along with it. Bored security guards with LOADED AUTOMATIC FIREARMS tends to make everyone do things they normally won`t. And I`m not kidding- at one stage Joost was trying to leave with his teammates, and the guards fired off live ammo at them......

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotemain'> Kamp Staaldraad - One of the most f___ed up things I've ever, ever heard about. McDermot freaking committed suicide after the whole thing...Suicide over a rugby incident.
Why did any of the players go along with it? I wouldn't have! It's freakin' crazy! Seriously, the fact that it's not constantly brought up in conversation baffles me. Seriously...I mean, it's no wonder why the Bokkes were out so early last go 'round. CRAZY.
[/b]

The reason why it`s not brought up in conversation by us Saffas is because it`s too traumatic. Definately the lowest low-lite in SARU`s history. I only brought it up to give some clarity on our good friend Keo.

Scary thing is, then-SARU CEO, Rian Oberholzer, was not only perfectly aware of what was happening, he even signed it off. Idiot.

And well, if I was one of the players, I`d have also gone along with it. Bored security guards with LOADED AUTOMATIC FIREARMS tends to make everyone do things they normally won`t. And I`m not kidding- at one stage Joost was trying to leave with his teammates, and the guards fired off live ammo at them......

[/b][/quote]
They actually fired off at them? It's a wonder any of those guys still play rugby...it'd give you some sort of shock or complex!
I have to say, one of the most messed up events in sport.

 

[gjwoodq]

Politics & Sports, never a good mix. Leave selection purely to those who deserve it regardless of the colour of their skin....end of story.

 

[SPIDER18]

yeah politics and rugby don't mix look at the luke watson saga as well.

 

[Rockstar]

If there was ever a SA team to win a World Cup..I would honestly have to say the team we have going to the World Cup is that team!

Butch James!!!

 

[Commander Jaco]

It makes me mad when I think of this, the whole SA government is contradicting them selves over and over , if they want no discriminations based on race then why do I ask ,why do they do these things, quota players Affirmative Action in workplaces all kinds of discrimination going on, this is not democracy it is a turned around apartheid

 

[MerckZ]

Transformation is such a disgusting word. It shouldn't be about transforming the team, it should be about inclusion - and that is clearly happening. Politics and sport are like Israelis and Palestinians, they don't mix. If the best players are white, select white players. If a good enough black player comes along, include him. If not, meh, the team is white.