why did the north hemisphere teams play so badly?

[Fushitsusha]

I'd love to see a NH XV v SH XV...

Possible Southern Hemisphere XV -

1. Roncero
2. Smit
3. Hayman
4. Matfield
5. Vickerman
6. Burger
7. McCaw
8. Maka
9. Du Preez
10. Carter
11. Habana
12. Giteau
13. Mortlock
14. Howlett
15. Latham

16. Mealamu
17. Woodcock
18. Williams
19. Smith
20. Pichot
21. Hernandez
22. Steyn/Rococoko/Corleto/McAlister/Tuilagi/Delasau.............

 

[jimmy44]

My feeling is that the SH are just better all round sportsmen. They somehow have a better sports brain and they macth this with first class physicality and skill.

From what I see they handle the ball better, are more skillful, fitter, more powerful but at the same time more astute and clever at the game of rugby. They also have a more competitive spirit and a huge sense of self belief, particularly the Aussies.

Looking at the NH teams, especially England, is like watching a rugby team running through treacle. Everything is so slow and laboured, there's indecision in the backs, slow ball, lack of game plan. In the run up to the 2003 world cup I really beleived the gap between NH and SH had closed, but I'm afraid this time round its as big a gulf as ever.

Have a read of Martin Johnstone's autobiography to get a good insight into why the NH is falling so far behind. He gives a very insightful and honest opinion into the problems the NH has had in adapting to the professional game.

 

[rico]

Possible NH XV

1. Jones
2. Bruno
3. Vickery
4. Cockbain
5. Kay
6. Charvis
7. Nyanga
8. Dallaglio
9. Elissalde
10. Wilkinson
11. S. Williams
12. Henson (if he was fit)
13. O' Driscoll
14. Dominici
15. Robinson/Lewsey/ maybe even Paterson

could also include - more good French players, italians if you want.

could include ppl like Skrela and Clerc, who have been playing awesomely. but i checked a few favs like Henson in there.

My back 3 do seem a little small though. with williams and dominici both being smaller wingers. so i gave options for a fullback with a little more meat than robinson.

i kinda just put down, without much thought. but it looks like a fair Northern hemisphere side.

No idea how they'd go though.

Hopefully well. I hate whitewashes.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

The NH XV above could only have been put together by someone with no idea about NH rugby. I'm sorry, but some of those players aren't even playing for their country, nevermind being selected for a representative side.

The fact you think Dallaglio is the best 8 north of the equator sums it up for me.

 

[melon]

The NH XV above could only have been put together by someone with no idea about NH rugby. I'm sorry, but some of those players aren't even playing for their country, nevermind being selected for a representative side.

The fact you think Dallaglio is the best 8 north of the equator sums it up for me. [/b]

YEAH!!! WHERE'S CHABAL???!!!

Or is he coach, manager, psychologist and media realtions manager (among other things of course)?

 

[rico]

<div class='quotemain'> The NH XV above could only have been put together by someone with no idea about NH rugby. I'm sorry, but some of those players aren't even playing for their country, nevermind being selected for a representative side.

The fact you think Dallaglio is the best 8 north of the equator sums it up for me. [/b]

YEAH!!! WHERE'S CHABAL???!!!

Or is he coach, manager, psychologist and media realtions manager (among other things of course)?
[/b][/quote]

lol.
the team i chose is pretty fair.

anyways... i couldnt really make up my mind for alot of those positions, pretty much cos the NH sucks.

poor guys wont even make the final i think.

but in saying that, i really hope you guys get better.
I am not a fan of whitewashes.

As long as Shane Williams is in a Northern Hemisphere side, you cant really go wrong.

 

[Ripper]

Unless you line him up against Fijians who happen to be stronger, faster and taller than him and wear black shirts. Than all he is good for is a prop in a try scoring celebration as you bounce the ball off his head.

 

[jawmalawm24]

That or try to get him to run it up to Ali Williams or Rico Gear again lol.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

lol.
the team i chose is pretty fair.
[/b]

According to who?



I mean come on, Brent Cockbain isn't even the best lock in Swansea, nevermind Wales.

 

[waynesdodgytemperament]

My feeling is that the SH are just better all round sportsmen. They somehow have a better sports brain and they macth this with first class physicality and skill.

From what I see they handle the ball better, are more skillful, fitter, more powerful but at the same time more astute and clever at the game of rugby. They also have a more competitive spirit and a huge sense of self belief, particularly the Aussies.

Looking at the NH teams, especially England, is like watching a rugby team running through treacle. Everything is so slow and laboured, there's indecision in the backs, slow ball, lack of game plan. In the run up to the 2003 world cup I really beleived the gap between NH and SH had closed, but I'm afraid this time round its as big a gulf as ever.

Have a read of Martin Johnstone's autobiography to get a good insight into why the NH is falling so far behind. He gives a very insightful and honest opinion into the problems the NH has had in adapting to the professional game.



Oh really?



One NH side in the final, if SA don't bottle it at least you'll have an SH team in the final.

I know argentina are in the SH, but you don't regard them as a proper SH team, do you?

I think today we've proved there is no real gulf between the hemispheres, I'm sure you'll find all sorts of excuses for your teams losing, as we would, but it seems the ability to deal with pressure in a sporting enviroment is shared between only a few people, notably not the australian scrum and the new zealand back row.

Perhaps the SH teams are technically more gifted than the NH, certainly the Pacific Islanders are, but considering the mess we've made of the england team for the last four years, and the constantly changing france team, it seems to me that SH teams aren't as tacticallly astute as they should be.

It's always an easy option to blame this on the manager, maybe it'll be better in four years when your boys have got a bit of Heineken cup experience. That does leave the Aussies stuffed, though.

What a reassuring thought

 

[HOMERJ]

This weekend kind of throws this theory out the window! Appears that the SH is not that far ahead of the NH if at all

 

[36crazyfist]

...while the SA derby was a bit of a shambles... [/b]

agreed, but still you can't judge a league on the basis of one final?

ok, rugby is a team sport, not individual, but individuals can make one hell of a difference...

2006

* IRB International Player of the Year: Richie McCaw (New Zealand)
* IRB International Team of the Year: New Zealand
* IRB International Coach of the Year: Graham Henry (New Zealand)
* IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Josh Holmes (Australia)
* IRB International U21 Player of the Year: Lionel Beauxis (France)
* IRB International Sevens Team of the Year: Fiji
* IRB International Sevens Player of the Year: Uale Mai (Samoa)

2005

* IRB International Player of the Year: Daniel Carter (New Zealand)
* IRB International Team of the Year: New Zealand
* IRB International Coach of the Year: Graham Henry (New Zealand)
* IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Isaia Toeava (New Zealand)
* IRB International U21 Player of the Year: Tatafu Polota-Nau (Australia)
* IRB International Sevens Team of the Year: Fiji
* IRB International Sevens Player of the Year: Orene Ai’i (New Zealand)

2004

* IRB International Player of the Year: Schalk Burger (South Africa)
* IRB International Team of the Year, in association with Sodexho: South Africa
* IRB International Coach of the Year: Jake White (South Africa)
* IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Jeremy Thrush (New Zealand)
* IRB International U21 Player of the Year in association with Waterford Crystal: Jerome Kaino (New Zealand)
* IRB International Sevens Team of the Year: New Zealand
* IRB International Sevens Player of the Year: Simon Amor (England)[/b]

since 2003 after england won, only 2 out of a possible 21 awards went to the NH.

Now if we have a look on the calendar of matches in a year for a NH player compared to a SH one, this one is more than double loaded. Many people here indicate that it have a non-negligeable influence.[/b]

don't really get coverage, only the big matches in the later parts of the heineken cup.

seeing how most disagree on why, at least we agree something is wrong. SH finished top in all the pools, so at the moment it's not looking good for NH...
[/b]

i swallow my words... well done england and france... so we'll have a nh vs sh final after all...

 

[Crackdown]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> The NH XV above could only have been put together by someone with no idea about NH rugby. I'm sorry, but some of those players aren't even playing for their country, nevermind being selected for a representative side.

The fact you think Dallaglio is the best 8 north of the equator sums it up for me. [/b]

YEAH!!! WHERE'S CHABAL???!!!

Or is he coach, manager, psychologist and media realtions manager (among other things of course)?
[/b][/quote]

lol.
the team i chose is pretty fair.

anyways... i couldnt really make up my mind for alot of those positions, pretty much cos the NH sucks.

poor guys wont even make the final i think.

but in saying that, i really hope you guys get better.
I am not a fan of whitewashes.

As long as Shane Williams is in a Northern Hemisphere side, you cant really go wrong.
[/b][/quote]
:lol2tn:
It's idiots like you that tend to make me feel spite instead of commiseration, we sucked so bad that you're on your way home? Time to man up methinks. The Shane Williams bit cracks me up especially, have you ever watched the NH's leagues?

From those awards can we deduce that the IRB is biased towards the SH?

 

[36crazyfist]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> The NH XV above could only have been put together by someone with no idea about NH rugby. I'm sorry, but some of those players aren't even playing for their country, nevermind being selected for a representative side.

The fact you think Dallaglio is the best 8 north of the equator sums it up for me. [/b]

YEAH!!! WHERE'S CHABAL???!!!

Or is he coach, manager, psychologist and media realtions manager (among other things of course)?
[/b][/quote]

lol.
the team i chose is pretty fair.

anyways... i couldnt really make up my mind for alot of those positions, pretty much cos the NH sucks.

poor guys wont even make the final i think.

but in saying that, i really hope you guys get better.
I am not a fan of whitewashes.

As long as Shane Williams is in a Northern Hemisphere side, you cant really go wrong.
[/b][/quote]
:lol2tn:
It's idiots like you that tend to make me feel spite instead of commiseration, we sucked so bad that you're on your way home? Time to man up methinks. The Shane Williams bit cracks me up especially, have you ever watched the NH's leagues?

From those awards can we deduce that the IRB is biased towards the SH?
[/b][/quote]

not really. think it's the same as the south africans crying foul over the small number of aussies that's been cited through out the tournament. it's down to personal bias.

if you look at the latest IRB nominations for player of the year you see that only one NH player is in there. that again will say a lot.

...Argentina centre Felipe Contepomi, New Zealand flanker and 2006 IRB Player of the Year Richie McCaw, South Africa wing Bryan Habana, French centre Yannick Jauzion and Argentina flyhalf Juan Hernandez...[/b]

you could have had a valid point, if the majority of judges on the panel were from the SH, but there is only 4 from the SH, and 6 from the NH.

Francois Pienaar, Michael Jones, Fabien Galthie, Keith Wood, Gavin Hastings, Will Greenwood, Jonathan Davies, Dan Lyle, Federico Mendez and convener John Eales have watched over 80 matches between them and in the 110 hours of action they awarded points to three players in every match.[/b]

end of the day, i think that england and france saved it for the NH, especially after losing one pool game, and the coming back to defeat pool winners, with new zealand obviously being the favourites for the tournament. says a lot about the character of those teams. the england team was hammered by the media, and a lot of fans. but, they just carried on and now with a big smile, saying a well deserved big f*** you to all those who didn't believe they could make it to the semis...

 

[Crackdown]

I don't honestly believe the IRB is biased in that respect but I do think they often don't have the game's best interests at heart (money making exercises anyone?) - just playing devil's advocate there.

 

[stormmaster1]

I don't honestly believe the IRB is biased in that respect but I do think they often don't have the game's best interests at heart (money making exercises anyone?) - just playing devil's advocate there. [/b]

True. The games best interests would have been served by icluding Argentina in meaningful competition and holding a world cup in Japan.

 

[Malherbe]

everybody said they were going to win before the start of the world cup... thats why i think, too much pression

 

[hiclasshooka]

Last Sunday, having just seen England dismiss the Wallabies, I remember thinking 'so much for Southern dominance'. And then the French fried the ABs. So all that talk early in the tournament about the SH taking the game to a whole new level turned out to be just talk. As much as I would have liked it to be true.

 

[MartinJohnson]

The Southern hemisphere teams have greater athleticism and ball carrying ability. What they don't have is bottle.

The mental strength of the english and in particular one Jonny Wilkinson is something to behold. They will never surrender.

 

[Klarkash-ton]

The Southern hemisphere teams have greater athleticism and ball carrying ability. What they don't have is bottle.

The mental strength of the english and in particular one Jonny Wilkinson is something to behold. They will never surrender.
[/b]

Neither the All Blacks or Australia 'surrendered'. They fought to the last. Just like Wales, Scotland, and Ireland.

The IRB announcements were made before the quarter finals. Unfortunately NH teams weren't showing any form up to that point. It's as simple as that. No conspiracy.

BTW this thread wasn't a snarky SH thread, it was started by a despondent NH fan after the early tournament form shown by his team.