Who's better? Lomu or Savea?

[Shaggy]

No offense to You but this sounds like every other journalist who has wrote about Lomu's abilities and didnt really understand anything about athletic physiology. How is it that Lomu was the fastest over 10m in All Blacks (probably the fastest over 40 and the 100 until Howlett came along) have arguably the best swerve and side step ( taking into consideration the distance he was able to get off either foot) and be considered to have poor agility? or the inability to turn and sprint? based on his workout videos he has immense core stability and strength and as witnessed when he ran great explosive power off his first few steps.

I think the problem was his fitness. Like Tietjens and John Hart stated in "Anger Within" He was not able to train like other players, His body simply couldn't complete Fitness and Gym programs set out by coaches. Lomu would push himself and never gave up, But could not meet the demands as far as the times to complete certain exercises.

As far as the kicking I was referring to the members who were commenting on Lomu's ability under the high ball, it simply wasnt a skilled required when He was playing. I do agree Savea is an awesome talent, But I dont think any player to date had the ability Lomu did as far as genetic potential. Lomu growing up under the currect coaching would have had to develop different skills. Its a shame the NZRU and public don't seem to know what they had or have.

No offence taken, we are just voicing opinions here, and my comment regarding Lomu and the ball being kicked behind him, was just from what I remember seeing at the time.

Regardless of the reason - I say it was his size and inability to turn quick enough, and you say fitness issues, either one are a factor on the quality of his play, and are relevant to a comparison.

Comparing is a pretty futile exercise anyway, as there's no way to determine who is better

 

[Icemn]

For me Christian Cullen is better than Lomu and Savea together

Oy! give this man a bells :buddies:

 

[dat boy boothy]

Lomu

 

[IKALETAHI]

A playlist of rare clips beside tries for those who never really grew up watching Jonah Lomu

https://www.youtube.com/user/LasGarzas11/playlists

worth a watch

 

[Zed]

One of the main reasons Lomu did as well as he did was because he was playing at a time when rugby was only just turning professional. I think he debuted for the ABS when rugby was still amateur and a lot of his opposition wings were 40, 45kg lighter than him e.g Tony Underwood. That’s like some of us playing against 11 year old boys. Doesn’t matter how good a tackler you are, when someone is that much heavier than you, plus they’re quick, you are going to struggle to put them down. How would he do in a modern era? I think a healthy Jonah Lomu would be good enough to play S15, but not for the ABs. He had too many shortcomings as a player and would be quickly found out by a switched on opposition in today’s game. Additionally his size, speed and power are no longer unique for an international winger. Players like George North & Savea aren’t much smaller/lighter, so Lomus ability to physically dominate his opposite man would be severely diminished. That said, Lomu played when rugby was much less professional than it ia today, perhaps if he was playing in the modern era and wasn’t sick, all of his shortcomings as a player would be overcome with training and working on his skills etc etc. It’s not rocket science learning how to kick and pass. So perhaps it’s an unfair comparison Lomu vs Savea?

 

[IKALETAHI]

One of the main reasons Lomu did as well as he did was because he was playing at a time when rugby was only just turning professional. I think he debuted for the ABS when rugby was still amateur and a lot of his opposition wings were 40, 45kg lighter than him e.g Tony Underwood. That’s like some of us playing against 11 year old boys. Doesn’t matter how good a tackler you are, when someone is that much heavier than you, plus they’re quick, you are going to struggle to put them down. How would he do in a modern era? I think a healthy Jonah Lomu would be good enough to play S15, but not for the ABs. He had too many shortcomings as a player and would be quickly found out by a switched on opposition in today’s game. Additionally his size, speed and power are no longer unique for an international winger. Players like George North & Savea aren’t much smaller/lighter, so Lomus ability to physically dominate his opposite man would be severely diminished. That said, Lomu played when rugby was much less professional than it ia today, perhaps if he was playing in the modern era and wasn’t sick, all of his shortcomings as a player would be overcome with training and working on his skills etc etc. It’s not rocket science learning how to kick and pass. So perhaps it’s an unfair comparison Lomu vs Savea?

Dont agree there Lomu in the modern era would still be the most explosive athlete. Its Physics no player today or ever have had his Power, thats why hes unique, 118kgs-120kgs the quickest All Black over 10m and hes 100m Times would still have him one of the fastest wingers. Its not rocket science to figure out (Force=MassxAcceleration) that No player has ever been able to move that kind of mass at that speed. Its why players his size dont play like him they cant shift that kind of weight like Lomu did. Its Freakish, unnatural I havnt seen it in any athlete for any sport though I could be wrong.

To say Lomu would not be siccesful with the size of players today just look at Jason Taumalolo in the NRL 6 Ft 3 110Kgs with some footwork and acceleration is a Handful for multiple defenders. Julian Savea 6 Ft 4 108Kgs causes problems for defenders today. Jonah Lomu was 6 Ft 5 118-120Kgs and alot more explosive over 10 meters then both these players. In regards to the skill it takes to play today remember Savea couldnt catch to save his Life his first yr out of 20s so I belive coaching today is alot different in regards to time, professionalism, and priority.

 

[Zed]

Dont agree there Lomu in the modern era would still be the most explosive athlete. Its Physics no player today or ever have had his Power, thats why hes unique, 118kgs-120kgs the quickest All Black over 10m and hes 100m Times would still have him one of the fastest wingers. Its not rocket science to figure out (Force=MassxAcceleration) that No player has ever been able to move that kind of mass at that speed. Its why players his size dont play like him they cant shift that kind of weight like Lomu did. Its Freakish, unnatural I havnt seen it in any athlete for any sport though I could be wrong.

To say Lomu would not be siccesful with the size of players today just look at Jason Taumalolo in the NRL 6 Ft 3 110Kgs with some footwork and acceleration is a Handful for multiple defenders. Julian Savea 6 Ft 4 108Kgs causes problems for defenders today. Jonah Lomu was 6 Ft 5 118-120Kgs and alot more explosive over 10 meters then both these players. In regards to the skill it takes to play today remember Savea couldnt catch to save his Life his first yr out of 20s so I belive coaching today is alot different in regards to time, professionalism, and priority.

Yeah I think Lomu would still be pretty effective. But not as effective as he was when he was playing, because as you said it's simple physics. Back then he was running at guys 40, 50kg lighter than him. Nowadays you rarely get wingers that are under 90kg. There are some exceptions. So in 1995 he'd be facing someone weighing 75kg, 20 years later, he'd be facing someone weighting 100, 110kg. It's not all about weight, but it does make a difference being significantly heavier than your opponent.

 

[nickdnz]

Yeah I think Lomu would still be pretty effective. But not as effective as he was when he was playing, because as you said it's simple physics. Back then he was running at guys 40, 50kg lighter than him. Nowadays you rarely get wingers that are under 90kg. There are some exceptions. So in 1995 he'd be facing someone weighing 75kg, 20 years later, he'd be facing someone weighting 100, 110kg. It's not all about weight, but it does make a difference being significantly heavier than your opponent.

I think this would be a lot more valid if:

A ). His career ended in 1995 rather than being his second year of internationals.
B ). Jonah Lomu didn't consistently run over props such as Phil Vickery or Os du Randt (who still played well into the 2000's).

While he was playing outside backs were really 75kgs either. Rory Underwood as your example was generally around 87kgs, while Tony was 85kgs. In Super Rugby he was playing with the likes of Joeli Vidiri (100kgs), Tana Umaga (100kgs), Ben Tune (96kgs), Doug Howlett (95kgs), Joe Roff (100kgs), Matt Burke (97kgs), Christian Cullen (96kgs), Jeff Wilson (89kgs). In the NH he was up against wingers like Emile Ntamack (94kgs) and later Ben Cohen (100kgs). I think you'd have quite a bit of trouble finding any player Jonah Lomu played against that was 75kgs, never mind on average.

It's true players have gotten bigger and that 110kg wingers are more common. They still tend not to be as tall, big, fast and athletic as Lomu was. Regardless Lomu ran over plenty of big guys - I think it's conveniently going with a common trope saying 'guys are bigger now so he wouldn't be as good' when very clearly he did the same to a lot of big guys - and big guys are still being generally pretty effective today without the attributes of Lomu.