Who's better? Lomu or Savea?

[goodNumber10]

Don't engage him.

^^^^^this. Everyone should just block him and see how long he hangs around wallowing in the stench of his own filth.

 

[SimonG]

Come on, isn't Dan Carter good enough to be in those superstars you mentionned ? He's for me the best fly half ever in rugby history, shortly followed by Wilkinson ! What about Richie Mc Caw ? And Bryan Habana ?

Certainly there are less superstars now than before, I must admit, but why ? Surely because the general level in world rugby has increased, leaving players who were way over others 10 or 20 years ago, less numerous than previously.

Fair comment regards Carter and Wilkinson...they are supreme at what they do, arguably the two best ever in their position. It's similar with McCaw.

However Im really talking about players who have you on the edge of your seat, get the crowd on their feet and get commentators excited with anticipation every time they get the ball in hand. Players blessed with genius. I dont see any in the modern game.

Lomu is certainly the greatest in my lifetime. A barely functioning kidney, unable to go flat out in training or on the field of play due to exhaustion, he conserved energy for the explosive moments when he got ball in hand. It's incredible he had any kind of career never mind one that transcended the sport and made him the first, and to date the biggest, global superstar in Rugby. An extraordinary talent that opposing teams would single out in their pre match gameplan, he took the sport to another level. Never before has a swarm defence been deployed on one player anywhere near the extent it was on Lomu, and never before has one player almost singlehandedly won a Rugby world cup on his own. He faced immense opposition that was far greater than today with both France and Australia infinitely better than they are now.

Why are their less superstars? As I mentioned the game has become more about being as physically bulked up as possible...it's a brutish war of attrition now (Munster are the epitome of this). The low risk forward dominated tactics stifle creativity further...France being the biggest casualty of this new direction in emphasis. Aussies have turned off the sport in their droves in the last 10 years, they demand attacking running Rugby more than the others (again, I believe seeing the contrast with the NRL close up has a lot to do with this). The others will tolerate anything.

 

[psychic duck]

Simon, you're talking shït.

 

[Tony Manx]

Simon, you're talking shït.

Not for the first time!!

 

[SimonG]

:lol: @ this thread.

In a similar vein, who's better...

Pele or Wayne Rooney?
Ali or Klitschko?
Federer or Andy Murray?
Tiger Woods or Colin Montgomerie?


Question...did this fella play today?

Watched another 80 minutes of zilch. Did nothing and complete silence whenever he did get the ball. The games I'm missing where he scores (or does anything of note) are when NZ play against fodder and they run in tries at will. At home against a weakened England in June, against the Argies, Italy etc etc.

The one thing I will say for him, he knows Lomu is on a different planet.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Shane Williams.

Debate over.

 

[Canuck]

In a similar vein, who's better...

Pele or Wayne Rooney?
Ali or Klitschko?
Federer or Andy Murray?

Terrible comparisons

more accurate comparisons:

Pele or Messi
Ali or a prime Mike Tyson
Sampras or Federer

All of which are debatable

I feel like Savea is getting a lot of credit based solely on his current try rate. 29 tries in his first 31 tests is certainly terrific but I've just been going over the records for some other top players and they have similar rates to begin their careers. Habana scored 30 tries in his first 34 tests, Christian Cullen scored 42 tries in his first 49 tests (42 tries in 44 tests if you exclude the weird experiment of him at centre), and Joe Rokocoko scored an incredible 30 tries in his first 26 matches. There is no guarantee that Savea can keep up this scoring rate and if history is any indication he can't.

Interestingly enough I remember how rugby fans around 10 years ago were quick to dismiss comparisons between Rokocoko and Lomu, but I suppose memories of Lomu were still so fresh in people's minds

 

[Rugga-lad]

I think Savea. He's smarter. Rugby is also a mental game as well.

 

[tituslechmakus]

I think Savea. He's smarter. Rugby is also a mental game as well.

Not sure Savea can score 4 tries in a WC semi ! Lomu did it !

But we'll talk about it if Savea gets 15 tries in WC !

 

[j'nuh]

However Im really talking about players who have you on the edge of your seat, get the crowd on their feet and get commentators excited with anticipation every time they get the ball in hand. Players blessed with genius. I dont see any in the modern game

You're telling me that you're Irish and forgetting that Brian O'Driscoll ever existed?

 

[Flyingdolphins]

I think he meant the X factor excitement machine. Like in sevens you had Serevi, Cullen, Caucau, Lomu and William Ryder. In 15's Lomu, Jason Robinson, Larkham, Cullen and the best of them all Caucau.

And out of these all I would say the best 3 are Lomu, Caucau and Cullen because they manged to be x factor excitement machines in both sevens and 15s.

 

[Jaguares]

For me Christian Cullen is better than Lomu and Savea together

 

[ENZED-88]

Terrible comparisons

more accurate comparisons:

Pele or Messi
Ali or a prime Mike Tyson
Sampras or Federer

All of which are debatable

I feel like Savea is getting a lot of credit based solely on his current try rate. 29 tries in his first 31 tests is certainly terrific but I've just been going over the records for some other top players and they have similar rates to begin their careers. Habana scored 30 tries in his first 34 tests, Christian Cullen scored 42 tries in his first 49 tests (42 tries in 44 tests if you exclude the weird experiment of him at centre), and Joe Rokocoko scored an incredible 30 tries in his first 26 matches. There is no guarantee that Savea can keep up this scoring rate and if history is any indication he can't.

Interestingly enough I remember how rugby fans around 10 years ago were quick to dismiss comparisons between Rokocoko and Lomu, but I suppose memories of Lomu were still so fresh in people's minds

There's no guarantee he won't. Thing about Savea is he works on the weak areas of his game and Hanson uses his wingers better then Henry did,so i don't think his game will fall off any time soon ... I think Jeff Wilson was better than the two anyway.

 

[Rock]

lomu or savea

lomu + savea are both obviously much admired + referenced players

savea probably is a more complete player, but has enjoyed development in a greatly more developed professional era.

still there has been nobody quite like lomu. few have had as big an impact on the game as he in a short period.
however, slowly, i think savea + others of his mould are having an impact, at least on opposition, as other teams look to replicate him to match the abs. (we could cite many examples here, but savea ate them!).

we could discuss ab wingers + their context all the way to the world cup, but which time another who deserves comparasion may be on the scene. not someone new, but an accomplished winger who may just reappear in the black jersey blowing away opposition: hosea gear.

 

[Flyingdolphins]

Or Napolioni Nalaga and Vereniki Goneva

 

[IKALETAHI]

It wasnt too long ago that any All Blacks were that great under the High ball after being exposed by South Africa in 2008 when the springboks dominated the All blacks using the High ball. Graham Henry then made catching the High ball a priority at Training. I remember Savea being terrible under the High ball during his first ITM cup campaign. Now saying that No one kicked to Lomu so it wasnt a skill that was required playing when Lomu did. In regards to the try scoring feat it is very impressive but put lomu in any of those positions and he scores them as well. Savea benefits off alot of great inside work to score his tries. To say players are as big as Lomu today I cant think of one RUGBY ATHLETE EVER to be 6 ft 4 118-120kgs and run the 100 in under 11 secs let alone be the fastest player in the team (which Lomu was). That combination of SIZE and SPEED would make him a More powerful player than any current player.

 

[ENZED-88]

It wasnt too long ago that any All Blacks were that great under the High ball after being exposed by South Africa in 2008 when the springboks dominated the All blacks using the High ball. Graham Henry then made catching the High ball a priority at Training. I remember Savea being terrible under the High ball during his first ITM cup campaign. Now saying that No one kicked to Lomu so it wasnt a skill that was required playing when Lomu did. In regards to the try scoring feat it is very impressive but put lomu in any of those positions and he scores them as well. Savea benefits off alot of great inside work to score his tries. To say players are as big as Lomu today I cant think of one RUGBY ATHLETE EVER to be 6 ft 4 118-120kgs and run the 100 in under 11 secs let alone be the fastest player in the team (which Lomu was). That combination of SIZE and SPEED would make him a More powerful player than any current player.

Malo toko, spot on with lomu's power and pace being unmatched by anyone of any era, sad thing is we never got to see him at his best (just like vidiri). Like you said Savea couldn't catch a highball to save his life, credit to him he worked and worked on it and it's now one of his strengths. Lomu pure athletism will be hard to match ever!! People remember him running through teams ( so do I) but also remember him getting on the outside of his opposite and leaving them for dead as he was usually the fastest player on the field. But this debate is a bit premature as we have seen what Lomu has given to the rugby world Savea is yet to show us all he's got to give.

 

[Shaggy]

It wasnt too long ago that any All Blacks were that great under the High ball after being exposed by South Africa in 2008 when the springboks dominated the All blacks using the High ball. Graham Henry then made catching the High ball a priority at Training. I remember Savea being terrible under the High ball during his first ITM cup campaign. Now saying that No one kicked to Lomu so it wasnt a skill that was required playing when Lomu did. In regards to the try scoring feat it is very impressive but put lomu in any of those positions and he scores them as well. Savea benefits off alot of great inside work to score his tries. To say players are as big as Lomu today I cant think of one RUGBY ATHLETE EVER to be 6 ft 4 118-120kgs and run the 100 in under 11 secs let alone be the fastest player in the team (which Lomu was). That combination of SIZE and SPEED would make him a More powerful player than any current player.

I disagree with the remark about kicking to Lomu comment, indeed, they did kick to Lomu (or rather behind Lomu) as they figured out the strengths and weaknesses of his game. While I agree he had power and pace going forward, his size made it difficult for him to turn around when the ball was kicked behind him. For me, Savea's game is more complete when you take attack and defense into account.

 

[theVersatile]

Savea has great skills and technical abilities; and is a damn giant. Lomu had good enough hands and technical; but was the equivalent of a tank strapped to a rocket. With how AB's play today; than Savea's style of play would by the one I go for over Lomu's. If Lomu were to sign for, I don't know, Munster (unlikely); than Lomu would be a better player. Unfortunately; for that to work they'd have to make Lomu maybe a #8. I'm not saying he wouldn't be able to play there.

For AB Rugby, it's Savea. As an overall player' I'd probably say Lomu.

 

[IKALETAHI]

I disagree with the remark about kicking to Lomu comment, indeed, they did kick to Lomu (or rather behind Lomu) as they figured out the strengths and weaknesses of his game. While I agree he had power and pace going forward, his size made it difficult for him to turn around when the ball was kicked behind him. For me, Savea's game is more complete when you take attack and defense into account.

No offense to You but this sounds like every other journalist who has wrote about Lomu's abilities and didnt really understand anything about athletic physiology. How is it that Lomu was the fastest over 10m in All Blacks (probably the fastest over 40 and the 100 until Howlett came along) have arguably the best swerve and side step ( taking into consideration the distance he was able to get off either foot) and be considered to have poor agility? or the inability to turn and sprint? based on his workout videos he has immense core stability and strength and as witnessed when he ran great explosive power off his first few steps.

I think the problem was his fitness. Like Tietjens and John Hart stated in "Anger Within" He was not able to train like other players, His body simply couldn't complete Fitness and Gym programs set out by coaches. Lomu would push himself and never gave up, But could not meet the demands as far as the times to complete certain exercises.

As far as the kicking I was referring to the members who were commenting on Lomu's ability under the high ball, it simply wasnt a skilled required when He was playing. I do agree Savea is an awesome talent, But I dont think any player to date had the ability Lomu did as far as genetic potential. Lomu growing up under the currect coaching would have had to develop different skills. Its a shame the NZRU and public don't seem to know what they had or have.