Who will relegate?

[Getofmeland]

After the 2015 world cup there needs to be a serious look at expanding the prem to 14 teams, bringing in Leeds and Bristol again and freezing relegation for 5 years or so. Doing this will allow the teams in the prem to invest long term, while the teams in the champ can strengthen themselves as well bringing their facilities up to standard etc.

That could be the worse thing for English Club Rugby... The Championship is more competitive than it ever has been, Bristol have been pushed all season by the likes of London Welsh, Cornish Pirates, Bedford and numerous others. I agree the Premiership should be increased to 14 teams, but if this was to happen the number of teams automatically relegated should be increase to 2, and the the Play Off Final would have to be scrapped. On top of that I would make the winner of the Championship automatically promoted and then a playoff between 2nd, 3rd place team to decide who should be promoted.

The next key thing would be get Championship Rugby on TV more regular, get a big name sponsor and start getting some investment into the league. With that revenue we would see an increase in the revenues for the clubs meaning more funding for stadiums and players.

 

[welshglory]

I just think freezing relegation would strengthen both the Prem and Championship. Rugby is a very young pro sport and it isn't financially viable at club level except for maybe France. As Geech said here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/13379325 which is where i got the idea from.

 

[SelimNiai]

I just think freezing relegation would strengthen both the Prem and Championship. Rugby is a very young pro sport and it isn't financially viable at club level except for maybe France. As Geech said here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/13379325 which is where i got the idea from.

He said that while at Bath who at the time weren't looking very good. It won't strengthen anything. You say to clubs like Bedford, Pirates, London Welsh, Leeds that no matter how hard they work they can't be promoted to the top tier of English Rugby because you want the larger sides to strengthen financially at the expense of smaller clubs.

Actually that sounds just like the RFU.

 

[Getofmeland]

He said that while at Bath who at the time weren't looking very good. It won't strengthen anything. You say to clubs like Bedford, Pirates, London Welsh, Leeds that no matter how hard they work they can't be promoted to the top tier of English Rugby because you want the larger sides to strengthen financially at the expense of smaller clubs.

Actually that sounds just like the RFU.

I completely agree with you on this... Its typical RFU Bias towards the big clubs...

 

[welshglory]

And don't get me wrong i think promotion and relegation are great things and really spices things up. But for the good of the jeff i think it would be best to freeze it. I don't see how it helps clubs like Leeds or Bristol gaining promotion and then being relegated the next season when they're already financially crippled. For such a poor sport such as rugby it doesn't mak sense to me, especially when only two/three (if you count Nottingham) teams can be promoted. You might as well just put them all in the first league. If London Welsh/Bedford win the champ nothings going to come of it anyway. When the Championship sides are as strong as the Pro D2 sides in France then you should open it up again.

 

[welshglory]

He said that while at Bath who at the time weren't looking very good. It won't strengthen anything. You say to clubs like Bedford, Pirates, London Welsh, Leeds that no matter how hard they work they can't be promoted to the top tier of English Rugby because you want the larger sides to strengthen financially at the expense of smaller clubs.

Actually that sounds just like the RFU.

Well Bedford, Pirates and London Welsh can't be promoted anyway. Unless their benefactors take massive risks or European rugby gains a massive popularity boost they're never going to have the facilities.

 

[SelimNiai]

And don't get me wrong i think promotion and relegation are great things and really spices things up. But for the good of the jeff i think it would be best to freeze it. I don't see how it helps clubs like Leeds or Bristol gaining promotion and then being relegated the next season when they're already financially crippled. For such a poor sport such as rugby it doesn't mak sense to me, especially when only two/three (if you count Nottingham) teams can be promoted. You might as well just put them all in the first league. If London Welsh/Bedford win the champ nothings going to come of it anyway. When the Championship sides are as strong as the Pro D2 sides in France then you should open it up again.

It's 8 sides who have a chance to get promoted, too many imo but that's a new thread. Pro D2 clubs are as strong as they are because of the prize that promotion is to D1. There is no sport, outside of franchises, that have no promotion or relegation. It's an integral part of a tier type league system.

 

[Getofmeland]

And don't get me wrong i think promotion and relegation are great things and really spices things up. But for the good of the jeff i think it would be best to freeze it. I don't see how it helps clubs like Leeds or Bristol gaining promotion and then being relegated the next season when they're already financially crippled. For such a poor sport such as rugby it doesn't mak sense to me, especially when only two/three (if you count Nottingham) teams can be promoted. You might as well just put them all in the first league. If London Welsh/Bedford win the champ nothings going to come of it anyway. When the Championship sides are as strong as the Pro D2 sides in France then you should open it up again.

But how will they get strong if they don't experience Top Flight Rugby, or teams coming from Top Flight?

Your only as good as your opponents... A lot of the Championship sides learnt a lot from playing the likes of Northampton, Bristol, Leeds, Worcester... Which is why the league is more challenging now than it was when Northampton went down... Bristol and Leeds know that better than anyone... Also look at Exeter, with the right structure they are now looking likely to be in the playoffs...

 

[welshglory]

It's 8 sides who have a chance to get promoted, too many imo but that's a new thread. Pro D2 clubs are as strong as they are because of the prize that promotion is to D1. There is no sport, outside of franchises, that have no promotion or relegation. It's an integral part of a tier type league system.

8 sides? only 3 can if you include Nottingham.

 

[Peat]

It's 8 sides who have a chance to get promoted, too many imo but that's a new thread. Pro D2 clubs are as strong as they are because of the prize that promotion is to D1. There is no sport, outside of franchises, that have no promotion or relegation. It's an integral part of a tier type league system.

A side needs to have facilities of a certain standard to be promoted. Few Championship clubs do and those named I imagine don't. I know London Welsh don't, although it is not inconceivable that in they could negotiate a ground share if promoted.

 

[welshglory]

But how will they get strong if they don't experience Top Flight Rugby, or teams coming from Top Flight?

Your only as good as your opponents... A lot of the Championship sides learnt a lot from playing the likes of Northampton, Bristol, Leeds, Worcester... Which is why the league is more challenging now than it was when Northampton went down... Bristol and Leeds know that better than anyone... Also look at Exeter, with the right structure they are now looking likely to be in the playoffs...

But please tell me can you ever see Bedford, London Welsh etc. ever having the facilities? The main problem with rugby is since clubs are so poor they have to make massive risks to build these better facilities, if they don't gain promotion they're then screwed.

 

[Getofmeland]

But please tell me can you ever see Bedford, London Welsh etc. ever having the facilities? The main problem with rugby is since clubs are so poor they have to make massive risks to build these better facilities, if they don't gain promotion they're then screwed.

Read my post previously about engaging with the league and getting things like sponsorship deals etc... Currently there is NO league sponsorship... which is a major issue IMO... Trying to find info on the RFU Championship is bad enough, give the rights to BBC or something and start getting people watching it.. There is about 10 games a season on Sky Sports, which to be honest is not enough...

The RFU have made no attempts to promote or encourage investment to the league

 

[welshglory]

Read my post previously about engaging with the league and getting things like sponsorship deals etc... Currently there is NO league sponsorship... which is a major issue IMO... Trying to find info on the RFU Championship is bad enough, give the rights to BBC or something and start getting people watching it.. There is about 10 games a season on Sky Sports, which to be honest is not enough...

The RFU have made no attempts to promote or encourage investment to the league

Maybe there is a reason no one wants to sponsor it

 

[Getofmeland]

The only reason there is no sponsorship is because the RFU have done nothing to promote it... The Old League used to have its own website, the Championship is built in to the RFU site... its shocking...

 

[welshglory]

Maybe but who would want to sponsor a league where most teams have stadiums of less than 8,000 capacity

 

[Getofmeland]

You will be surprised... It doesn't have to be a great deal of money to start off with (Not Premiership Sponsorship Figures), but you could put in clauses with increases in attendances and viewing figures...

There's plenty of things that could happen with the league with the right people behind it...

 

[welshglory]

It's 8 sides who have a chance to get promoted, too many imo but that's a new thread. Pro D2 clubs are as strong as they are because of the prize that promotion is to D1. There is no sport, outside of franchises, that have no promotion or relegation. It's an integral part of a tier type league system.

Also because they have big(ish) stadiums and lots of history. Plus rugby is massive in the south of France, maybe rugby isn't as big as well all think at domestic level in the UK

 

[welshglory]

You will be surprised... It doesn't have to be a great deal of money to start off with (Not Premiership Sponsorship Figures), but you could put in clauses with increases in attendances and viewing figures...

There's plenty of things that could happen with the league with the right people behind it...

I guess, i'm just brain storming here. I'm a massive fan of the Jeff, as you can see on my profile i support Sale! I just think after the 2015 world cup, with the increased popularity in rugby a shake up of some kind whatever it is would do some good

 

[SelimNiai]

But how will they get strong if they don't experience Top Flight Rugby, or teams coming from Top Flight?

Your only as good as your opponents... A lot of the Championship sides learnt a lot from playing the likes of Northampton, Bristol, Leeds, Worcester... Which is why the league is more challenging now than it was when Northampton went down... Bristol and Leeds know that better than anyone... Also look at Exeter, with the right structure they are now looking likely to be in the playoffs...

Let's go back to the 2004-2005 season, to a still semi pro Division one and compare Bristol's results against the top sides in that league then and now.

Bristol 43-0 Nottingham
Bristol 25-12 London Welsh
Bristol 37-6 Bedford
Bristol 68-15 Exeter
Bristol 43-3 London Welsh
Bristol 66 - 28 Nottingham

Those are some of the results against the top sides plus Exeter in that season. Now in 2012

Bristol 26-6 Bedford
Bristol 35-33 L. Welsh
Bristol 18-15 Nottingham
Bristol 37-33 Pirates
Bristol 17-18 Pirates
Bristol 17-23 L. Welsh
Bristol 17-15 Bedford
Bristol 35-24 Nottingham

Clear evidence that in the 7 seasons all those teams have improved a hell of a lot over those years. And having watched Bristol in both of those years I an testify to that myself without the above figures. So the continued promotion plus the full professionalising of the Championship has improved everyone. It would be foolish to remove it.

 

[welshglory]

But unless there is sponsorship as Getmeoff says or massive investment in the rest of the clubs. It's going to take a fecking age to get these guys up to standard to be promoted