Who is England 12?

[MrTea_32]

Players like Daley, devoto hill and more will be very promising for the 2019 RWC but Lancaster has his squad now so I can't see to many younger players like that getting a place in the final.squad

 

[MrTea_32]

Cannot see how Tuilagi can possibly be picked to play in the RWC solely on the back of a few warm up matches after such a long injury and proven injury proclivity!

These demands for his return are similar to those for one for Corbs who has done really very little in the games (certainly the ones I have seen) since his return to demonstrate he is the player he was before injury or, indeed, worthy of any automatic selection.

I do hope Lancaster does not select his squad on reputation rather than proven form!



This is the RWC and the time for trying new combinations is long past!!

Exactly it's the RWC and at the moment we have one world class centre with the option injury permitting of having two.
I agree time has passed to other new things which is probably why try certain people haven't had there chance even with great club form but manu is a proven international who can make a big difference.
If you want to play it safe with twelvetrees or burrell then we have no chance.

 

[yaboyjj]

if there is one thing we learnt the last "AI's to 6nations" it's that if we don't get over the gain line/set targets we don't have the creativity to open defences, we don't punch enough with our forwards so it has to come from somewhere.

There is no other back in world rugby who can carry like Tuilagi does at the moment, battering ram or not he has to be in the team as he just sucks defenders in - the question purely comes down to 12 or 13, and that comes down to whether or not we can play a ball handler at 12.

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I think every person on this forum has at some point talked about Daley being brought in, but he just wont' force his way into the squad before the world cup... i don't think he'll ever break through in the current set up.

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Eastmond is done, Unless there is a run of injuries he won't feature again this side of next years summer Tour (is there one?)

I agree that Eastmond is not an option- I was just trying to show that based on the principle of 'no new partnerships' we are left with a couple of dud's imo (harsh yeah- but neither are realistic options tbf). England are going to have to try a new partnership, like it or not- whether that be Barritt- Joseph, 36-Joseph, Slade-Joseph or Hill-Joseph (at least until Manu returns- IF). Based on this premise (that a new partnership is enforced/necessary), you may as well pick the form options, which are- Hill or Slade.

 

[Every Time Ref]

It's more than just a new partnership of its Hill or Slade though, it's a new player to all England's systems and in Slade's case a new position entirely. It will not be either of those, I would guarantee it.

All options are pretty weak - Burrell's consistently poor, 12T horribly inconsistent, Eastmond a midget ... personally I would gamble on Tuilagi at 12; I think Lancaster will go with Barritt.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The best thing about Barritt is at least he is reliable. Dull and uninspiring as a choice but the chance of him having a major ****up is pretty low.

 

[yaboyjj]

The best thing about Barritt is at least he is reliable. Dull and uninspiring as a choice but the chance of him having a major ****up is pretty low.

Yeah- I'd certainly play him above Burrell/36/Farrell, I think if it happens- England need get the wingers coming infield more and taking passes off Ford (preferably big guys too, since Barritt doesn't truck up too well) Nowell/Roko?

 

[Every Time Ref]

True, the chances of him changing the game with a piece of attacking brilliance (or even attacking pretty-good-ness) are identical though

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

True, the chances of him changing the game with a piece of attacking brilliance (or even attacking pretty-good-ness) are identical though

But would having him there with Ford and Joseph be so terrible? They offer flair, he adds backbone to the defence. It's true that Joseph and Ford may then be more heavily marked, but he offered a semi-decent crashball option vs. Australia and if Ford can get him running hard lines off him it shouldn't be too marked a disadvantage (i.e. they wouldn't be totally free to concentrate on the others)- but would it be one that would outweigh the advantage of his defence? I don't know. Who'd be a selector, eh?

 

[Tony Manx]

But would having him there with Ford and Joseph be so terrible? They offer flair, he adds backbone to the defence. It's true that Joseph and Ford may then be more heavily marked, but he offered a semi-decent crashball option vs. Australia and if Ford can get him running hard lines off him it shouldn't be too marked a disadvantage (i.e. they wouldn't be totally free to concentrate on the others)- but would it be one that would outweigh the advantage of his defence? I don't know. Who'd be a selector, eh?

Me and, like Lancaster, would pick Barritt above any one else!!

 

[Every Time Ref]

But would having him there with Ford and Joseph be so terrible? They offer flair, he adds backbone to the defence. It's true that Joseph and Ford may then be more heavily marked, but he offered a semi-decent crashball option vs. Australia and if Ford can get him running hard lines off him it shouldn't be too marked a disadvantage (i.e. they wouldn't be totally free to concentrate on the others)- but would it be one that would outweigh the advantage of his defence? I don't know. Who'd be a selector, eh?

I hate doing it but I have to grudgingly admit it makes sense. It's definitely my second option after Tuilagi (and I wouldn't confidently state that it's definitely worse - Tuilagi at 12 is a risk). And the fact is Barritt would be an improvement on Burrell during the 6N, swapping out maybe slightly better attack (maybe?) for much better defence

 

[Peat]

Burrell definitely has better attack than Barritt. Notably. He's stronger, quicker and has a step. If Barritt could attack as well as Burrell, brain farts and all, he'd never ever have lost his England place.

 

[MrTea_32]

If Tuilagi isn't fit I'd play safe with barritt as my first choice, there's plenty of other backs we now have to offer great attack.
But hopefully manu will make it back

 

[TheSaffycen]

Burrell definitely has better attack than Barritt. Notably. He's stronger, quicker and has a step. If Barritt could attack as well as Burrell, brain farts and all, he'd never ever have lost his England place.

He only ever lost his place because of injury.

 

[MrTea_32]

He only ever lost his place because of injury.

Which worked out well as jj would never have started and we'd still have a mediocre midfield in barritt and burrell / 12t's

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I can't see Lancaster not involving Tuilagi in the team and tbh I doubt he'd put him on the bench, purely because of reputation. A man like Tuilagi isn't someone you leave out of a team, and Lancaster won't. Tuilagi could be in the worst form of his life but it won't matter to him because of who he is. Whether he deserves it or not Tuilagi will be put in as a 12, 13 or 23 at the very least. I'm not saying I agree with any of this, but I truly believe it's what Lancaster will do.

 

[Raggs]

The best thing about Barritt is at least he is reliable. Dull and uninspiring as a choice but the chance of him having a major ****up is pretty low.

Is it low though? Or is it just that missed tackles are easier to spot than missed opportunities to pass? He regularly destroyed our attacking game over the last seasons appearances.

 

[goodNumber10]

Is it low though? Or is it just that missed tackles are easier to spot than missed opportunities to pass? He regularly destroyed our attacking game over the last seasons appearances.

did he?

And compared to who? certainly not 36, Eastmond and Burrell who all squandered scoring opportunities by going alone or giving poor passes.

To be fair our three greatest attacking performances came with Farrell and Barritt (NZ) Farrell and 36 (Italy) and Ford and Burrell (France).

 

[Raggs]

Eastmond has created some beautiful chances with his passing. 36 is so hot and cold it's crazy. Burrell shouldn't even be starting for Saints.

I'm not arguing that Barritt wouldn't be a good choice, he quite possibly would be. It's just I don't buy that his error level is so much lower. Or rather, it's easy to have a very low error level when you don't do much.

I wonder if Bath hadn't gone for Burgess, if Devoto may not have been in with more of a chance. Probably too late for any new name now though. Tuilagi would be my first choice, Barritt/36 next.

 

[goodNumber10]

what beautiful chances has Eastmond created with his passing in an England shirt? actually, what scoring chances has Eastmond created in an England shirt.

I really don't agree with the Barritt does nothing analysis, I think people aren't watching him if they think that.

 

[Raggs]

Barrit does a huge amount in defence, but his attacking instincts ruined some of the English attack in the last AIs.

As for Eastmond, the last NZ game he handed Brown a try on a plate with a lovely flat pass, Brown knocked it on. Freshest one from memory for me.