Who is England 12?

[yaboyjj]

Seriously? so now everyone seriously thinks Farrell is an option at IC?
His kicking from hand has never been great, passing and distribution is flaky at best (can he pass off left hand?), and he's neither going to run over or run around anyone. Ford, Farrell, Joseph would easily be handled by top teams and Joseph would be marked heavily- please tell me you are all joking.

 

[goodNumber10]

But I think they would be more happy to see Burrell and Ford together. Both seem to be poor tacklers, and not the they caused the opposition to move into the back row. Farrell will tackle players behind the gainline and will force them to make decisions, though against Nonu he didn't do well (though he was injured).
Also who knows how we will play if they tell the guys to go out and attack. Faz looked a lot better when he was told to attack against Italy last year or with the Lions.

Remember the smash he put in on Savea

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Seriously? so now everyone seriously thinks Farrell is an option at IC?

No mate, read it again.

What they are saying is he is likely to get game time there either tail end or as a fill in, that he has all the skill sets for it and could do with some work on it/game time there.

His kicking from hand has never been great, passing and distribution is flaky at best (can he pass off left hand?), and he's neither going to run over or run around anyone. Ford, Farrell, Joseph would easily be handled by top teams and Joseph would be marked heavily.

Disagree with all of that but we've done this conversation a million times.

 

[msf]

Farrells defence is similar to Burrells, he makes big hits but also misses quite a lot, so that the only difference would be that Farrell can kick and Burrell can run. Since we have other players who can kick, and a new exciting style, we should go for the running option.

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Good no 10, I know you think Farrell is decent, but I can't believe you think his distribution is anywhere near as good as Ford or Slade's. It might be slightly better than Burrells, but 12trees and Eastmond are definitely better at distributing from 12, so if you wanted that kind of option surely you would go for one of those two?

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I think there are enough round pegs in square holes already in this England side (Robshaw, Watson), there is no need for another. It would be different if you were trying to fit a world-class player into the side, but Farrell is never going to be one of those.

 

[goodNumber10]

Farrells defence is similar to Burrells, he makes big hits but also misses quite a lot, so that the only difference would be that Farrell can kick and Burrell can run. Since we have other players who can kick, and a new exciting style, we should go for the running option.

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Good no 10, I know you think Farrell is decent, but I can't believe you think his distribution is anywhere near as good as Ford or Slade's. It might be slightly better than Burrells, but 12trees and Eastmond are definitely better at distributing from 12, so if you wanted that kind of option surely you would go for one of those two?

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I think there are enough round pegs in square holes already in this England side (Robshaw, Watson), there is no need for another. It would be different if you were trying to fit a world-class player into the side, but Farrell is never going to be one of those.

As I've said it's not what I want it's what I think will happen.

I'd love to see Slade in the set up, if you scan back to last year i was saying Slade should have gone to NZ over Cipriani for the exact reason everyone is saying he should have got squad time in the 6 Nations and was shouted down by the vast majority of people calling for his inclusion now. but i think that ship has sailed for this world cup.

Fazlet is clearly going to either be covering 12 from the bench or as the starting 10 so i'd like him to get more game time there with Sarries that's all - it's not a plea to get him into the team as a 12 and who knows he may turn out to be a solid/good 12 if he plays there for a prolonged period.

That's all, i wouldn't' swap him out for Ford (but i'm certain it will happen).

 

[Tony Manx]

First team selection will be Farrell at 10 and Barritt at 12 subject only to their ability to stand run and kick!! There is no way Lancaster will "gamble" on any other combination!

 

[MrTea_32]

First team selection will be Farrell at 10 and Barritt at 12 subject only to their ability to stand run and kick!! There is no way Lancaster will "gamble" on any other combination!

That would be such a big step backwards after this 6 nations. I hope SL keeps his nerve and stays with this team with just a couple of changes here and there.
Farrell should get time at 12 at saracens and let's see how he progresses there, I wouldn't mind farrell on the bench instead of 12 trees he's a great kicker at goal and if ford is having an off day with the boot farrell could come on at 12 and take over kicking duties.
Does anyone think SL will actually try Tuilagi at 12 or is it just something all.the fans want?

 

[91jmay]

Hello everyone! I think Manu should get the nod at 12, SL seems to want a bigger man there (can argue about Luther fitting that mould , I was disappointed for him in 6Ns and he has struggled defensively for 18 months now, but he was given crash ball role regardless of whether it suits him or not) and Manu when fit is a proven handful for even the Southern Hemisphere sides on his day. Wade should also get a look in for me as his form seems to be coming back, best finisher in the country I would say.

Slade off the bench as a direct replacement for JJ is a nice option. Barritt being the 'break glass' option is perfect description of him. Never been convinced with 12trees and Farrell at 12 is a huge no for me. How can you have a centre that isn't a threat carrying the ball?

 

[Isengard]

All I hope is that Lancaster sees the obvious. England playing the percentages and looking to stop the opposition first and constantly kick for territory are currently a weaker and less effective side than England playing with ball in hand and playing with flair. When he has been forced, by injury, to pick more imaginative and thinking players at centre it's been such a breath of fresh air. I hope to goodness that he is prevented somehow from playing his preferred partnership which I think is negative and heads-down, no offloads - Barritt and Tuilagi. They were dull and boring when played together and offered nothing but brawn. Barritt especially has no go-forward and never offloads, simply taking the tackle and offering nothing in terms of line breaks and invention.

I would take any combination of innovative and penetrative players: Joseph, Slade, 36, etc. I thought the Burrell/36 partnership last year was the best we've had in ages. Sadly I think Lancaster will revert to a safety first, stop them playing then consider our attack approach.

What I would demand though is that he picks a team and sticks with it. Constant tinkering and changing is counter-productive and pointless. Just select your best XV and stick with it. Only change if someone is injured, completely and comprehensively eclipsed by someone else or aged to the point where they have lost their edge. Winning teams do this, but then Lancaster is not a winning coach. We're really splitting hairs in terms of the players he has available. There is not a massive and clear difference. Select two centres and give them the shirt. Play them together until they learn to read each other's game and play naturally and fluidly. Don't substitute them off just because it is 60 minutes or whatever on the clock. Don't pick a pairing and then tinker with it, then tinker again and again. Two players who play together will play better than combinations thrown together every few weeks.

 

[91jmay]

Not sure Tuilagi being called no offloads is correct at all, a good area of his game for me.

 

[Isengard]

Not sure Tuilagi being called no offloads is correct at all, a good area of his game for me.

I'm probably being unfair to him there. He does offload sometimes. What he doesn't do for me though is show much invention. He's a very straightforward player, he bullocks forward and looks for linebreaks by power. He's not going to do anything inventive or novel. Defenders know what they're going to get. I don't dislike Tuilagi but I would much prefer to see him as a substitute to come on as an impact player. What I don't want to see and fear is the plan is the Barritt-Tuilagi pairing which is so uninspiring and dull.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Also why hasn't Devoto been looked at/mentioned ? He is very good with ball in hand but also has a big frame to go with it, 6ft2 and 103kg is pretty big for a guy who's main attributes are his passing/kicking game.

 

[ncurd]

Also why hasn't Devoto been looked at/mentioned ? He is very good with ball in hand but also has a big frame to go with it, 6ft2 and 103kg is pretty big for a guy who's main attributes are his passing/kicking game.

I'm massively biased towards him he's from my hometown. But whilst he's looked adequate for Bath at times he's nowhere near ready for international duty another year or two methinks.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Also why hasn't Devoto been looked at/mentioned ? He is very good with ball in hand but also has a big frame to go with it, 6ft2 and 103kg is pretty big for a guy who's main attributes are his passing/kicking game.

Because he's still maintaining that the's a 10.

He's a centre, but he's not going to play there for Bath, so it'll be a while until he's at the level to be considered internationally.

 

[Tony Manx]

Not trying to be argumentative but look at Lancaster's history.

When has he really gone for new talent except when forced into it?

What chance with the remaining friendlies to come will this cautious man introduce new talent into the team when he cannot bring himself to put Cips on for more than 3 minutes in 5 games @ 10??

He will go back to the old faithfuls if fit and only then go to the second string tried and tested!!

The likes of Slade or Devoto have no chance this RWC!

 

[MrTea_32]

Because he's still maintaining that the's a 10.

He's a centre, but he's not going to play there for Bath, so it'll be a while until he's at the level to be considered internationally.

I think it all depends on what position burgess ends up at for bath. If he stays in the centre then I think devoto needs to change clubs so he's getting regular gametime. I know he is at the moment but like Try_Olyy said he's a centre not a 10, and with ford and Joseph coming back he'll be back on the bench easter Saturday for the next big game.
I'm a big fan of devoto and I think we will see him in an England shirt in the future

 

[goodNumber10]

Not trying to be argumentative but look at Lancaster's history.

When has he really gone for new talent except when forced into it?

What chance with the remaining friendlies to come will this cautious man introduce new talent into the team when he cannot bring himself to put Cips on for more than 3 minutes in 5 games @ 10??

He will go back to the old faithfuls if fit and only then go to the second string tried and tested!!

The likes of Slade or Devoto have no chance this RWC!

Why should he be looking to introduce new talent, especially in a world cup year?

Maybe he just feels he has the right balance to his squad, having completely overhauled it post 2011 world cup and feels he should stick with players as long as they are fit?

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I think it all depends on what position burgess ends up at for bath. If he stays in the centre then I think devoto needs to change clubs so he's getting regular gametime. I know he is at the moment but like Try_Olyy said he's a centre not a 10, and with ford and Joseph coming back he'll be back on the bench easter Saturday for the next big game.
I'm a big fan of devoto and I think we will see him in an England shirt in the future

agree with this, for me he is a 12 or 13. I think he should move club as well.

 

[Raggs]

Because he's still maintaining that the's a 10.

He's a centre, but he's not going to play there for Bath, so it'll be a while until he's at the level to be considered internationally.

Is he? I know he's having to fill in at 10, but then Bath have no other options. When he's come on otherwise it's always been in the centres. Played in the centres against the BaaBaas too I believe.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think the idea of Devoto as a 10 will probably be left behind next season, unfortunately... I was hopeful he would be able to perform there at senior level, but alas....

 

[goodNumber10]

I think the idea of Devoto as a 10 will probably be left behind next season, unfortunately... I was hopeful he would be able to perform there at senior level, but alas....

i can't ever recall thinking "that lads a 10", he just doens't move or look like a 10, i know you get different types of players but you can just see when someone is a 10. I think it's how they appear on ball, but Devoto always looks like he's trying to run with baby in his hands, he looks scared the whole time and rushed.

Move him to 12 and he seems to shed all that... i could see him at 13 to be honest.

 

[Raggs]

Devoto is a big lad, extremely strong too, I'm hoping he'll become what we hoped 36 would be.