Where every All Black was born - NZ Herald Article

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, Ireland and Scotland have 'project player' systems in place specifically to poach - Wales have it coming in as well (it might already be?).

Whether or not the countries actually use these project players is another matter - being a project player isn't a guarantee of caps, but is a way of clubs having an extra foreigner or two, as long as they're not capped.

Richardt Strauss is an example of an Irish project player, and (presumably) Jared Payne as well, when he becomes eligible (think it should be about now?).

 

[Draggs]

Yeah, Ireland and Scotland have 'project player' systems in place specifically to poach - Wales have it coming in as well (it might already be?).

Whether or not the countries actually use these project players is another matter - being a project player isn't a guarantee of caps, but is a way of clubs having an extra foreigner or two, as long as they're not capped.

Richardt Strauss is an example of an Irish project player, and (presumably) Jared Payne as well, when he becomes eligible (think it should be about now?).

We allow 'time servers' if they are forwards 27 or younger, and backs 25 or younger. Now it isn't specifically saying "we are going to sign you with the intent to cap in three years" unlike others, but saying that of the eight NWQ players allowed per team, two must fit that criteria. Will we actually sign players good enough to cap? No, last one was Andries Pretorius who was on the dire Japan tour.

 

[smartcooky]

That is a very diplomatic stance there cooky. I think Jared Payne, Mike Harris, Sean Maitland and Gareth Anscombe were selected very much on that basis...project player schemes in Ireland would indicate that is the case.

Mike Harris went to Australia because he could not get Super Rugby contract NZ. (I hope to hell they don't make the same mistake with Richie Mo'unga and the McGahan lad from North Harbour.

I do not believe that the IRFU, WRU, RFU or SRU arranged for Maitland, Anscombe or Payne or any other player for that matter to move as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program. Since when do any European Clubs recruit specific players at the behest of their union. Their track record of cooperation with parent unions ain't that flash!!

 

[nickdnz]

Mike Harris went to Australia because he could not get Super Rugby contract NZ. (I hope to hell they don't make the same mistake with Richie Mo'unga and the McGahan lad from North Harbour.

I do not believe that the IRFU, WRU, RFU or SRU arranged for Maitland, Anscombe or Payne or any other player for that matter to move as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program. Since when do any European Clubs recruit specific players at the behest of their union. Their track record of cooperation with parent unions ain't that flash!!

Well, in the case of Payne the IRFU clearly have a 'project player' system - which means a foreign player has to be interested to play for Ireland and stay long enough to become eligible. It's the same system which plenty of current South African and New Zealand players are recruited for - to the behest of many Irish members who would rather see academy players given a chance. It was very clearly a signing point of Bundee Aki - as he made it quite clear upon signing that he saw it as a chance to play for Ireland.

In Anscombe's case - again Warren Gatland made many comments prior to Gareth signing that he sees him as the Wales #10 come the RWC.

As for Maitland - well he was straight into a Lions tour on his first year. He was a high profile winger who could have probably signed anywhere but instead decided to sign for Glasgow..

Going miles off topic - I don't see Richie Mo'unga missing out at all. With Bleyendaal leaving (to Ireland ) and Ray Lee-Lo back to the Hurricanes - I think the Crusaders will have room in their squad for him.

McGahan is more interesting. He hasn't been picked up yet, but neither has Marty Banks (which is crazy) and Marty Mckenzie.

We just seem to have too many awesome 1st 5/8ths kicking around.

 

[Peat]

I and explain who is responsible for perpetrating the myth the "second rate so called journalists", (and I will name some names, Stephen Jones, Eddie Butler and Brendan Gallagher among others). In so doing, I have a swipe at them, and I make no apologies for that.... ***-for-tat.

You see, first you say that most of the journalists are English, then you name two Welshmen and a guy who may or may not be English as your examples. This is why people look at your article and think it's a bit off.

I do not believe that the IRFU, WRU, RFU or SRU arranged for Maitland, Anscombe or Payne or any other player for that matter to move as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program. Since when do any European Clubs recruit specific players at the behest of their union. Their track record of cooperation with parent unions ain't that flash!!

This post is so ignorant it hurts. Also, it's nice to see the obligatory sideswipe at European club rugby despite said swipe being neither relevant or accurate.

If I was to explain how it was wrong, would you actually listen? My guess is 'no' which is why I'm not actually bothering.

 

[goodNumber10]

I do not believe that the IRFU, WRU, RFU or SRU arranged for Maitland, Anscombe or Payne or any other player for that matter to move as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program. Since when do any European Clubs recruit specific players at the behest of their union. Their track record of cooperation with parent unions ain't that flash!!

Please stop lumping everyone in together. England and the RFU are very different to the rest of GB&I - it really shows how little you understand of the stuff that goes on up here.

Sean Lineen, of the SRFU, role is a player RECRUITMENT manager. Not development Recruitment, like a club side:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/interview-sean-lineen-revels-in-new-role-1-2734818
http://www.therugbyblog.com/identity-crisis-profiling-scotlands-foreign-recruits
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/17330773


The RFU on the other hand have never actively gone out and recruited foreign players for England, we allow time served but players come here of their own accord to play club rugby and then choose to change their allegiance to represent England - the same in France.

This is NOT the case in the other countries where the IRFU, THE SRU and the WRU all have active project player recruitment policies (some with specific caveats like Wales) that recruits against the national sides requirements.

I think players playing in countries other than their birth is simply a sign of the times; a reality of the modern age that is not going to change any time soon. Corporate Globalisation, the ease of travel to other countries and near-instant global communications has shrunk the world dramatically. FFS, things like Mobile Phones and Skype was the stuff of science fiction when I was a teenager.

It is now commonplace for extended families to be spread all over the world. Neither of my kids are really very sporty, but if they were, and they represented the country of their residence, they would be playing for Canada and Switzerland respectively.

I agree with you here, i think global immigration has put paid to any notion of the "represent only your country of birth" idea, people should be able to represent the country they consider home as long as they qualify for it.

That's a bit different to signing someone on a project system.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Just to say Anscombe does qualify for Wales through parentage (I'm sure that's the correct word). He's not a project player, which I'm not keen on the Welsh regions doing by the way.

 

[Peat]

Maitland also qualifies through ancestry. In both cases, the player's move was undoubtedly motivated by the desire to play international rugby, and it seems very likely that the Union in question was asking them if they'd like to. I'm fairly sure the WRU did so publicly through the media when it comes to Anscombe, although I didn't read the reports close enough to be sure.

 

[smartcooky]

You see, first you say that most of the journalists are English, then you name two Welshmen and a guy who may or may not be English as your examples. This is why people look at your article and think it's a bit off.

Stephen Jones is Welsh and so is Eddie Butler... yeah, right! Which Newspapers do they write in again?

They might be technically Welsh but they write in English newspapers; Butler in the Observer and the Guardian, Jones in The Telegraph.

If you read any of Jones' gutter tripe, you would never know he was Welsh when you see how much pandering and arse-licking he does over the England rugby team.

BTW I have received quite a bit of good feedback about the article, including three positive comments from TRF mods.

You and goodnumber10 are the only one who find it a bit off. No surprise there!

Please stop lumping everyone in together. England and the RFU are very different to the rest of GB&I - it really shows how little you understand of the stuff that goes on up here.

Are you really as dumb as you are coming across? I am NOT LUMPING EVERYONE TOGETHER!!!

SPECIFICALLY Sean Maitland's name was mentioned, and he plays for SCOTLAND, that is the SRU

SPECIFICALLY Jared Payne's name was mentioned, and he is a prospect for IRELAND, that is the IRFU

SPECIFICALLY Gareth Anscombe's name was mentioned,a dn he is a prospect for WALES, that is the WRU


So perhaps I can now reword my post so that stupid people can better understand!

[TEXTAREA]I do not believe that the IRFU arranged for Jared Payne, or any other player for that matter, to move to Ireland as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program.

I do not believe that the SRU arranged for Sean Maitland, or any other player for that matter, to move to Scotland as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program

I do not I believe that the WRU arranged for Gareth Anscombe, or any other player for that matter, to move to Wales as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program.

I also do not believe that the RFU arrange for players to move to England to as part of some hole-and-corner poaching program.[/TEXTAREA]

Is that better.?

Do the stupids understand now?

BTW: this is the last time I waste my time rewording posts for ignorant people. I would expect members here to at least have elementary school comprehension skills, otherwise they would have needed mummy or daddy to approve their membership application.

 

[goodNumber10]

BTW I have received quite a bit of good feedback about the article, including three positive comments from TRF mods.

You and goodnumber10 are the only one who find it a bit off. No surprise there!

How convenient for your argument that no one can see these super duper comments. I reckon i could tell you exactly which three mods are massaging your ego as well.

Regardless no one is challenging the content of your article. I'm challenging your unnecessary closing gambit where you lump an entire nation together as Bigots, I also find the politically incorrect terminology you use through out the article deeply insulting, and the article is littered with petty swipes at the European rugby scene, but you show little understanding of it..

Are you really as dumb as you are coming across? I am NOT LUMPING EVERYONE TOGETHER!!!

yes you are, and this is the crux of the whole point I've made, your original article lumps everyone together and then unloads on them. It's pretty much like us lumping SANZAR all together. Each nation within Europe has a very different processes to eligibility and you show a distinct ignorance to NH rugby with your comments.

Do the stupids understand now?

BTW: this is the last time I waste my time rewording posts for ignorant people. I would expect members here to at least have elementary school comprehension skills, otherwise they would have needed mummy or daddy to approve their membership application.

Resorting to petty insults again and not the first time...... Maybe if you wrote your comments with some actual clarity and they were a bit more informed you wouldn't then spend the next 48/72 hours explaining what you really meant.

Your original article, while factually correct on the Analysis side, was insulting.

 

[Peat]

Lets say this straight.

Smartcooky is behaving like a troll.

He ignores all refutations of his claims on European rugby. On this page alone four posters have pointed out the existence of project player schemes that disproves his claim about unions' not targeting overseas players - Nick, Olyy, Draggs and GN10. He's ignored their points to go and post the same thing again.

He accuses English journalists of having a poor idea of nationality and making baseless assertions while cheerily conflating English and British like there is no difference.

He makes factually inaccurate attacks on his pet subject regardless of whether it's on topic (hint - look up who owns the Irish provinces and Scottish clubs).

He also makes personal attacks... a lot of them.

There is no point engaging with him on this subject. Do not feed the Troll.

 

[nickdnz]

I'm closing this thread. Interesting graphics in the article and information on where All Blacks are born compared to common misconceptions, has probably been overshadowed by the other stuff at this point. PM me if you have a good reason for it to be reopened.

Closed