What position should earn the most money?

[TheSaffycen]

If you want to win an International you need great players all over the place what i was trying to say is i find it difficuly to bring the hooker to the forefront without his props, they are a unit, yes i agree with the throwing at touch but you could also say if the jumpers do not time well, then who fault is it certainly not the hookers or even the lifters it was just a statement, no more no less.

Agreed 1/2/3 are all as important as the other.

 

[Big Ewis]

surely in the front row, the Tighthead is the most important one if you consider the importance of scrummaging, having a dominant scrum and all the positives this will bring immediately to your side. No ?

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yes but all of them need each other too work. When Saracens played Toulon, Vunipola was up against Hayman, there you would think well surely Hayman would have Vunipola on toast, but Saracens won the penalties because Chiocci was being destroyed by Matt ****ing Stevens. So if your loosehead is **** then it doesn't matter who you have at tighthead, watch the lions series too see the difference in the scrums when Vunipola played with Jones and when Corbisiero played with Jones. There is no real comparison.

 

[psychic duck]

A bad hooker will kill you at lineout time though, and while you wont be leaking penalties in the same way you would if you're scrum is misfiring you certainly wont be seeing very much of the ball.

True, but it's worth considering what drives the market value of 3 and 10's up is that there are fewer quality ones relative to other positions which may be also just as important. 1 is arguably just as important position as 3, but most nations have more players who could do international level at 1 or 2 than 3. Even England who have the most depth in Europe don't have to have many injuries and their down to Henry Thomas, who Olyy has always said is a big drop from the top 2. Likewise, Wales are an injury away from Rhodri Jones at tighthead. New Zealand are lucky that Owen Franks seemingly never ever gets injured as well.

There's just a few excellent fly halves like Wilkinson and Sexton as well, who can dictate the whole team's way of play, and unlike a tighthead players like that would add more commercially to a side as a face to go on advertising which casual fan knows as well.

 

[gaston le gaff]

I learned a valuble lesson on Tues with Mario Ledesma, the left prop often wheels because of what he can see ( head outside) and if he tends to bore inside to his right, where as if you wait for the right prop to move forward you will have a a straighter push without no wheeling, and after watching it done in front of me it does work, of course if the opposition is stronger they can counter the movement, but the straighter the push the move effective it is, and 9 out of 10 certainly less penalties against you. just a small fact about the frontrow as there are many and if you what to confront the biggest bunch of cheating bar stewards on a rugby field this is where you will find them in the frontrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

Yes but all of them need each other too work. When Saracens played Toulon, Vunipola was up against Hayman, there you would think well surely Hayman would have Vunipola on toast, but Saracens won the penalties because Chiocci was being destroyed by Matt ****ing Stevens. So if your loosehead is **** then it doesn't matter who you have at tighthead, watch the lions series too see the difference in the scrums when Vunipola played with Jones and when Corbisiero played with Jones. There is no real comparison.

yes I know that...actually, since we're on topic, Hayman is one of the rare Tightheads I've ever seen hold his position even when the rest of his front row are under big pressure. I have an image in my head during one scrum of his hooker and LH being swept away like a big breeze had blown them away, and after everybody collapses and all, you see Carl Hayman in position, then standing up like nothing happened. A fkng mountain. He doesn't seem as good this year though unfortunately, but still very solid.

And yeah gastone, I see what you're saying. Ledesma is one class individual btw..

 

[Feicarsinn]

True, but it's worth considering what drives the market value of 3 and 10's up is that there are fewer quality ones relative to other positions which may be also just as important. 1 is arguably just as important position as 3, but most nations have more players who could do international level at 1 or 2 than 3. Even England who have the most depth in Europe don't have to have many injuries and their down to Henry Thomas, who Olyy has always said is a big drop from the top 2. Likewise, Wales are an injury away from Rhodri Jones at tighthead. New Zealand are lucky that Owen Franks seemingly never ever gets injured as well.

There's just a few excellent fly halves like Wilkinson and Sexton as well, who can dictate the whole team's way of play, and unlike a tighthead players like that would add more commercially to a side as a face to go on advertising which casual fan knows as well.

Yeah, this thread has largely dealt with the intrinsic values of players while ignoring market availability to a large extent. Should we end up in a situation where there are plenty of top class tightheads up for grabs but relatively few fullbacks, the pay scales would obviously shift. Good point.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yeah, this thread has largely dealt with the intrinsic values of players while ignoring market availability to a large extent. Should we end up in a situation where there are plenty of top class tightheads up for grabs but relatively few fullbacks, the pay scales would obviously shift. Good point.

Yes and No. Yes in that the price of players is due to demand, like everything really, but the modern game has changed so much that the positions that matter the most are ones that give a direct reflection on the scoreboard, fly-half and front rows. If there was for some reason a massive influx of top quality props then their value would still stay the same, becuase their quality is reflective of other players available. For example Matt Stevens was probably on a big wage at Saracens, Longbottom and Figallo are both better than him and will probably be on same too more than what he was on. Now though there are more tightheads available the value has not gone down, just the value of the lesser players. Same with fly halfs, if the situation was the same. Tigers had both Cole and Castro, Castro went too Toulon where they had Hayman, but I but his market value didn't go down becuase there is already a top quality tighthead there. If 30 more tightheads of Castro's ability come through the price wont go down for tightheads in general, but the second rate ones will, and it's a position where you need at least 4 in your squad so there is no chance of too many coming in.
Hopefully I made my point clear because reading back on it, it looks like bull****. If this is the case then don't worry responding because i don't think that I can explain it anymore clearly

 

[Icemn]

Hookers... God they expensive

Flyhalf? or the guy that kicks the penalties/conversions, can be a hooker aswell

 

[gaston le gaff]

there is a saying that i have often heard in rugby "you build your team round your tighthead" other positions are important in fact all are imprtant, but Tightheads the very good ones, and they are so few of them, that is a reason why they command an excellent price.

 

[Big Ewis]

definitely the Tighthead then, glad to read it so many times on this thread. Interesting though because they aren't sought after as much as they once were, or talked about. Nicolas Mas has been fairly avoided/forgotten in lots of Rugby conversations in the past years, and he was statistically the best scrummager in the world at his position, at least for a few of those said 'last years'. He's one of the best scrummagers we've ever seen in fact. Ever.
One guy who's been iconic is Adam Jones. I'm guessing it's because of his peculiar physique as well (as his quality), the gentle giant thing, the fact he's in the English-speaking world. You'd see him appear on those TV game shows...he's been displayed a ton more than a Nicolas Mas. Castrogiovanni, surely because of his stop in England and ***le there, is also a much more recognizable figure world wide than Mas. Interesting.