What if Aus leave Super rugby?

[The Seeker]

for all intents and purposes they were formed for the Super Rugby Comp, another way to look at it would be they dont have the same history as QLD or NSW...but yet another way is the Brumbies are the most successful AUS team....

When I read that the Brumbies were so-called rejects I chose them as my Super Rugby team. I've always had a soft spot for stories like that. That's how I picked out a dog at the pound, I chose the one that nobody else wanted. And he's been a great pet for the last 8 years.

From their Wikipedia page - The Brumbies were formed in 1996 to provide a third Australian franchise for the newly formed Super 12 (now Super Rugby) competition. It was predicted that the Brumbies, made up of so-called 'reject' – players not wanted by the other two teams – would perform poorly. Since then, they have enjoyed more success than all the other Australian teams combined, reaching six finals and winning two.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The way I see it, maybe the Owner of the Rapid Rugby franchise should maybe try and strike a deal with the ARU, or maybe even buy it, and run it the way he wants to.

Seems to me he has a much better brain when it comes to rugby administration and the game itself than the last few CEO's that was at the helm of the ARU.

One think that I find extremely funny, is that Phil Kearns and Rod Kafer, the 2 most obnoxious, arrogant and ingorant fools commentating, has been given a platform to weigh in on this issue. I mean, South Africans haven't taken them seriously since 2001.

 

[mania]

oh no. its worse than i thought. instead of aus leaving super they might join NZ in a transtasman comp. that would not be good for NZ to be exposed to so much to negative aus rugby. omg those are painful comedic affairs. i swore i'd never watch another aus derby ever again.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

if they more or less let NZ rugby run it i think it could work, i kind of believe a strong aus rugby will help NZ in the long run, much larger potential market of sports lovers right on our doorstep

i think it needs to be first principles thought, three or four of the NRC teams entering the mitre 10 cup more or less as it is, try a build the grass roots, bridge the gap form school boy to super rugby

 

[TRF_heineken]

if they more or less let NZ rugby run it i think it could work, i kind of believe a strong aus rugby will help NZ in the long run, much larger potential market of sports lovers right on our doorstep

i think it needs to be first principles thought, three or four of the NRC teams entering the mitre 10 cup more or less as it is, try a build the grass roots, bridge the gap form school boy to super rugby

And where is this larger potential market? In Australia?? Rugby union has always been fighting for its place in Australia, with fans more interested in other sporting codes involving round/oval ball.

South Africa has a much bigger market and it has shown it's more lucrative than Australia. I really don't see why NZRU would do this for their own best interest.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

And where is this larger potential market? In Australia?? Rugby union has always been fighting for its place in Australia, with fans more interested in other sporting codes involving round/oval ball.

South Africa has a much bigger market and it has shown it's more lucrative than Australia. I really don't see why NZRU would do this for their own best interest.

we're talking about Aus...so yeah, im talking about aus. yes there are loads of other sports here (i live in melbourne) but i think its struggled because its just been run poorly for the last 10-15 years, this country is sports MAD...all kinds of sports...they can get 80k to a mid table mid season (as in nothing to play for) game of AFL. yes, you wont achieve that but when i see the the football teams and the passionate fans....and compare it to never seeing any advertising for the Rebels...

Yes, we all know RSA is a huge market....but its just not palatable to lots of fans let alone the casual ones, just time of day....and if im honest, the RSA union just throw their weight around too much, never let anyone forget you've got all the money and if anyone questions it the rumors of RSA joining the northern hemisphere start up

RSA gets to have all these lovely day games...the kind of thing that you might be able to get the casual fan along too....but not only does that mean we have to get up and watch games at 1-3am...we also have to have all these night games because it makes for better viewing times in RSA

100% RSA has loads of money...some people are just re thinking if its worth it...especially if Aus disappeared, even less games at a good time to watch...so potentially loosing more support

i think people need to realise there is a lot of people that love seeing the Boks...but really dont care about the super games, viewing figures drop hugely between a NZ derby game to ones v a struggling RSA team

 

[unrated]

We also have early games when we play in NZ or Aus, I will admit it's not midnight games unless we are playing in Argentina.

But SANZAAR does not just consider the South African perspective when choosing the times of matches. So in other words when they schedule a SA based match and the time is something like 3 am nz time, then it's not just so that South Africa can maximise the tv income for Super rugby and consequently NZ but also because that would be favorable towards most of the European viewership. This is beneficial to all SANZAAR partners in terms of financial viability. We have to accept with such huge time differences that we won't be able to watch all games live, but from my perspective the long term health of Super Rugby will be in a decent position. Its the Australians that keep on being negative about this alliance. I for one, am more behind SANZAAR than ever in the midst of the Corona Virus crisis as well as the north shamelessly teaming up to keep Beaumont in power. Their lobbying of Fidji and Samoa speaks of the influence and lobbying power. For a more healthy game we need the balance of power that SANZAAR provides to WR

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i guess my point is more consideration seems to be given the tv audiences overseas than the actual local support and if the local support keeps dwindling then long term the team will struggle to justify sponsorship etc

out of curiosity, approx what percent of super games in South Africa are kick off between 1pm and 3pm? because the vast majority of games in Nz start at 530 or 730

its hard to get the casual fans or fans with kids to night games where you can get them to earlier ones. and i dont even just mean to the actual ground, i dont have kids so i'll ask my mates (even my brother) if they want to meet at the pub to watch and universally it seem 7pm is bath time with bed time at 730pm....so they're like "i might be able to make the second half"...which they only do half the time...where day games? easy

 

[mania]

i guess my point is more consideration seems to be given the tv audiences overseas than the actual local support and if the local support keeps dwindling then long term the team will struggle to justify sponsorship etc

out of curiosity, approx what percent of super games in South Africa are kick off between 1pm and 3pm? because the vast majority of games in Nz start at 530 or 730

its hard to get the casual fans or fans with kids to night games where you can get them to earlier ones. and i dont even just mean to the actual ground, i dont have kids so i'll ask my mates (even my brother) if they want to meet at the pub to watch and universally it seem 7pm is bath time with bed time at 730pm....so they're like "i might be able to make the second half"...which they only do half the time...where day games? easy

and this why , by my theory, we have dwindling numbers at rugby games in NZ. because theyre night games the majority of the grassroots supporters have children invested and dont see the point of going to the game if they cant take their kids. they are why they volunteer all their time for. a 730 game means getting home after 10pm, hopefully before 11pm. if they have anything on next day in the morning they arent gonna be mentally all there for it because of mental exhaustion from the game the night before.
games also after spending 4-6 hours helping run rugby games all saturday by night time i'm pretty rugby'd out. im at my kids games, my nieces and cousins and im a helper at all the games, even if im only holding a tackle shield or organising water.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

https://www.allblacks.com/news/investec-super-rugby-aotearoa-gets-the-green-light/

the easiest way forward i guess...sounds a little bit boring...would have been coll if they tries something different and then they cold just blame the COVID if it didn't work, hopefully these games will be largely day games

 

[TRF_heineken]

we're talking about Aus...so yeah, im talking about aus. yes there are loads of other sports here (i live in melbourne) but i think its struggled because its just been run poorly for the last 10-15 years, this country is sports MAD...all kinds of sports...they can get 80k to a mid table mid season (as in nothing to play for) game of AFL. yes, you wont achieve that but when i see the the football teams and the passionate fans....and compare it to never seeing any advertising for the Rebels...

That seems fair. Although, I think Australian Rugby made a big mistake in not keeping Perth part of the tournament. I'm not talking about the Western Force as a team, but rather the city. Not only is it geographically a good stop over between RSA and the Australasia, but also the amount of people in that region. There's over 50k South African expats living in the City, and nearly all of them are rugby supporters. That's a huge market they are missing out on.

Yes, we all know RSA is a huge market....but its just not palatable to lots of fans let alone the casual ones, just time of day....and if im honest, the RSA union just throw their weight around too much, never let anyone forget you've got all the money and if anyone questions it the rumors of RSA joining the northern hemisphere start up

But here's the thing though, we aren't throwing our weight around, and we aren't the ones spreading the rumours, most of the journalists making up these rumours are either from Australia or the NH (welsh online). Our Board has on several occasions mentioned that they have no intention to leave Super Rugby, even though the media just keeps on spreading the stories.

RSA gets to have all these lovely day games...the kind of thing that you might be able to get the casual fan along too....but not only does that mean we have to get up and watch games at 1-3am...we also have to have all these night games because it makes for better viewing times in RSA

Let's look at Saturday's line up. The schedule for games usually start with the first game being played either in Japan or NZ from 5 am onwards. The NZ games follow that game up to usually 10 am, then we get the Australia games from 10 am to 2 pm. Then the SA games start from 3 pm to 7 pm. Then Argentina's game is usually either 10pm or midnight.

When it's a bumper day, there really isn't other time slots available, and studies have shown that Sunday games just doesn't work in SA. so we really are only left with Friday evening or Saturday games.

Not only that, but it would not be in the teams best interest to play in SA between 12 and 2 pm, especially in the summer when the heat is at it's highest and theres no shade over the stadiums. There would be water breaks every 10 minutes, and that wouldn't be a watchable game either for the fans.

Every country suffers a bit with games showing either very early in the morning or very late at night. Not just NZ.

100% RSA has loads of money...some people are just re thinking if its worth it...especially if Aus disappeared, even less games at a good time to watch...so potentially loosing more support

That might be a good study. But regardless of Australia leaving or not, the amount of viewers in Africa won't change that much, and the steady income will keep coming in. In fact, if Australia leaves, it could be that RSA, NZ and Argentina and Japan get a bigger cut from viewership.

i think people need to realise there is a lot of people that love seeing the Boks...but really dont care about the super games, viewing figures drop hugely between a NZ derby game to ones v a struggling RSA team

And vice versa. That's not unique to NZ. the viewership for an SA derby is way higher than a game featuring the Blues or Highlanders in SA.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Let's look at Saturday's line up. The schedule for games usually start with the first game being played either in Japan or NZ from 5 am onwards. The NZ games follow that game up to usually 10 am, then we get the Australia games from 10 am to 2 pm. Then the SA games start from 3 pm to 7 pm. Then Argentina's game is usually either 10pm or midnight.

When it's a bumper day, there really isn't other time slots available, and studies have shown that Sunday games just doesn't work in SA. so we really are only left with Friday evening or Saturday games.

thats it though, games in RSA start at 5am and go to 10pm, so through the day and evening....games in Nz start (mostly) 5pm and go through to 4-5am, so through the night

This aligns with how it gets reported, RSA Union drive this program because it better for their larger market

which do you think would work better when trying to get someone to watch the game

"come down the pub in the avo and we'll watch a couple of games, and you can still get home for kids dinner/bath/bedtime or go out for dinner"

or

"come out in the evening when your kids are having dinner/bath/bedtime" or " get up in the middle of the night and come around to mine to watch it on sky that costs me $100 bucks a month"

Nothing to do with RSA now but thats the other thing that keeps the support high in aus, free to air coverage, most AFL games are live free to air Thursday through Sunday, so even when you cant afford to support you team you can still support them

 

[mania]

https://www.allblacks.com/news/investec-super-rugby-aotearoa-gets-the-green-light/

the easiest way forward i guess...sounds a little bit boring...would have been coll if they tries something different and then they cold just blame the COVID if it didn't work, hopefully these games will be largely day games

no choice really. much prefer kiwi teams smashin other teams but NZ derbies are very intense high skilled affairs and played at high speed.
so it will be enjoyable

 

[Kiwiwomble]

no choice really. much prefer kiwi teams smashin other teams but NZ derbies are very intense high skilled affairs and played at high speed.
so it will be enjoyable

yeah, fair enough, think i was kind of excited for a full strength Mitre 10 cup or a super comp that included a sixth team of players coming back from Japan and the PI's or something

 

[TRF_heineken]

thats it though, games in RSA start at 5am and go to 10pm, so through the day and evening....games in Nz start (mostly) 5pm and go through to 4-5am, so through the night

This aligns with how it gets reported, RSA Union drive this program because it better for their larger market

which do you think would work better when trying to get someone to watch the game

"come down the pub in the avo and we'll watch a couple of games, and you can still get home for kids dinner/bath/bedtime or go out for dinner"

or

"come out in the evening when your kids are having dinner/bath/bedtime" or " get up in the middle of the night and come around to mine to watch it on sky that costs me $100 bucks a month"

Nothing to do with RSA now but thats the other thing that keeps the support high in aus, free to air coverage, most AFL games are live free to air Thursday through Sunday, so even when you cant afford to support you team you can still support them

You are trying to point the finger at SA when you shouldn't.

These kick-off times have been there since the Super 10, it hasn't changed, all that happened was that there were more games because of more teams, which makes it a bumper day.

The thing which you aren't considering is that with the current times, Australia has always had bad viewership of the games, and not just the away games showing in the early hours of the morning. And that is not RSA's fault.

We as a country never chose these times as an individual nation, and we can't be the sole reason why viewership in other countries are falling. If anything we are trying to increase the viewership numbers by broadening our broadcasts to many countries, not just rugby playing nations. Islands like Mauritius, Reunion and Madagascar are now also part of our broadcasting network, and when I was on honeymoon in Mauritius, I could even watch Super Rugby games.

Just like you are complaining about the time of matches, we are also complaining, and the time zones make it nearly an impossible task.

The other thing you are forgetting is that there has never been a double header where 2 games in different stadiums have been played at the same time. It would be easy to make that transition and have 2 NZ home based games, 2 Australian home based games and 2 SA home based games at the same time and have them in a time slot suitable for all the fans to be awake to watch them. But then, wouldn't that drop the viewership numbers even more?? Because in essence, while you are watching 3 games, you are simultaneously missing out on 3 other games...

 

[Kiwiwomble]

These kick-off times have been there since the Super 10, it hasn't changed, all that happened was that there were more games because of more teams, which makes it a bumper day.

thats not true though, i use to work at carisbrook selling programs for the highlanders in the 90's and the were predominately day games

not the country itself but definitely the South African Union, you may not like it but thats the way its always been explained, the South African Union drives for the current viewing schedule

Just like you are complaining about the time of matches, we are also complaining, and the time zones make it nearly an impossible task.

thats kind of my point, we keep trying for something that might just not work anymore

maybe completely separate conferences with just the final series crossing over, make the final two or three weeks a big deal but spend the rest of the season focusing on local

 

[TRF_heineken]

thats not true though, i use to work at carisbrook selling programs for the highlanders in the 90's and the were predominately day games

not the country itself but definitely the South African Union, you may not like it but thats the way its always been explained, the South African Union drives for the current viewing schedule

Who explained that to you? That's not what I've seen.

Wasn't the Highlanders time for their games due to their new stadium and the attraction it brings of the students at university who have classes earlier during the day??

The Blues still have day games, I remember a couple of years ago having to wake up at 3 am to watch the Bulls play the Blues. South Africa is not saying what times games will be played.

thats kind of my point, we keep trying for something that might just not work anymore

maybe completely separate conferences with just the final series crossing over, make the final two or three weeks a big deal but spend the rest of the season focusing on local

Seriously? Conferences??? The main thing everyone is currently complaining about? Everyone from New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina & Japan have had the issue of the conference system and that's the main reason why we are reverting back to a strength vs. strength round robin tournament.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Who explained that to you? That's not what I've seen.

Wasn't the Highlanders time for their games due to their new stadium and the attraction it brings of the students at university who have classes earlier during the day??

The Blues still have day games, I remember a couple of years ago having to wake up at 3 am to watch the Bulls play the Blues. South Africa is not saying what times games will be played.



Seriously? Conferences??? The main thing everyone is currently complaining about? Everyone from New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina & Japan have had the issue of the conference system and that's the main reason why we are reverting back to a strength vs. strength round robin tournament.

I'm just surprised, it's just a thing I thought everyone accepted because it seems to be the only explanation I've ever seen given, just a fact, but it seem that is how it's explained in nz and Aus but not rsa

The new stadium didn't open until 2011 and night game shave been around for a lot longer than that and students (speaking from experience) would rather an afternoon game so they can go to the pub or a house party in the evening

there are still the occasional day game but each nz team might get one and normally against another nz or Aus team

the problem with conference as far as I see is they're confusing and unbalanced , basically two seperate comps that only meet for an overall winner isn't complicated

I just did a random check, 2019 chiefs schedule, one game was 515pm and the rest were 735pm or through the night when overseas, our 2015 season we didn't have a single game earlier than 735pm

you cant really look at the most common schedules between the two countries, 5am to 10pm in RSA and 5pm to 5am in Nz and say they're equally grueling

let me know when you have to get up three weeks in a row between 1am and 3am to watch your team

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm just surprised, it's just a thing I thought everyone accepted because it seems to be the only explanation I've ever seen given, just a fact, but it seem that is how it's explained in nz and Aus but not rsa

The new stadium didn't open until 2011 and night game shave been around for a lot longer than that and students (speaking from experience) would rather an afternoon game so they can go to the pub or a house party in the evening

Again, who are these people explaining these things to you or to the people in Oz and NZ? That isn't the info we are seeing in articles or discussions on tv and so on.

there are still the occasional day game but each nz team might get one and normally against another nz or Aus team

Yet there is always a day game in South Africa, sometimes all of them are in the day. I would much rather prefer the SA games later in the day than the dreaded 3 pm kick-off time. But then again, we have to be as accomodating as possible.

the problem with conference as far as I see is they're confusing and unbalanced , basically two seperate comps that only meet for an overall winner isn't complicated

You are trying to oversimplify this issue, which has been discussed at length in several threads. Point is, nobody likes the conference system, and there are way too many problems with it. And that is why SANZAAR is revoking it.

I just did a random check, 2019 chiefs schedule, one game was 515pm and the rest were 735pm or through the night when overseas, our 2015 season we didn't have a single game earlier than 735pm

you cant really look at the most common schedules between the two countries, 5am to 10pm in RSA and 5pm to 5am in Nz and say they're equally grueling

let me know when you have to get up three weeks in a row between 1am and 3am to watch your team

I'm usually still awake at 1 am to catch the Jaguares game. And it doesn't bother me that much. I accept that not everyone will be able to watch every game every weekend. Luckily there is something like recordings and highlights.

The most difficult time for me to watch games are between 8 am and 12 noon. And on Fridays it's impossible because I'm then at work.

Everyone no matter where in the world you are, will miss out on games, there are just too many to catch them all live.

I just don't think there is a conspiracy theory here where South Africa is the puppetmaster. Especially since we were the nation that was always deemed the most disadvantaged by the scheduling...

 

[User1245]

Doesn't a lot of it have to do with Europe than just South Africa? The European market combined with the SA market gives the beef to that time zone.

Having been a super rugby fan in the SA time zone and the AU time zone my 2 cents is the AU scheduling is horrendous for interest in the sport. It's a vicious cycle that is not helping Australian rugby.

By default, you'll miss loads of matches. Not a good start from the get go. It's hard to get into a competition when you don't get to see a good chunk of the matches. An 11am match is a pain but a Sunday 1am match is impossible. And it's the case like every weekend.

The time zone difference is a massive barrier to get new fans to follow Super Rugby. Only hardcore fans really follow it here. It is dying here but most people don't even notice because nobody follows it!

As much as I'll miss watching by beloved Sharks, I think Australia need to go with Japan and NZ, SA go with Europe. That makes a lot of sense to me.