What changes with Eddie Jones

[Duck a l'Orange]

I think selecting Hartley as captain is as much a statement of intent as anything else.
Lancaster's England was well behaved, Mr. Nice Guy- one of the problems a lot of people had with it was the perceived lack of killer instinct, edge competitiveness.

By choosing Dylan Jones states his case; marks out the start of his regime and a change of attitude.

Hartley's captained his club for years: as an interim all he has to do is make the right decisions on the field- which he does at club- and not get carded- which he can just about manage.

If he does that I won't mind him staying on for longer, or until there's an obvious better option.

 

[Maverick1987]

I think selecting Hartley as captain is as much a statement of intent as anything else.
Lancaster's England was well behaved, Mr. Nice Guy- one of the problems a lot of people had with it was the perceived lack of killer instinct, edge competitiveness.

By choosing Dylan Jones states his case; marks out the start of his regime and a change of attitude.

Hartley's captained his club for years: as an interim all he has to do is make the right decisions on the field- which he does at club- and not get carded- which he can just about manage.

If he does that I won't mind him staying on for longer, or until there's an obvious better option.

This

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

How does Hartley get on with refs? All very well having an "edge" but if you rub the ref up the wrong way, it won't be good.

 

[Colombia]

Agree 100 per cent. I've played with some guys like that who for whatever reason was made captain - and nothing is more frustrating for a squad than your own captain not having the discipline you would expect from the most junior member of the squad.

For whatever people say about Richie McCaw - he only had 2 yellow cards in 148 tests. It sets a high standard for the team and people work out what was expected.

We're not in the amature era anymore - and you have to clearly distinguish the difference between an enforcer and a thug.

As it is I think Hartley is overrated as hell anyway.

He certainly set the standard on how to cheat and get away with it, except with Wayne Barnes the one ref with no time for reputations who saw what he had been doing. McCaw tripped an Argentinian in front of Barnes at the World Cup too. :lol:

I've seen a fair few Kiwis weigh in on Hartley, they haven't been explicit about it but it's fairly clear they still haven't forgiven Hartley for dropping the elbow on Richie in 2012. I don't like either of them to be honest, the game can do without their illegality and the sooner Dylan joins Richie in retirement, the better.

 

[nickdnz]

He certainly set the standard on how to cheat and get away with it, except with Wayne Barnes the one ref with no time for reputations who saw what he had been doing. McCaw tripped an Argentinian in front of Barnes at the World Cup too. :lol:

I've seen a fair few Kiwis weigh in on Hartley, they haven't been explicit about it but it's fairly clear they still haven't forgiven Hartley for dropping the elbow on Richie in 2012. I don't like either of them to be honest, the game can do without their illegality and the sooner Dylan joins Richie in retirement, the better.

Pretty dumb point.

I've talked about Hartley's discipline record; which is well established as the most punished player in the game. The point on the McCaw (which was in like 2010..) incident was simply his terrible discipline record doesn't even do him justice. Everyone was over Hartley when Brad Thorn immediately put him on his ass.

Comparing McCaw to Hartley is pretty laughable.

 

[MrTea_32]

I'd prefer the Captain to play in the backs and the only one who's really made the shirt his is Mike Brown.

Last weekend on bt sport BOD said he was honoured to captain Ireland but in the backs in not where the captain should be. Needs to be back row or lock someone close to the ref

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

As a saints fan I'm actually not Dylan's biggest fan but dropping the elbow on mccaw was brilliant, he deserved it.

 

[Tony Manx]

Am afraid cannot support you on that or condone acts of foul play no matter the provocation!

That is what the ref and the citing officials are there to deal with.

You are actually saying it is ok to resort to illegal physical violence if, in your opinion alone, you see something you do not like?!!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Am afraid cannot support you on that or condone acts of foul play no matter the provocation!

That is what the ref and the citing officials are there to deal with.

You are actually saying it is ok to resort to illegal physical violence if, in your opinion alone, you see something you do not like?!!

What I am saying is the current system is wrong. So let's look at an example.....


A player is held down at a ruck after the ruck has finished. The player doing the holding will not get penalised at all.

But if the player who is being held retaliates in anyway then they are penalised. This is my problem it actually encourages foul play but knowing you can do whatever you like but if someone retaliates then they get penalised.

This system is wrong.

 

[Tony Manx]

What I am saying is the current system is wrong. So let's look at an example.....


A player is held down at a ruck after the ruck has finished. The player doing the holding will not get penalised at all.

But if the player who is being held retaliates in anyway then they are penalised. This is my problem it actually encourages foul play but knowing you can do whatever you like but if someone retaliates then they get penalised.

This system is wrong.

Not looking for an argument and can see your point! I believe the enforcement of the system is wrong where the foul (holding down) is not penalized!

From what I have seen, in the majority of such cases, a penalty is given for the original foul play BUT the retaliator is then penalized by having the original penalty reversed!

Holding down is not of itself a foul deserving a yellow other than where persistent (individually or team wise).

The retribution probably is because there is normally a level of violence and, depending on the level of such violence, what is the outcome ranging from just reverse penalty, yellow or a red card..

Should the original fouler be treated differently because it provoked the retaliation? I suppose that comes down to interpretation rather than the system. Have seen many cases where red has been given for the retaliation and yellow for the original provocation.

 

[Peat]

Mike Ford on which Bath players are being looked at by England - http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Mike...-new-England/story-28362053-detail/story.html

Not terribly illuminating except for the news that Ford's been pushing Auterac and Thomas.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Hartleys a brilliant choice.
The responsibility will make him that little bit more cautious about his conduct and curb his over zealous aspect.
He will bring fire and brimstone to the pack, just what England need, oh, and Experience.

 

[nickdnz]

Hartleys a brilliant choice.
The responsibility will make him that little bit more cautious about his conduct and curb his over zealous aspect.
He will bring fire and brimstone to the pack, just what England need, oh, and Experience.

NO IT WON'T. IF RESPONSIBILITY WAS WHAT HARLEY NEEDED, HE WOULDN'T CONSTANTLY **** UP AS NORTHAMPTON'S CAPTAIN. Why am I the only one seeing this?!?!?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeh it's not as if Hartley has never been captain before he captained saints and still had issues.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

NO IT WON'T. IF RESPONSIBILITY WAS WHAT HARLEY NEEDED, HE WOULDN'T CONSTANTLY **** UP AS NORTHAMPTON'S CAPTAIN. Why am I the only one seeing this?!?!?

You aren't the only one; it's taken two days to get my face and my palm separate for long to even read the forum.

 

[Aristodemus]

My main issue with this is that George is a better player and he should be starting imo. I think the lack of captain options has helped DH out here.

As for how he will do as a captain, only time will tell. Captaining Saints is one thing, England is an altogether different beast entirely.

 

[Maverick1987]

NO IT WON'T. IF RESPONSIBILITY WAS WHAT HARLEY NEEDED, HE WOULDN'T CONSTANTLY **** UP AS NORTHAMPTON'S CAPTAIN. Why am I the only one seeing this?!?!?

Dylan Hartley has done just fine for England . He's messed up for Northampton but that's just the way it is . He can be a good captain for us . I'm not unhappy with his appointment given the lack of anyone better really

I'll hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong if he does something

 

[TRF_Olyy]

NO IT WON'T. IF RESPONSIBILITY WAS WHAT HARLEY NEEDED, HE WOULDN'T CONSTANTLY **** UP AS NORTHAMPTON'S CAPTAIN. Why am I the only one seeing this?!?!?

I love the logic behind it:
He's missed like a whole year of his career through bans, missed a lions tour and a rwc (and was heavily involved in the scandals of the previous one), got a red card when captaining his club in the grand final, worked with sports psychologists and had anger management to no noticeable effect.
But nah, lets give him more responsibility, it'll definitely work out!!!!

 

[Tmartin995]

Don't know if it's already been discussed, but what about Haskell as an interim captain?

He's really impressed me this season playing alongside Smith, an open side, pretty sure he'd be playing with one for England that would just allow him to go around and smash things.

He can nurture Launchbury into the role and with Ewers out indefinitely with his knee injury I'd say he'd be my first choice at 6.

 

[Maverick1987]

http://www.skysports.com/share/10104109

Why the **** are we doing this to ourselves ! Be honest with the clubs ! Stop being sneaky ***** !