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We Need to talk about Worcester

Can't say I'm surprised, Atlas probably planned it this way.
And typical of PRL and RFU, no right and proper checks on owners.
Atlas obviously do not have the funds and demonstrates to me that pro rugby following the football route was a foolish route.
I am really worried about the future of pro rugby in this country.
 
Atlas failed the RFUs checks, that's why Worcester aren't in the championship
So how can they be allowed to own the club, if they don't have the funds.
The administrators must have been useless.
 
So how can they be allowed to own the club, if they don't have the funds.
The administrators must have been useless.
They bought the company that owns the club, presumably just to take ownership of the assets and either strip them out or rent them
They failed the RFUs pro club ownership checks which is why Worcester will have to start again in the amateur leagues, unless Atlas sell the club to a new (check-passing) owner or get their house in order and get re-audited
 
They bought the company that owns the club, presumably just to take ownership of the assets and either strip them out or rent them
They failed the RFUs pro club ownership checks which is why Worcester will have to start again in the amateur leagues, unless Atlas sell the club to a new (check-passing) owner or get their house in order and get re-audited
This and that Atlas chose not to enter the Championship to swerve the Fit and Proper test and the RFU obligation of paying Rugby creditors
 
This and that Atlas chose not to enter the Championship to swerve the Fit and Proper test and the RFU obligation of paying Rugby creditors
So they were bought by asset strippers, who couldnt afford it anyway.
How did the administrators allow it.

They need 2m loan to help pay the buyout.
 
So they were bought by asset strippers, who couldnt afford it anyway.
How did the administrators allow it.

They need 2m loan to help pay the buyout.
The administrators sole purpose was to get as much money for the assets as possible, the rugby wasn't a consideration.
 
I mean the whole concept is crazy when you dive into it. I'm amazed that Holland had 1.15m floating about to spend on it.
 
The administrators sole purpose was to get as much money for the assets as possible, the rugby wasn't a consideration.
But the money wasnt there, they now have a loan of over 1M.
How did they pull the wool over the eyes of the adminisrators!!!
 
I don't understand why the rugby creditors weren't considered?
Because Rugby creditors is an RFU term, not a financial one. Technically, and I hate it as much as everyone else, by withdrawing from the structure they're somehow able to get around it. Dimes et al. were paying the rugby creditors as part of their proposal, hence probably had less of a bid and lost.
 
But the money wasnt there, they now have a loan of over 1M.
How did they pull the wool over the eyes of the adminisrators!!!
but the money has been paid somehow, the purpose of the administrators is to get the money. It sucks, I don't know all the ins and outs but this is how it is at this time. Realistically a lot of us think the money will dry up quick and we'll be back to square 1
 
I don't understand why the rugby creditors weren't considered?
So take the two situations, i think both administrators had an agreement with the RFU regarding the terms.
RFU stipulated to regain a place in Champ that they needed to pay 'Rugby' Creditors, Wasps agreed to and are doing so, therefore getting a place.
Atlas decided they didn't want to and therefore forfeited a place in the champ.

Sadly there is no necessity to pay creditors, no legal requirement as far as i am aware.
 
So take the two situations, i think both administrators had an agreement with the RFU regarding the terms.
RFU stipulated to regain a place in Champ that they needed to pay 'Rugby' Creditors, Wasps agreed to and are doing so, therefore getting a place.
Atlas decided they didn't want to and therefore forfeited a place in the champ.

Sadly there is no necessity to pay creditors, no legal requirement as far as i am aware.
Got it in one
 
The administrators sole purpose was to get as much money for the assets as possible, the rugby wasn't a consideration.
Yep, the administrators priority is to pay off the creditors. In this case HMRC being the biggest one. If they can save the business and in turn the rugby so be it.
 
Basically, so Atlas decided to save themselves a load of money in a pretty unethical way and get the club. I think if they had agreed to repay the rugby creditors then there would be no storm.

Wasps i believe had at least 3m to pay off before purchasing the business to ex-players and staff etc.
 
Basically, so Atlas decided to save themselves a load of money in a pretty unethical way and get the club. I think if they had agreed to repay the rugby creditors then there would be no storm.

Wasps i believe had at least 3m to pay off before purchasing the business to ex-players and staff etc.
That is my issue.
Atlas have borrowed money from alk and sundry and the administrators have not checked the source of the finance.
I could have got a few mates to agree to lend me some money to pay for them.
 
Listening to jack Willis the other week on a podcast it sounded like wasps still owed him wages etc. so don't think they've paid all their rugby creditors yet.
 
Listening to jack Willis the other week on a podcast it sounded like wasps still owed him wages etc. so don't think they've paid all their rugby creditors yet.
Yeah i think this is being worked through but my assumption is that this will have to be resolved to take the place in the Champ. There will be an agreement in place to get it resolved fairly quickly i would imagine. It will take time i presume but i'm glad that the owners at least did the right thing to an extent. I still feed for businesses and shareholders who lost money.

That is my issue.
Atlas have borrowed money from alk and sundry and the administrators have not checked the source of the finance.
I could have got a few mates to agree to lend me some money to pay for them.
Yes and it's what so peculiar to why Dimes bid was rejected out right. There is a level of uncertainty to what happened with their bid.
It feels very dark on the loan shark esque money shifting going on.
 
Statement below summarises the Working Group of the Worcester Warriors Supporters trust.
I don't disagree with a number of points stated below, but i feel there is a slight naivety and singular viewing from supporters.
I completely understand not wanting another team to come into the area for 3 seasons and it makes me feel uncomfortable as well but it's a huge stadium that needs to be paid for and kept running daily.

I am sure that Warriors Women, Worcester Raiders RFC and the Phoenix Club would most not likely generate sufficient funding for the ground to be kept running and the squads to get paid.
Marketing is going to be down as not in eye lines as much and with bills only increasing for keeping stadia running, money has to come from somewhere.

There also seems to be this sense of that Dimes is a shining light who would pay off creditors, finance the club and start straight in the champ. Dimes is a great bloke, a good guy but more importantly a canny businessman. He will have a plan but i'm sure that he would be thinking strategically.

@EdBirch be interested to see what you think but feels like the supporters trust seem to think that money/revenue is going to be generated from nowhere to keep the stadium and facilities and playing staff/non-staff (e.g. security, professional services etc) going.

I don't like the idea of us poaching the stadium for the next three seasons and it all feels very wrong but this statement to me just feels very narrow minded on the challenges of making the phoenix club financially viable in the stadium/facilities.

Statement from Worcester Warriors Supporters Trust to RFU: https://www.wwst.co.uk/post/statement-to-rfu-8-5-23

A Statement from the Working Group of the Worcester Warriors Supporters Trust to the RFU: 08/05/2023

The RFU has confirmed that Wasps RFC has applied to play its home matches at Sixways Stadium, the home of Worcester Warriors, for the season 2023-24. We understand you wish to consult with local stakeholders. We believe that the supporters of Worcester Warriors are firmly in this category.

As you are aware, Atlas WWRFC has no plans for any Worcester Warriors Men?s team to play at Sixways for the foreseeable future. We believe that if Wasps become tenants at the stadium it would significantly impact, in a negative manner, the prospect of a phoenix Worcester team. Although most Warriors fans would choose not to support Wasps RFC, it is inevitable, over the proposed tenancy, that they would attract a local following. This would be to the detriment of pre-existing local rugby clubs, including any potential Warriors team. Wasps have no history in our local area; we believe they are intent on effectively poaching a ?ready-made? fan-base. There are other facilities closer to their previous ground(s); we do not believe they should be allowed to effectively set up a franchise in Worcestershire.

Additionally, from an administrative perspective, a Wasps? move to Sixways would be in direct contravention of RFU regulations 3.42(a), 5.71 and Regulation 5, Appendix 2, Section 15. We do not believe that Wasps have any right to be granted immunity from these regulations. They exist precisely for cases like this.

The Worcester Warriors Women?s team and Worcester Raiders FC play their home matches at Sixways. Currently the Warriors Women are the only elite level rugby team in Worcester and supporters would want them to remain as the primary tenant. We understand that both clubs have prospective deals to stay at Sixways. If Wasps also become tenants it would prevent a Worcester Warriors Men?s team playing at their own home ground due to fixture congestion. We see no other reason why Sixways could not host a phoenix Warriors team; Atlas WWRFC is hiding behind the idea that a lower league Warriors team would ?not be viable at Sixways?; we believe that they are simply trying to maximise their income from third party clubs and have no interest in reviving elite level men?s rugby under a Warriors banner. The supporters and the wider Worcester community have no desire for a cuckoo club to install itself at the Sixways Stadium or training facilities.

We also believe that the significant financial assistance provided by Loxwood Holdings Ltd., owned by Christopher Holland the owner of Wasps RFC, was the only reason that Atlas managed to complete their deal to buy Worcester Warriors. This is certainly not within the spirit of RFU regulation 4.2.1 and could be considered a breach.

Taking all these facts into consideration, we strongly urge the RFU to decline Wasps RFC?s application to play at Sixways Stadium. It would be unforgiveable if a club without any stadium or facilities, which has left behind vast debts and misery in Coventry, was given preferential treatment over our long-established club. The legacy of Cecil Duckworth, so important to everyone in Worcester, has been emasculated by both previous and current owners and we are determined that this must be reversed.

The working group are supportive of, and thankful for, the sentiment behind the RFU FAQ Document to ex-Warrior players released on 12th April. We agree with the regulations designed to prevent a club from effectively "buying a league position." We are against the Atlas plans to link up with Stourbridge RFC and hope the RFU do not permit them to progress.


I'll be honest: I find it hard to disagree with any of that. Very well stated.
 
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