Warm Up Match 5: Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Rotorua)

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

How old are you VC? You're fun to read but I can see how you rub people up the wrong way. When JD botched a pass right at the start, and commented in here you instantly told them to 'Shut Up' It makes me laugh as its how my 8 year old talks when he doesn't get his own way.

Keep it up tho

Apparently he's a renewable energy consultant(!) so probably more than 8 years old, maybe more like 11.

 

[smartcooky]

Quiffs and Americans call it soccer.......

Yeah, but there are a couple of reasons why America will never call Football, "Football".

First, the obvious one; for Americans, "Football" is what we call "Gridiron", or NFL. Always has been, always will be.

The second is less obvious. The top professional Football league in the USA is called "Major League Soccer", known as MLS. If they called Soccer "Football", then this league would be called "Major League Football". I will let you connect the dots.

 

[Nubiwan]

Even wearing the right coloured jersey!

Is SC representative of all New Zealanders on here.... ?? get control of your women.

 

[Nubiwan]

Yeah, but there are a couple of reasons why America will never call Football, "Football".

First, the obvious one; for Americans, "Football" is what we call "Gridiron", or NFL. Always has been, always will be.

The second is less obvious. The top professional Football league in the USA is called "Major League Soccer", known as MLS. If they called Soccer "Football", then this league would be called "Major League Football". I will let you connect the dots.

I just said quiffs and Americans. Thanks for confirming.

 

[valley commando]

To be fair to VC, he's given out more likes than dislikes He's a man of many emotions

Yep out of the last 20, I gave 11 likes and 9 dislikes

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Thought Hogg was gone home. I see no way Hogg playing over 1/2pint.

hogg has gone home. the point i had made was that i thought garland originally saw tee's as an impact player. so i was looking at a hypothetical 'what garland was originally thinking', and originally hogg wasn't injured. just hypothetical to demonstrate how te'o could be named on the bench.

but you are probably right about fifty cent.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just seen the clip of Mako slapping Furlong(?) that's going around Facebook - missed it live.
Amazing!


Edit:

https://streamable.com/vu4s4

Look at that ripple
"Now Homer this is a new body fat analysis test. I start you jiggling and measure how long it takes you to stop"
"Woohoo, look at that blubber fly"

 

[Jockstap]

Just seen the clip of Mako slapping Furlong(?) that's going around Facebook - missed it live.
Amazing!


Edit:

https://streamable.com/vu4s4

Look at that ripple
"Now Homer this is a new body fat analysis test. I start you jiggling and measure how long it takes you to stop"
"Woohoo, look at that blubber fly"

Ya I chuckled at that when it happened, Mako was disgusted, must say I've really come to appreciate the Saracens tight five now that I've watched them closely. England are lucky to have them.

 

[Skylinerd1]

I hope this match has ended the ridiculous insistance that Mckenzie and the likes of Lowe were hard done by. In every major match (NOT SR) I have seen Mckenzie under pressure he as been an EPIC failure. Lastnight was another example of this.

I will stifle what I just said with this though the Maori's tight five was a complete joke. Im not quite sure why the AB's didnt release atleast one decent prop for these guys and maybe a lock. Playing Mckenzie at 10 was a total failure and its hard to say its all his fault because why wasnt he played at 15 and lowe at wing? Mckenzie needs a season of super at 10 minimum and even then im not sure I'll be convinced on the guy as a 10 or anything at int level.

The only Maoris I thought came out of this match with their credibility intact were Messam, Nghatai, NMS and Akira Ioane. I even thought Akira's brother was ok aswell but made a couple of major mistakes.

Impressive performance by the Lions but dont think it means anything with the calibre of that tight 5 and kicking/catching performance. All its done is give the AB's a bit of warning of what to expect.

The maoris were beaten by lack of preparation (they needed a run in game and two weeks together minimum for this) and poor selection choices.

In the previous fixture like this Hayman was the only thing holding the maori scrum together. I felt that was one major difference.

 

[nik]

I hope this match has ended the ridiculous insistance that Mckenzie and the likes of Lowe were hard done by. In every major match (NOT SR) I have seen Mckenzie under pressure he as been an EPIC failure. Lastnight was another example of this.

I will stifle what I just said with this though the Maori's tight five was a complete joke. Im not quite sure why the AB's didnt release atleast one decent prop for these guys and maybe a lock. Playing Mckenzie at 10 was a total failure and its hard to say its all his fault because why wasnt he played at 15 and lowe at wing? Mckenzie needs a season of super at 10 minimum and even then im not sure I'll be convinced on the guy as a 10 or anything at int level.

The only Maoris I thought came out of this match with their credibility intact were Messam, Nghatai, NMS and Akira Ioane. I even thought Akira's brother was ok aswell but made a couple of major mistakes.

Impressive performance by the Lions but dont think it means anything with the calibre of that tight 5 and kicking/catching performance. All its done is give the AB's a bit of warning of what to expect.

The maoris were beaten by lack of preparation (they needed a run in game and two weeks together minimum for this) and poor selection choices.

In the previous fixture like this Hayman was the only thing holding the maori scrum together. I felt that was one major difference.

Second that.
Beaten upfront. So no chance of any backline magic. Also Dmac is not proven at 10.
I was hoping to see if there is anyone in the Maori putting their hand up for the ABs. Only Akira Ioane looked good in patches.

 

[Nubiwan]

I hope this match has ended the ridiculous insistance that Mckenzie and the likes of Lowe were hard done by. In every major match (NOT SR) I have seen Mckenzie under pressure he as been an EPIC failure. Lastnight was another example of this.

I will stifle what I just said with this though the Maori's tight five was a complete joke. Im not quite sure why the AB's didnt release atleast one decent prop for these guys and maybe a lock. Playing Mckenzie at 10 was a total failure and its hard to say its all his fault because why wasnt he played at 15 and lowe at wing? Mckenzie needs a season of super at 10 minimum and even then im not sure I'll be convinced on the guy as a 10 or anything at int level.

The only Maoris I thought came out of this match with their credibility intact were Messam, Nghatai, NMS and Akira Ioane. I even thought Akira's brother was ok aswell but made a couple of major mistakes.

Impressive performance by the Lions but dont think it means anything with the calibre of that tight 5 and kicking/catching performance. All its done is give the AB's a bit of warning of what to expect.

The maoris were beaten by lack of preparation (they needed a run in game and two weeks together minimum for this) and poor selection choices.

In the previous fixture like this Hayman was the only thing holding the maori scrum together. I felt that was one major difference.

Really shows that 15 pretty decent players will always have trouble against an organized team who may not necessarily be better man for man. Team work and organization trumps individual skill.

 

[GoTheNaki]

I hope this match has ended the ridiculous insistance that Mckenzie and the likes of Lowe were hard done by. In every major match (NOT SR) I have seen Mckenzie under pressure he as been an EPIC failure. Lastnight was another example of this.

I will stifle what I just said with this though the Maori's tight five was a complete joke. Im not quite sure why the AB's didnt release atleast one decent prop for these guys and maybe a lock. Playing Mckenzie at 10 was a total failure and its hard to say its all his fault because why wasnt he played at 15 and lowe at wing? Mckenzie needs a season of super at 10 minimum and even then im not sure I'll be convinced on the guy as a 10 or anything at int level.

The only Maoris I thought came out of this match with their credibility intact were Messam, Nghatai, NMS and Akira Ioane. I even thought Akira's brother was ok aswell but made a couple of major mistakes.

Impressive performance by the Lions but dont think it means anything with the calibre of that tight 5 and kicking/catching performance. All its done is give the AB's a bit of warning of what to expect.

The maoris were beaten by lack of preparation (they needed a run in game and two weeks together minimum for this) and poor selection choices.

In the previous fixture like this Hayman was the only thing holding the maori scrum together. I felt that was one major difference.

This sums up my feelings without me typing it all out.

I wasnt moaning about McKenzie not being included. I just kept telling people it was a height issue. But after that... Might be something more too.

Akira was a machine. But, well... They were on defense so much that it was the only thing we could look at....

 

[SomeOke]

I'm still moaning about McKenzie not being included and I literally have no emotional reason too.
Firstly D-Mac is not a proven 10, if I remember correctly he even played 15 at u20 level, so it's completely unfair to write off a player when he plays bad at 10.
Secondly if the forwards have absolute dominance none of the back-line is going to play well.

You can say similar things about Lowe playing at 15 for the first time in however long.
In the end both Lowe and McKenzie have a stronger and more complete skill-set than some of the others guys in the squad, and one bad game doesn't rewrite an entire SR season.

In any case I don't really care since it isn't my team, but I do have to say that D-Mac scares me more than Jordie.



On to the game, this tour is undeniably starting to get interesting, whenever the Lions have played their full strength (or near full) side i.e. the Crusaders and the Maori's, they look like a hard team to beat. Good for the tournament!

 

[Skylinerd1]

^^^ Jordie to me has more potential that D-Mac.

Jordie has the potential to be an ALL TIME INTERNATIONAL great (yes even better than Beauden) but thats just my opinion. Hansen has made the correct decision as he has been known to over quite a few years now.

If Jordie is developed properly I really think he could be better than either of his brothers. He's playing better top level rugby than Damien could of dreamed of at 20 (not that he wasnt bad either).

Jordie's biggest problem is settling on a position I think he might suit 15 better than 10 but it looks like he's got the skills to play either. If its 10 then he needs to move away from the Canes within the next two years.

 

[Nubiwan]

I'm still moaning about McKenzie not being included and I literally have no emotional reason too.
Firstly D-Mac is not a proven 10, if I remember correctly he even played 15 at u20 level, so it's completely unfair to write off a player when he plays bad at 10.
Secondly if the forwards have absolute dominance none of the back-line is going to play well.

You can say similar things about Lowe playing at 15 for the first time in however long.
In the end both Lowe and McKenzie have a stronger and more complete skill-set than some of the others guys in the squad, and one bad game doesn't rewrite an entire SR season.

In any case I don't really care since it isn't my team, but I do have to say that D-Mac scares me more than Jordie.



On to the game, this tour is undeniably starting to get interesting, whenever the Lions have played their full strength (or near full) side i.e. the Crusaders and the Maori's, they look like a hard team to beat. Good for the tournament!

Agree with this. Tough to play behind a pack on the back foot for most of the 80 minutes. In fairness to D Mac, Beauden Barret couldnt have turned that ship. To suggest Mckenzie, a more comfortable 15 should have, is unfair.

I thought the Maori game would be better/closer, but rather served to illustrate the benefit of one team having a string of decent contests under its belt against a side thrown together for a laugh.

Hoping the lions can be as competitive against the All Blacks, based on what we have seen. Even keeping it close in the 3 tests would be an amazing accomplishment for any side. We shall see.

 

[smartcooky]

Jordie's biggest problem is settling on a position I think he might suit 15 better than 10 but it looks like he's got the skills to play either. If its 10 then he needs to move away from the Canes within the next two years.

He wants to play 12, which is were he played for Canterbury last season.

 

[Nubiwan]

I think I'll be joining you on that crusade. Being able to blindly dislike any point you disagree with is ruining the forum, it's meaning that you get punished for having a different opinion to someone else. For the most part I enjoy the like/dislike system, it's just the people like VC that come along and abuse it that ruin it for everyone. 3 of my 4 dislikes are all just VC when I've said something against the Welsh.

I just discovered the ignore button and it works a bloody treat. There are a few unsavoury posters on here, so the ignore just takes care of those who freely abuse other posters and the trolls. More people should use it instead of the like/dislike, which I just think tend to inspire some people.

 

[Skylinerd1]

He wants to play 12, which is were he played for Canterbury last season.

Yep thats the other one. I think realistically he's going to be treated the same as Beuden by Hansen and will come on and play pretty much anywhere filling gaps. Obviously he's an excellent substitute because of his versatility which will gain him a huge amount of experience if Hansen plays him enough. By 23 he could be a pretty experienced INT player.

 

[mania]

I thought the Maori game would be better/closer, but rather served to illustrate the benefit of one team having a string of decent contests under its belt against a side thrown together for a laugh.

exactly. lions were just better prepared and have come out of their baptisms by fire in a much better state.
lions are developing nicely and taking on board everything they're learning from these buildup games.
test is gonna be epic and i imagine lions will front better than anyone anticipated at the beginning of this tour.
gatlands has managed and developed his squad awesomely.
imo one thing that we've learnt from this tour is in a WC year ABs should play each franchise and the maori's to prep.

 

[Larksea]

silly to write players off or even judge them or their potential one performance. dmac has had an amazing two seasons, this game is 1 of maybe 2-3 games in the last 2 years he hasn't been a standout in.

I dont think the positional change was the issue because he plays at 10 a fair bit for the chiefs even though he has 15 on his back. I think it was more to do with being in a team that had a short time frame together with what turned out to be an under powered tight 5, with other issues against what was a very good lions side.

I said before the game the key player for the maoris was TKB and my biggest worry was Ben May and I think I was 100% right. Those two players were probably the 2 key players in the MAB's underperforming. TKB needed a big game for the MAB's to have a chance and he had a pretty poor game by his standards and May was the guy going back at scrum time during that critical turning period of the game where the lions got dominance. I thought Hames held his own and only gave in when the tight head side was giving way. I thought Elliot Dixon didn't respond as well as he needed to being asked to play 7yeah if he was at his 2015 best he would have done the job but in hindsight Prior would have been a far better option.

I think we are singling out guys like dmac, Lowe and Mo'unga because we know how good they are and we expect them to be that good because they generally are but its not always like that. It is a team game after all. Heck you only need to look back a couple of weeks ago Bauden Barrett was pretty much anonymous as the Hurricanes lost to the Chiefs, and in that game dmac had to come in and cover 10 for an injured Cruden.

This is going to sound like me making excuses but its something I have been thinking about over the last few weeks and I think it has been a factor that NZ players need to adjust too. We have been playing super rugby since like February this year in mostly fast, dry, warm summer conditions and basically just the last few weeks it has just kinda hit winter and the conditions we are seeing games in has completely changed. And I think in this series in particular we are seeing NZ players have to adjust to these conditions as well as the other more obvious things.

the lions were good, the kicking game and the chasing and pressure was very good. Sexton has been a central figure in the good stuff the lions are doing, as is Murray lets face it... It is almost 10 man rugby at times. The top side we have seen against the crusaders and MAB's are playing effective rugby given the competition though it is a shame its not very expansive. While this MAB backline was very good on paper the pack wasn't up to it. The All Black pack is on another planet, in particular the tight 5 and #7. I think the key takeaway for this game from an All Black perspective was how the Lions operated at the rucks, be prepared for that.