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War in Israel

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enguelaz @ Jan 6 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Call me crazy if you like, but at least this makes slightly more sense compared to the reasons invoked on the news media... Oh yeah i forgot, it's all the fault of the Hamas who fired a rocket... not hard to stage if you ask me, not hard at all, and "they"'re pretty damn good at that. (see Gulf of Tonkin Incident or the Lusitenia Incident, or the Anthrax after 9/11)[/b]

You have got to be ******** me... No wonder France is going down the shitter, people like you are actually able to wander the streets unsupervised in daylight hours.

All we need now is you to say that George Bush personally ordered 9/11/planes didn't actually hit the twin towers and that Israel is re-creating the holocaust and I win imbecile bingo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
while I defy Jewish religion and culture, I still accept it to be part of my racial background. So I guess that's another point you're wrong on...[/b]

Than how can you be Jewish? Judaism is a religion, not a race.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 8 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enguelaz @ Jan 6 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Call me crazy if you like, but at least this makes slightly more sense compared to the reasons invoked on the news media... Oh yeah i forgot, it's all the fault of the Hamas who fired a rocket... not hard to stage if you ask me, not hard at all, and "they"'re pretty damn good at that. (see Gulf of Tonkin Incident or the Lusitenia Incident, or the Anthrax after 9/11)[/b]

You have got to be ******** me... No wonder France is going down the shitter, people like you are actually able to wander the streets unsupervised in daylight hours.

All we need now is you to say that George Bush personally ordered 9/11/planes didn't actually hit the twin towers and that Israel is re-creating the holocaust and I win imbecile bingo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
while I defy Jewish religion and culture, I still accept it to be part of my racial background. So I guess that's another point you're wrong on...[/b]

Than how can you be Jewish? Judaism is a religion, not a race.
[/b][/quote]

Like I said, look at the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident and in what conditions the Lusitania have been sunk before "categorizing" & insulting...

Do your research instead of swallowing everything that is thrown at you without questioning it, or is that too much to ask? You're human, you've been gifted with a brain (i suppose), so start to use it!

everything you see on TV is the pure truth my friend ;o) ahaha what a joke!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 8 2009, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enguelaz @ Jan 6 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Call me crazy if you like, but at least this makes slightly more sense compared to the reasons invoked on the news media... Oh yeah i forgot, it's all the fault of the Hamas who fired a rocket... not hard to stage if you ask me, not hard at all, and "they"'re pretty damn good at that. (see Gulf of Tonkin Incident or the Lusitenia Incident, or the Anthrax after 9/11)[/b]

You have got to be ******** me... No wonder France is going down the shitter, people like you are actually able to wander the streets unsupervised in daylight hours.

All we need now is you to say that George Bush personally ordered 9/11/planes didn't actually hit the twin towers and that Israel is re-creating the holocaust and I win imbecile bingo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
while I defy Jewish religion and culture, I still accept it to be part of my racial background. So I guess that's another point you're wrong on...[/b]

Than how can you be Jewish? Judaism is a religion, not a race.

[/b][/quote]


If it was that simple... :rolleyes:

In ex USSR, Jew was one of the many nationalities of the citizens ( amongst russian, ukrainian, latvian, uzbek etc...). You can actually find muslim jews in Uzbekistan.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 8 2009, 03:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
while I defy Jewish religion and culture, I still accept it to be part of my racial background. So I guess that's another point you're wrong on...[/b]

Than how can you be Jewish? Judaism is a religion, not a race.
[/b][/quote]

I was going to point this out but if Judaism is a race, then how come you have guys like Binyamin Netanyahu and his Dad talking about how white European Jews are somehow better than their African and North African counterparts in Judaism and how white officers should command IDF units made up mainly of African or North African Jews?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 8 2009, 10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ripper @ Jan 8 2009, 03:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
while I defy Jewish religion and culture, I still accept it to be part of my racial background. So I guess that's another point you're wrong on...[/b]

Than how can you be Jewish? Judaism is a religion, not a race.
[/b][/quote]

I was going to point this out but if Judaism is a race, then how come you have guys like Binyamin Netanyahu and his Dad talking about how white European Jews are somehow better than their African and North African counterparts in Judaism and how white officers should command IDF units made up mainly of African or North African Jews?
[/b][/quote]

Well, to be honest, he just sounds like an idiot. But the point of Jews as a race is that they aren't just one race as such - they have been assimilated into many races, but still remained partially defined as Jews.
 
The Jews are now different races joined by one religion. That is where you see the kind of divides you are talking about.It is wrong to say they are one race.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 8 2009, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
The Jews are now different races joined by one religion. That is where you see the kind of divides you are talking about.It is wrong to say they are one race.[/b]

but at the same time jews have more racial definition than any other global religion (by global I mean one that isn't limited to one specific country or culture).

For example, you'll find christians from everywhere; black/ maghreb/ arabic/ south asian/ far eastern muslims.

Jews however never had a homeland. Thus they formed communities all across Europe, in which they were the minority, and suffered varying degrees of persecution. There's records of Jews being expelled from England in the middle ages; there was a significant Jewish presence in Morocco before they were chased out, and of course there were huge Jewish 'ghettos' from Italy to Russia. Then suddenly they're given Israel to go and settle.

So Israelis can't be described as 'one race'; and anyone from Samoa to Iceland can convert to Judaism.

BUT

All of us will know there are certain characteristics which will tell us someone's probably Jewish. Surnames ending with -witz or -stein don't come from Hebrew, but tend to indicate someone's jewish. Also, there are features such as a hooked nose and darker complexion (typical of most semitic peoples); and a larger jaw which it's more common for jewish people to have than any other group (just look at Amy Winehouse, Ben Stiller or a lot of the people who went to my school).

It is essentially a religion, but because it's a small religion next to other widespread ones (probably less than 20 million jews worldwide), and they do hail from a small area, it is possible to be ethnically jewish.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 9 2009, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 8 2009, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Jews are now different races joined by one religion. That is where you see the kind of divides you are talking about.It is wrong to say they are one race.[/b]

but at the same time jews have more racial definition than any other global religion (by global I mean one that isn't limited to one specific country or culture).

For example, you'll find christians from everywhere; black/ maghreb/ arabic/ south asian/ far eastern muslims.

Jews however never had a homeland. Thus they formed communities all across Europe, in which they were the minority, and suffered varying degrees of persecution. There's records of Jews being expelled from England in the middle ages; there was a significant Jewish presence in Morocco before they were chased out, and of course there were huge Jewish 'ghettos' from Italy to Russia. Then suddenly they're given Israel to go and settle.

So Israelis can't be described as 'one race'; and anyone from Samoa to Iceland can convert to Judaism.

BUT

All of us will know there are certain characteristics which will tell us someone's probably Jewish. Surnames ending with -witz or -stein don't come from Hebrew, but tend to indicate someone's jewish. Also, there are features such as a hooked nose and darker complexion (typical of most semitic peoples); and a larger jaw which it's more common for jewish people to have than any other group (just look at Amy Winehouse, Ben Stiller or a lot of the people who went to my school).

It is essentially a religion, but because it's a small religion next to other widespread ones (probably less than 20 million jews worldwide), and they do hail from a small area, it is possible to be ethnically jewish.
[/b][/quote]

Exactly.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 8 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
but at the same time jews have more racial definition than any other global religion (by global I mean one that isn't limited to one specific country or culture).

For example, you'll find christians from everywhere; black/ maghreb/ arabic/ south asian/ far eastern muslims.[/b]

What about North Africa's Arabic Jews or East Africa's Jewish communities then? Haven't you heard of Operation Solomon or Operation Moses before? The racial definition card is way overplayed because it mostly applies to Europe's Jewish communities but when you go to Africa, it is a completely different story.
 
GAZA CITY, Gaza (CNN) — The United Nations has "lost confidence" in the Israeli military's attempts to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza after Israeli forces opened fire on a U.N. relief convoy on Thursday, the aid agency's director said.
A statement from U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon demanded a full investigation into the incident in which he said two contract workers were killed. UNRWA director John Ging said one aid worker was killed.
The U.N. Relief and Works Agency halted some of its operations after the incident, which took place near the Israel-Gaza border.

CNN report



ABC Australia Report

In the latest incident one person was killed when a truck convoy on its way to pick up UN assistance was hit by two tank shells in northern Gaza, a UN spokesman said citing the contractors.

"A convoy going towards Erez came under fire, according to the contractor," said the UNRWA's Chris Gunness.

"Two tank shells impacted near a forklift, and one person was killed," he said.

"The forklift trucks had been contracted to pick up UN goods," he said, adding that the convoy had been coordinated with the Israeli military.

Associated Press Report:

he U.N. suspended aid shipments in the Gaza Strip on Thursday and the Red Cross restricted its convoys after their trucks came under Israeli fire. The threat of a wider conflict arose when militants in Lebanon fired two rockets into northern Israel.

One rocket crashed into a retirement home, but there were no serious injuries. Israel responded with mortar shells.

The driver of the U.N. truck died immediately; another worker in the truck died later of his wounds. The truck, which came under fire in northern Gaza, was marked with the U.N. flag and insignia.

During a three-hour pause in the fighting to allow in food and fuel and let medics collect the dead, nearly three dozen bodies were found beneath the rubble of bombed out buildings in Gaza City.

Thought i'd recenter the debate on the real subject.

At the risk of triggering the unconditional and open minded love comments from my new best friend Danny, such as I quote: -1 Reputation "For being a free world hating ,terrorist sympathising idiot who needs to get a sense of humour and ditch his 6th form political views" or the very sharp: "You are every thing that is wrong with the French nation and the whole reason why your history is littered with cowardly defeat."

Please keep giving me negative reputation points my friend, it is so enriching arguing with you who can support all his declarations by solid knowledge and in-depth analysis.

You're such an example for us all, please enlighten us, Please...
 
Oh God!!! one thing I am deadly afraid of is Iran to fire their newly made Nuclear bombs at Israel


It has long been Islam authorities shaking fist at whole world and saying we have not seen the real Holocaust yet!!!


Israeli military forces are on terrible offense today and as authorities announce they are ready to stop and to sit around table

But this news are met by new rockets from Lebanon as well
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enguelaz @ Jan 9 2009, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
GAZA CITY, Gaza (CNN) â€" The United Nations has “lost confidence†in the Israeli military’s attempts to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza after Israeli forces opened fire on a U.N. relief convoy on Thursday, the aid agency’s director said.
A statement from U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon demanded a full investigation into the incident in which he said two contract workers were killed. UNRWA director John Ging said one aid worker was killed.
The U.N. Relief and Works Agency halted some of its operations after the incident, which took place near the Israel-Gaza border.

CNN report



ABC Australia Report

In the latest incident one person was killed when a truck convoy on its way to pick up UN assistance was hit by two tank shells in northern Gaza, a UN spokesman said citing the contractors.

"A convoy going towards Erez came under fire, according to the contractor," said the UNRWA's Chris Gunness.

"Two tank shells impacted near a forklift, and one person was killed," he said.

"The forklift trucks had been contracted to pick up UN goods," he said, adding that the convoy had been coordinated with the Israeli military.

Associated Press Report:

he U.N. suspended aid shipments in the Gaza Strip on Thursday and the Red Cross restricted its convoys after their trucks came under Israeli fire. The threat of a wider conflict arose when militants in Lebanon fired two rockets into northern Israel.

One rocket crashed into a retirement home, but there were no serious injuries. Israel responded with mortar shells.

The driver of the U.N. truck died immediately; another worker in the truck died later of his wounds. The truck, which came under fire in northern Gaza, was marked with the U.N. flag and insignia.

During a three-hour pause in the fighting to allow in food and fuel and let medics collect the dead, nearly three dozen bodies were found beneath the rubble of bombed out buildings in Gaza City.

Thought i'd recenter the debate on the real subject.

At the risk of triggering the unconditional and open minded love comments from my new best friend Danny, such as I quote: -1 Reputation "For being a free world hating ,terrorist sympathising idiot who needs to get a sense of humour and ditch his 6th form political views" or the very sharp: "You are every thing that is wrong with the French nation and the whole reason why your history is littered with cowardly defeat."

Please keep giving me negative reputation points my friend, it is so enriching arguing with you who can support all his declarations by solid knowledge and in-depth analysis.

You're such an example for us all, please enlighten us, Please...[/b]

Do we need any more reason? This calls for a UN-led invasion of Israel!

And ignore Danny's comments; he is everything that is wrong with England, and the whole reason they're history is littered with hypocritical impirialism.
 
A UN led invasion of Israel? That would be good. Replace a soverign democratic state with a bunch of Islamic extremists. Get in the f***ing real world.If you feel so strongly about helping the Palestinians why arnt you out there? You come on here spouting your anti-free world ******** , pretend your a Jew just to make your denouncement of Israels actions hold more weight. Well you should appreciate the freedom and life we live in Britain and what its taken through the ages to get to where we are rather than defend a completely alien set of values and religion.
To criticise Englands proud history shows you have no real grasp of reality and you certainly dont know your history.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 8 2009, 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 8 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
but at the same time jews have more racial definition than any other global religion (by global I mean one that isn't limited to one specific country or culture).

For example, you'll find christians from everywhere; black/ maghreb/ arabic/ south asian/ far eastern muslims.[/b]

What about North Africa's Arabic Jews or East Africa's Jewish communities then? Haven't you heard of Operation Solomon or Operation Moses before? The racial definition card is way overplayed because it mostly applies to Europe's Jewish communities but when you go to Africa, it is a completely different story.
[/b][/quote]

OK, there are more Jews in Golders Green than in Ethiopia. Probably. But still, it's on that kind of minor level... the population there isn't significant; whereas you'll agree that the places I mentioned for Christianity and Islam do have major populations.

And Danny, please STFU. Regardless of whether Fred is or isn't a jew, any denouncement of Israel has to hold a lot of weight. And please don't go on about England's history like you're talking of something sacred; we as a country have given humans huge amounts in terms of advancement; at the same time we've also committed some unforgivable atrocities, which make Israel look tame.

Knowing about history implies you can grasp the simple fact that there are two sides to every story, which means looking back at so-called heroes will identify flaws; looking back at villains will show that they did good too; and also that no country/ ethnie has a clean record when it comes to behaving towards others with what we'd call today 'human decency'.

If this sounds patronising then so be it; but I can't really say more to you than you're beginning to sound like one of those oafs from the BNP who are quick to jump on the bandwagon of any old phony nationalism, and come up with the sort of rhetoric that describes other cultures as 'alien'.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jan 5 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point was that I don't understand why Arab world should be more collective than Europe which I cited as an example not really to trigger the usual Euro scepticism comments.[/b]

Well what do you want me to say? Europe is disunited as a whole because it doesn't have one concurrent cultural connection of cause d'etiere. The Arab world however certainly does, specifically over Israel being there on what it envisions as its turf and general Western policy towards the region period. It tends to galvanise popular support across the Middle East.
[/b][/quote]
I think political disunity is good for Europe.

You slag me off about being pro-euro and all that, but my basic point is you should provide people with a fundamental system (currency, level market) and let them do whatever they want. Because people are mostly good, and they're much better than state employees (non-people) at figuring out what's wrong.

Security is a different matter - and veeery difficult!

I recommend you get a shotgun - otherwise the Munster wolves will devour your pink Saracen bunny rabbits. Again.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 9 2009, 06:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
All of us will know there are certain characteristics which will tell us someone's probably Jewish. Surnames ending with -witz or -stein don't come from Hebrew, but tend to indicate someone's jewish. Also, there are features such as a hooked nose and darker complexion (typical of most semitic peoples); and a larger jaw which it's more common for jewish people to have than any other group (just look at Amy Winehouse, Ben Stiller or a lot of the people who went to my school).[/b]
Amy says she's Jewish, but she's really an Arab - classic bone structure. Mind you, those chicken legs means she must be black. And the big sausage munching jaw? Prussian without doubt. Of course the ***s say USA all the way.

What about all the red haired Jews - definitely Irish, IMHO.

Surprised to hear you went to a Jewish school. Why the bitterness? Did you get a hot Stiller wedgie in the shower?

Seriously, semitic means Arab and Jew. And what about the Berbers - thought you had some sympathy for them. Why aren't they included in your rant?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 9 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
A UN led invasion of Israel? That would be good. Replace a soverign democratic state with a bunch of Islamic extremists. Get in the f***ing real world.If you feel so strongly about helping the Palestinians why arnt you out there? You come on here spouting your anti-free world ******** , pretend your a Jew just to make your denouncement of Israels actions hold more weight. Well you should appreciate the freedom and life we live in Britain and what its taken through the ages to get to where we are rather than defend a completely alien set of values and religion.
To criticise Englands proud history shows you have no real grasp of reality and you certainly dont know your history.[/b]

I don't know where to start correcting that. Firstly, it's incredibly presumptuous of you to assume I lack historical knowledge - I wouldn't have come to any conclusions about Israel or the British empire if I didn't know and understand them in-depth. If you really think that Israel is the 'free world' then you really need to invest in a dictionary; last time I checked, cutting off borders, and massacring civillians wasn't a form of 'freedom'. With that in mind, your accusation that I have seperated myself from reality is incredibly ironic - you seem to live in a world where Israel do only good, and the British empire was progressive.

I'm sorry, sir, but you are a deluded idiot.

But, seeing as you consider yourself such as history buff, could you please - using factual and logical evidence - justify the existence of the state of Israel...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 9 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jan 5 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point was that I don't understand why Arab world should be more collective than Europe which I cited as an example not really to trigger the usual Euro scepticism comments.[/b]

Well what do you want me to say? Europe is disunited as a whole because it doesn't have one concurrent cultural connection of cause d'etiere. The Arab world however certainly does, specifically over Israel being there on what it envisions as its turf and general Western policy towards the region period. It tends to galvanise popular support across the Middle East.
[/b][/quote]
I think political disunity is good for Europe.

You slag me off about being pro-euro and all that, but my basic point is you should provide people with a fundamental system (currency, level market) and let them do whatever they want. Because people are mostly good, and they're much better than state employees (non-people) at figuring out what's wrong. [/b][/quote]

I'd say that statement is very debatable, as my good friend Danny is proving. I'd say the best way to measure what proportion of people are 'good' is to study Nazi Germany. Many of the people who come across as 'good' in our society are actually just sheep, and only seem good because, on the whole, our society is quite a good one - which means as soon as you turn that around, most people go with the flow (be it good or bad). Relatively few people are 'good' regardless. 'Heart of Darkness' pretty much covers all of this'.
 
**** you guys get wound up over nothing! People are people! Jews have 2 arms 2 legs and a brain just as everyone else does.

For the people who are taking sides on this Gaza conflict, just remember that each side see's its own actions as completely justified given the past history between the two states etc. There is no clear-cut right and wrong in this situation. Condemning one side and supporting the other to the hilt is not only ignorant, but stupid! It's impossible for any of us to even come close to understanding the situation or what it's like to actually live in Israel or Palestine.
Have an opinion but make sure you're well informed before you start deriding ethnic groups or religions.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jan 9 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
**** you guys get wound up over nothing! People are people! Jews have 2 arms 2 legs and a brain just as everyone else does.

For the people who are taking sides on this Gaza conflict, just remember that each side see's its own actions as completely justified given the past history between the two states etc. There is no clear-cut right and wrong in this situation. Condemning one side and supporting the other to the hilt is not only ignorant, but stupid! It's impossible for any of us to even come close to understanding the situation or what it's like to actually live in Israel or Palestine.
Have an opinion but make sure you're well informed before you start deriding ethnic groups or religions.[/b]

I disagree completely; the right side and the wrong side became clear as soon as the whole conflict began in the late 40s. The simple fact of the matter is, there used to exist a nation called Palestine. Some British (ashamedly, a Scotsman) zionist conservative politician decides that should be the homeland for the Jews, so he gives the many other zionists the needed support to make that happen, allowing them to throw out the native peoples and declare the land to be 'Israel'. It's pretty black and white - they stole the land from it's natives, and have been opressing them ever since. The only reason people don't see it like that is because they are blind-sided by distaste for anti-semitism and 'terrorists'.
 
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