<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 15 2009, 06:42 AM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 13 2009, 01:04 PM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enguelaz @ Jan 13 2009, 11:19 AM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 13 2009, 03:17 AM)
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If you think those people being killed are all a bunch of innocent civilians your dead wrong... I guarantee you most are men and most are of fighting age.[/b]
How can you be so sure of this? Would you have sources of information we don't have access to? Please share them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 13 2009, 03:17 AM)
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Also do you really think a western army would want to engage the Israeli military in any sort of Combat whatsoever, yes lets invade Israel and you'll see D-Day like casualties.[/b]
You're right. The western world has too much to lose if they were to attack Israel and as you say, there would be too many human casualties. but also the U.S wouldn't be too happy to bomb and destroy their own tanks, planes and other weaponry.
We all know Israel is a fairly small country, but what people do not know much is that Israel has the 6th or 7th most powerful army in the WORLD, which makes it easily the most powerful army in the middle east now that Irak as been colonised.
but wait, there's also this:
"According to the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Federation of American Scientists, Israel possesses around 75â€"200 nuclear weapons. Imagery analysts can identify weapon bunkers, mobile missile launchers, and launch sites in satellite photographs. Israel may have tested a nuclear weapon along with South Africa in 1979, but this has never been confirmed (see Vela Incident).
On May 26, 2008, ex-US president Jimmy Carter stated that Israel has "150 or more nuclear warheads" at a press conference at the annual literary Hay festival in Wales."
So yeah, for sure, no one is going to f#ck with Israel, which lead me to the conclusion that Hamas:
- either don't know what we know but i doubt it,
- are completely out of their mind and are going for the suicidal tactics, which wouldn't be surprising, any fanatic of any confession would consider suicide if it serves their purpose... (but what purpose? being annihilated?)
- or this war has got an other purpose or even is a decoy... but this we'll never really know.
When you start digging the newspapers on Israel's activity you start to find interesting things like this:
Mossad 'hit' on Iranian nuke scientist
U.S. Rejected Aid for Israeli Raid on Iranian Nuclear Site
Israel And Iran Scramble In The Shadows
Funny how they want to keep their nuclear program secret but are trying to do anything in their power to stop Iran doing the same thing they do...
I guess what i am trying to say is: Just don't look at the face value of this war, but also consider the causes and most importantly the consequences of this war on the middle east.
No wonder why most people (me included) understand nothing to this war. I mean, come on, it has been going on for about 50 years... if there was ever a chance of peace, they'd have found it by now don't you think?
So are they fighting until one or the other completely disappears? Is it a hardcore "team deathmatch"? for what purpose? Hamas knows they have no chance to withstand Isreal's firepower... is it for territory? Israel already took over 95% of Palestine and again, Hamas do not have the means to take back territory by force...
Is it about Ideology, a Holly War? most people would think so... but then again, for example, how come there are more than 20.000 jewish living in Iran, and they seem to do just fine in a country "ranked in the top 5" "bad guys" on this planet.
Why, despite all the sweet talking of the politics all around the world, does the UN and the powers that be take no action to stop ONCE AND FOR ALL Hamas firing rockets at Israel and stop Israel breaching international laws and bombing the sh*t out Gaza.
So ask yourself this question: What the hell is really going on out there?
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They didn't mind at all in Iraq (for anyone who isn't aware, the US supplied Saddam with many of his weapons). But I agree - I just can't see international military action against Israel as something very likely to happen anytime soon. Probably just some meaningless U.N. sanctions - just like the League of Nations during the buildup to the Second World War...
[/b][/quote]
Yes the US supplied Saddam with his weapons because you know all the weapons the Baathist Iraqi army was using were American in make... yah right ... Saddam's army was a Warsaw Pact style army with Eastern European and Soviet made weaponry with a smattering of Western European military technology (ref: French Mirage Fighter planes)...
The West does nothing about the Israeli-Palestinian problem because it isn't our goddamn problem. The UN isn't some goddamn world policing force and shouldn't be used as such.... the way you speak of the UN and how they should put a stop to Hamas... its as if they have some sort of Private army at their disposal... they don't, UN missions are a thing of the past because the unified command structure necessary for effective military command does not exist in the UN. Which is why NATO has taken the lead in Afghanistan under the banner of a UN resolution because the Unified military command structure exists to operate effectively there.
As for Insurgents in the Gaza I don't know what the hell you classify an insurgent as but when someone is shooting at me without an identifiable uniform on he is an insurgent. Sorry if I use military jargon sometimes but my background has made it a force of habit.
Quite Frankly, regardless of what some people make think about the State of Israel, world security is enhanced with its presence. Having a Western backed army with very large power projection in its region of operations forces other states such as Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc.... to act in a more appropriate manner. It gives them a common enemy of sorts which is better for us because imagine if Israel did not exist, who would the Arabs have to fight then??? Well each other of course.
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Firstly, check your facts before trying to correct somebody - the US supplied Saddam with arms in the 80s, when he was fighting Iran. Also, Israel
is our problem, because we created it, so you can hardly say it has nothing to do with us.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 15 2009, 07:45 AM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 14 2009, 11:03 AM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 14 2009, 06:54 AM)
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You forgot to mention that America is the biggest donator of aid to the Palestinians. Just thought Id add some balance to the discussion. Also on a less important note HOW IRNOIC! that you couldnt accept my offer of friendship(peace) without everything being just as you want it. Sounds familiar????[/b]
That isn't irony, it's just common sense; I'm not going to accept the 'friendship' of someone who stands by their judgement that I am a liar, just as the Palestinians aren't going to accept 'peace' from a nation who refuse to return any of the land they stole, because that isn't an offer at all, it's basically just saying, 'we have what we want, now stop attacking us'. Is it really that difficult to understand?
Moreover - if you really wanted friendship, you wouldn't think I was a liar; why would anybody want to befriend a liar? If you really wanted that, then I'd be vary dubious as to your motives. You really can't have it both ways and say: "you're a liar, but let's be friends".
All you're doing is trying to take the high ground and make everybody sympathise with you and villainize us (remind you of anyone?) But i, for one, am not buying it until/if you prove me wrong.
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Just so you know the "Palestinians" never owned that land prior to the creation of Israel the land was a British Protectorate known as Palestine. Prior to that it was controlled by an Ottoman Sultan in istanbul... Fact is this so called Palestinian state of yours has never actually existed.
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Talk about completely missing the point. Regardless of whether or not they had independance, the Palestinian people had lived there for centuries. If you really think that, just because it isn't officially an independant nation, it's absolutely fine to take over and exile the inhabitants, then you are either very, very stupid, or pure evil.
Analogy; as you might know, us Scots have not been an independant nation for centuries, but does that make our claim to Scotland illegitimate? No, it doesn't, and Palestine's situation was almost exactly the same. Your point is meaningless.
