Wallabies Best 22

[kbourke88]

Post the triumph against the ABs on saturday night, Robbie Deans is posed with a few massive selection headaches.

What do you think the Wallabies best 22 will be?

1) Kepu
2) TTPN / Moore
3) Alexander
4) Vicks
5) Horwill
6) Rocky (stepped up another notch)
7) Pocock
8) Samo (surely after that performance)
9) Genia
10) Cooper
11) Digby
12) ??
13) ??
14) ??
15) KB

16) Slipper
17) Moore/TTPN
18) Sharpe
19) ??
20) ??
21) Burgess
22) ??

So I reckon there are a few massive questions to ask here.

McCabe / Barnes / Faingaa at 12?
AAC / Faingaa at 13?
JOC / Mitchell / AAC at 14?

4/3 bench or 5/2 bench?
If its 5/2 bench, you can carry Higgers and Palu, but one back out of Barnes / Mitchell misses out.
If its 4/3, I reckon Higgers misses out, and you can carry both Barnes and Mitchell on the bench.

AAC had his best game of the year on the wing. I love him on the wing. But then where do you put JOC.

I don't think McCabe/Faingaa is our best centre combo, so I think one of them is 12 and the other is out of the 22.
I would see AAC at 13, JOC at 14, Barnes on bench, with 5/2 so that we see Higgers and Palu, and Mitchell misses out (even though he had an awesome season)

Would love to hear people's thoughts

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For me:

12. Fainga'a (don't understand all the fuss about McCabe)
13. AAC
14. Mitchell (shame to drop O'Connor, but Mitchell is my favourite Wallaby )


19. Higginbotham (makes a better impact off of the bench than starting)
20. Burgess
21. Barnes
22. JOC

 

[psychic duck]

For me:

12. Fainga'a (don't understand all the fuss about McCabe)
13. AAC
14. Mitchell (shame to drop O'Connor, but Mitchell is my favourite Wallaby)


19. Higginbotham (makes a better impact off of the bench than starting)
20. Burgess
21. Barnes
22. JOC

I agree that Fainga'a is better than McCabe, but if you want Mitchell and Ioane in the side, maybe O'Connor could play centre instead of an out of form Ashley-Cooper

 

[Ostrayian]

JOC wearing the 22 jersey or 12. More likely 22 due to lack of experience at 12 at test level. He is a liability in defense on the wing and his kicking has been crap of late, but injected off the bench i could see him burning a lot of tired legs.
I like both Faingaa and McCabe but I agree we only need one of them. I would toss a coin between the 2 to wear the 13 jersey....with both ahead of Horne(still amazed he's in the squad). Adam 2 dads to stay on the wing which has always been his best position. Defensively solid against the AB'd jets and huge workrate off the ball.
Id have Berrick Barnes at 12 to take a bit of the playmaking pressure off QC. Hopefully he can last the tournament with out getting smacked up again.
Swap Alexander and Kepu over. TPN in for more to bolster the scrum and more physicality. Sharpey in for first 40. The lineout was horrible without him and we need to have the set piece on song especially against the likes of England who we're likely to face in the semi. If Vickermans calling improves then no dramas him starting for his aggression. McCalman ahead of Palu. Totally not down with giving a spot to someone who hasnt played much rugby the last 2 years.
5/2 split on the bench.
Would loved to have Mitchell in there. Could also go 11 Ioane 12 Barnes 13 AAC 14 Mitchell as well


1 Alexander
2 TPN
3 Kepu
4 Horwill
5 Sharpe
6 Elsom
7 Pocock
8 Samo
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Ioane
12 Barnes
13 Faingaa/McCabe
14 Ashley-Cooper
15 Beale

16 Moore
17 Slipper
18 Vickerman
19 Higgenbotham
20 McCalman
21 Burgess
22 JOC

 

[psychic duck]

JOC wearing the 22 jersey or 12. More likely 22 due to lack of experience at 12 at test level. He is a liability in defense on the wing and his kicking has been crap of late, but injected off the bench i could see him burning a lot of tired legs.

Maybe you're right regarding experience at 12 at international but is he really a liability in defense on the wing? I always thought he okay, and I've seen a lot worse

Adam 2 dads to stay on the wing which has always been his best position.

I disagree, Ashley-Cooper is wasted on the wing where he is so-so, in RWC 07 he was preferred to Mitchell in the quarter final because he was more "solid" but the Wallabies missed Mitchell's attack in that match, and Drewster was on awesome form at the time as well

Ashley-Cooper vs France last year proved to me his best position is outside centre, but he has lost form since then after playing wing in a poor Brumbies side

 

[Sam91]

11. JOC
12. Fainga'a
13. Ioane
14. Mitchell

Think diggers is more than good enough/capable to play centre, would also provide two wingers that can kick well.

 

[Ostrayian]

Maybe you're right regarding experience at 12 at international but is he really a liability in defense on the wing? I always thought he okay, and I've seen a lot worse



I disagree, Ashley-Cooper is wasted on the wing where he is so-so, in RWC 07 he was preferred to Mitchell in the quarter final because he was more "solid" but the Wallabies missed Mitchell's attack in that match, and Drewster was on awesome form at the time as well

Ashley-Cooper vs France last year proved to me his best position is outside centre, but he has lost form since then after playing wing in a poor Brumbies side

Its not JOC's tackling as such. He seems to get caught out of position on the wing or fullback and the AB's have exploited this numerous times. He's a better defender inside.
The quarterfinal in 07 all of theaussie backs not just AAC were dreadful because our pack was getting smashed at every facet by the english. Its no surprise that when our pack played with some balls for once it gave our backs more room and quicker ball to operate against the AB's. To make Genia and Coopers high kicks effective we need guys who want to chase the ball and put the receiver under heaps of pressure like what Ioane and AAC do. Neither Mitchell or JOC are any good at chasing for the most part and if they do its usually half hearted. But as I mentioned earlier I wouldnt be upset to see AAC at 13 to make room for Mitchell.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I agree that Fainga'a is better than McCabe, but if you want Mitchell and Ioane in the side, maybe O'Connor could play centre instead of an out of form Ashley-Cooper

Good point - I'm still thinking of the AAC from a season or two ago

12. JOC
13. Fainga'a

22. AAC

I think AAC's best position is fullback anyway (though Beale is better than him there) so playing 22 would probably be a better use of his skills as he can cover 11/13/14/15 to a high standard, with Barnes covering 10/12 - you'd have good coverage on the bench for every backs position

 

[madflyhalf]

Kepu
Moore
Alexander

Horwill
Sharpe (Vicks is a better impact player, lineout without Sharpe crumbles)

Elsom
Pocock
Samo

Genia
Cooper

Mitchell (against running teams and SA) / Ioane (against home nations and All Blacks)
McCabe
Ashley-Cooper
JOC
Beale

TPN
Slipper
Vickerman
Higginbotham
Burgess
Barnes
Ioane/Mitchell


I put AAC because Fainga'a and McCabe have no idea how to attack, they defended magnificently, but didn't create anything. Work on AAC to bring back him in 2010 form, would be the correct choice, because they can't play without a decent kicker.

JOC is in 14 jersey and deserved it.

But... an alternative option is to drop McCabe (unlikely), Barnes can play at 12, with JOC on the bench and AAC wings in and Fainga'a outside centre.

Deans won't never move Ioane or JOC at centres. Best team means the best players in their best position, based upon form and familiarity too.

 

[Ostrayian]

Looks like AAC wants back in at 13.....nice selection headaches for Deans to have atm.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I can only go on what I've seen, but I'd say something like a backline of:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Giteau/Barnes
13. O'Connor
14. Mitchell
15. Beale

20. Burgess
21. Giteau/Barnes
22. Ashley-Cooper

Untill Drew Mitchell's back, put AAC in at 13 and move JOC to the wing. Fainga'a isn't too far off, but Pat McCabe must be a no-no. He's been very underwhelming in the Tri-Nations.

 

[Darwin]

1. Kepu
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Simmons (Vickermann was good on Saturday, but Simmons has been quality all year)
5. Horwill
6. Elsom (50/50 between him and Higginbotham - hard to make a call until Higginbotham gets a start in the 6 jersey. I'd start Elsom at this stage simply because Higginbotham is a better impact player from the bench)
7. Pocock
8. Samo
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane (Simply because Mitchell isn't match fit - when he is fit I'm really undecided who out of Ioane, Mitchell, and O'Connor to leave off the wing)
12. McCabe (Don't understand the criticism McCabe seems to be getting - he's been very good for Australia. His direct running is exactly what Australia needs to complement their backline full of creative players and steppers. Importantly McCabe's defence is phenomenal - during the Tri Nations he made 49 tackles and missed only 1 (average of 12.5/game at a 98% tackling percentage). He completely nullified the AB's and Boks in the midfield, which is one of of the key reasons Australia won the Tri Nations this year (in previous years Australia's midfield defence has been a bit suspect at times). Faingaa would also do a great job at 12, so I wouldn't mind using him their either. I think it would be a mistake to put either O'Connor or Barnes at 12.)
13. Ashley-Cooper (Wouldn't put Ioane there as he doesn't pass the ball - there is no point in having outstanding outside backs if they don't get the ball!)
14. O'Connor (assuming he turns up....)
15. Beale

16. Polota-Nau
17. Slipper
18. Vickermann (not sure yet between Sharpe and Vickermann)
19. Higginbotham
20. Palu (Assuming Palu is fit, he'd be a great impact player off the bench replacing a Samo after 50-60 mins)
21. Burgess
22. Faingaa

 

[madflyhalf]

With Barnes fit, do you think RD would stick with 5-2 split?

He said Barnes is QC backup, that means he will be on the bench, as Deans doesn't consider JOC or Beale as primary option for flyhalf backup. IMO he was just waiting for OK from the doctors and some minutes on player's legs.
I think Barnes will be surely in the 22... but after that, I suppose he would bring back the old fashioned 5-3 split, with Burgess, Barnes and an other.
Mitchell, AAC or Fainga'a, based on form.

I'm fine too with McCabe, really impressed me, but in the centres they must create something, McCabe doesn't pass the ball even if he's a gun pointed to his head, Fainga'a would be quite far from QC... Horne for 2nd tier matches, AAC against Italy surely, but I'm not so sure on picking him in front of BOD... Missile-tackle Finger can be a serious option. Along with McCabe they would be a bomb-proof wall.

 

[Darwin]

With Barnes fit, do you think RD would stick with 5-2 split?

He said Barnes is QC backup, that means he will be on the bench, as Deans doesn't consider JOC or Beale as primary option for flyhalf backup. IMO he was just waiting for OK from the doctors and some minutes on player's legs.
I think Barnes will be surely in the 22... but after that, I suppose he would bring back the old fashioned 5-3 split, with Burgess, Barnes and an other.
Mitchell, AAC or Fainga'a, based on form.

I'm not sure at this stage - I was tossing up in my mind between a 5/2 and 4/3 split. Though Barnes is Cooper's primary backup, I don't think that necessarily means he needs to be on the bench (for example SBW is Nonu's primary backup, but he is unlikely to be on the bench). If Cooper got injured I'd imagine Barnes would come straight into the starting lineup, but I think O'Connor/Beale would provide adequate backup in the match day 22, as Deans won't take Cooper off the field unless he is gets injured. I'm not saying that Barnes won't be on the bench (as I think there is a good chance he will), I just don't think he necessarily needs to be on the bench. I suppose we will find out what Deans has planned when he names his team vs Italy.

I'm fine too with McCabe, really impressed me, but in the centres they must create something, McCabe doesn't pass the ball even if he's a gun pointed to his head, Fainga'a would be quite far from QC... Horne for 2nd tier matches, AAC against Italy surely, but I'm not so sure on picking him in front of BOD... Missile-tackle Finger can be a serious option. Along with McCabe they would be a bomb-proof wall.

Playing 12 outside Cooper means you have very little chance to create anything. Cooper doesn't tend to just pass the ball out through the backs - he tends to take the ball to the line a lot before passing it out. This means that whenever McCabe got the ball this year he has been right on the advantage line, with the defenders right on him. Because of this I think he is the right player to have at 12, as he runs hard and generally gets past the advantage line. If anyone but Cooper was playing at 10 I would definately question McCabe's position at 12, as even when McCabe does get the ball with room to move he isn't creative (if Cooper got injured I'd probably play Barnes at 10 and O'Connor at 12...). I think McCabe is reasonably limited, but he is the ideal person to have outside Cooper.

 

[Sam91]

Fainga'a would be better at 12 over Mccabe, He is obviously much better at playing outside cooper, Just as solid in defence as Mccabe and pretty decent in Attack.

 

[kbourke88]

I really think that the most difficult decision for Deans is the 4/3 or 5/2 split. 4/3 you can take Barnes & Mitchell into the game, but leave out one of Higgers or Palu. and 5/2 is vice versa.

I think that its more likely that it will be a 4/3 for the big games and Higgers will miss out. Which is a shame for the big boy.

 

[BjR]

In my opinoin, you have to put Higginbotham in there somewhere. Either at 6 or 8, his ball skills give his team such an edge, he's very quick, aggressive and has great handling skills. We (New Zealand) should be very wary of him.

 

[madflyhalf]

I'm not sure at this stage - I was tossing up in my mind between a 5/2 and 4/3 split. Though Barnes is Cooper's primary backup, I don't think that necessarily means he needs to be on the bench (for example SBW is Nonu's primary backup, but he is unlikely to be on the bench). If Cooper got injured I'd imagine Barnes would come straight into the starting lineup, but I think O'Connor/Beale would provide adequate backup in the match day 22, as Deans won't take Cooper off the field unless he is gets injured. I'm not saying that Barnes won't be on the bench (as I think there is a good chance he will), I just don't think he necessarily needs to be on the bench. I suppose we will find out what Deans has planned when he names his team vs Italy.




Playing 12 outside Cooper means you have very little chance to create anything. Cooper doesn't tend to just pass the ball out through the backs - he tends to take the ball to the line a lot before passing it out. This means that whenever McCabe got the ball this year he has been right on the advantage line, with the defenders right on him. Because of this I think he is the right player to have at 12, as he runs hard and generally gets past the advantage line. If anyone but Cooper was playing at 10 I would definately question McCabe's position at 12, as even when McCabe does get the ball with room to move he isn't creative (if Cooper got injured I'd probably play Barnes at 10 and O'Connor at 12...). I think McCabe is reasonably limited, but he is the ideal person to have outside Cooper.

Of course I meant 4-3 split ahaha my bad!


I realize now I used a not appropriate word... saying "create" is wrong as you pointed out!

What I meant is he need to get more involved... creating opportunities for Cooper: I found McCabe and Fainga'a either too far from the ball, whenever Cooper did his breaks or half-gaps...
The only time he was near it was when Smith tackled him early ( ). IMO they don't give Cooper enough good options in attack, they were pretty ineffective when on field. I think Deans will try again AAC for a couple of matches as outside centre.