Wales vs Australia

[RugbyChump]

i) I was asking a rhetorical question, it did not directly reference you (though it was implicit, that's the point), thus I could not give a **** whether you've been trolling the supporters of other teams, or if this was a first. If it truly is, good on you, but give the poor attempts at sophistry a break.[/b]

No you directly alluded to me by your "who on their first day belittles other teams?" (not verbatim), as I had registered on that day and had a little pop against Australia; although it was hardly malign nor vitriolic. Boo hoo not everyone loves the Aussies always, tough shite. Another thing that is laughable is you claim I tried my hand at "sophistry" yet you go ahead and do it yourself, with some banal pseudo-intellectual w*nkery which is a little off

ii) I'm fully aware that many on this forum are arrogant, and indeed a lot of them are aussies. Australia does win, a lot, it's how it is, not an embellishment, a misrepresentation or a conceited thing to say . We have one of the best gold medal to head count ratios in the olympics (let alone the commonwealth games), easily one of the highest sport participation rates, and it shows, hence why Graham Henry stated his opinion that Australia was one of the best sporting nations in the world. Providing a simple reason why Aussies are sometimes rather immodest is not a signifier of my head being up my arse.[/b]

Well I applaud any nation that excels in a lot of sports, including Australia. However there are plenty of caveats around warning us of the perils of arrogance, complacency, underestimating and of course hubris (which I suggest you look up). The very definition of being arrogant is being up one's own proverbial, whether you like to admit it not. Making a half-witted attempt at side stepping that just makes it more evident dear fellow.

On the other hand, deliberately misinterpreting it as such while ignoring one's own presumptuous little diatribes is a signifier of being an absolute tard.[/b]

Now now don't get touchy by labelling me a tard, you don't do yourself any favours by that and you give more credence to a point of view which you visibly feel affronted by. If you think my comments were diatribes then my calling you 'precious' isn't an assumption built on a sandy foundation. For one I'm not bitter not have been abusive about the Australian victory. Remember "deliberately misinterpreting it as such while ignoring one's own presumptuous little.." wotsit. I merely challenged certain views on here; i.e. that Australia took its foot of the gas. I believe Australia deserved their victory given how they played in the first half, and there's nothing I've said here which contradicts by implication/direct reference that sentiment.

As for quoting my s.t.f.u post from ages back, I guess it would be rather hypocritical. It would be hypocritical if a tongue-in-cheek reply to an unfounded piece of invective actually constituted "collective arrogance," unfortunately for you it does not. There are ways of purporting it to be, and indeed you have tried, but when it comes down to it, saying that Australia rarely loses (followed by a wink emoticon) does not really come across as that imperious, especially when one compares it to the things that you've come out with.[/b]

Fortunately for me and at your expense I found it amusing. Especially since you devoted a paragraph explaining, justifying and ultimately vindicating the arrogance found amongst many Aussies as you said. Yet in the other quote the "STFU" one, you speak of having a "quiet confidence". Good job there son. The second quote was a poor choice by me, that's the only thing I'll concede. But you gave me a much better one instead so I guess it work nevertheless.

Losing is hard, unfortunately you're not accepting it with the same dignity as your welsh counterparts on this forum. Man up and stop having a b!tch.[/b]

Wakey wakey I'm Welsh, we're used to defeats and this latest one didn't come as a surprise. I don't particularly care about displaying 'dignity' nor grace. In fact I haven't disputed that Australia shouldn't have won given Wales' performance, however I disagree with certain little pointers made by others, which I have already briefly mentioned. I suggest you grow thicker skin if this is how you react to an innocuous and ultimately trivial post. It's you who needs to front up.

 

[Fushitsusha]

George Smith made Charvis and Williams look like amateurs on the weekend. I don't recall those two doing much of anything?

In my opinion Smith is still rightly just behind Richie McCaw as the best openside flanker in the world.

I don't think there's a single backrower in the Australian team I would want to get rid of in place of those two. I don't think that all of them are exactly world class material, but they're performing a lot stronger than their Welsh counterparts.

And just to clear up some rules for you -

Shoulder charge = yellow card

Thomas' hit on Barnes was a blatant late shoulder charge on Barnes because he knew he couldn't prevent the try.

Mortlock's hit on Thomas was a legal tackle timed perfectly.

I don't know why you don't have the mental capacity to tell the difference?

 

[RC]

Ok guys, i'm afriad i have to step in here.
There's too much slagging off.
The arguments were good initially, but there are too many personal comments going around.

Fushitsusha has brought this topic back onto rugby - if it strays from here again (to talk about arrogance, or whatever) i'm going to have to close this thread.

 

[timmyhoran]

To be honest Wales never looked like winning the game. They were EXTREMELY lucky to get the game at home and still couldn't make in count. Australia shut up shop at half time. Stirlo could have come back on if required but they knew the game was won and there are bigger fish to fry. I don't think Larkam was missed at all. Barnes played superbly. A lot of people in Australia think 18 year old Kurtley Beale, sitting at home is better. Either way Australian rugby's future is looking rosy and if we go forward another 1000 years I can't see Wales ever winning a world cup. Australian rugby has never had depth and we've done alright. Rugby's a 3rd teir sport in Australia so we'll probabaly never have depth. Depth is overrated. You can only have 15 on a field anyway. Saying Australia aren't as good a team without Mortlock, Latham and SMith. Well no ****. Great teams need great players. And Australia's not a great team its an alright team with some world class players.



Claiming Martyn Williams a slow, balding, old blood nut is better then George Smith is laughable. Wales and indeed all the NH teams have been very weak at the breakdown (probabaly because the likes of Martyn Williams are playing at 7). They simply don't go at the ball hard enough. The fact that Australia plays NZ so oftern certainly helps our rugby. The NH teams should play NZ as much as they can and learn. They should send the best teams not B teams because they want excuses and are scared to compete.

 

[stormmaster1]

To be honest Wales never looked like winning the game. They were EXTREMELY lucky to get the game at home and still couldn't make in count. Australia shut up shop at half time. Stirlo could have come back on if required but they knew the game was won and there are bigger fish to fry. I don't think Larkam was missed at all. Barnes played superbly. A lot of people in Australia think 18 year old Kurtley Beale, sitting at home is better. Either way Australian rugby's future is looking rosy and if we go forward another 1000 years I can't see Wales ever winning a world cup. Australian rugby has never had depth and we've done alright. Rugby's a 3rd teir sport in Australia so we'll probabaly never have depth. Depth is overrated. You can only have 15 on a field anyway. Saying Australia aren't as good a team without Mortlock, Latham and SMith. Well no ****. Great teams need great players. And Australia's not a great team its an alright team with some world class players.



Claiming Martyn Williams a slow, balding, old blood nut is better then George Smith is laughable. Wales and indeed all the NH teams have been very weak at the breakdown (probabaly because the likes of Martyn Williams are playing at 7). They simply don't go at the ball hard enough. The fact that Australia plays NZ so oftern certainly helps our rugby. The NH teams should play NZ as much as they can and learn. They should send the best teams not B teams because they want excuses and are scared to compete.

[/b]

How can you say depth isn't important. England probably have the most proffesional players in the world and that is why we're odds on to win the world cup. Oh hang on......... I think i'll just go bury my head in the sand again.

 

[davesigma]

li was shocked at how good barnes played on the weekend, i had only seen him when he was playing league as i don't watch the Reds that often and he seemed like a standard player with nothing special going, but he really was justr amazing especially for his age. and well wales did play fairly poorly but the australian first half was almost perfect barring a few handling errors.

 

[RugbyChump]

George Smith made Charvis and Williams look like amateurs on the weekend. I don't recall those two doing much of anything?[/b]

Try re-watching the second half. You know the final 40 minutes of a game, I'm sure you have the arithmetic capacity...

In my opinion Smith is still rightly just behind Richie McCaw as the best openside flanker in the world.[/b]

Big words, the Saffers I'd imagine have more potency there.

I don't think there's a single backrower in the Australian team I would want to get rid of in place of those two. I don't think that all of them are exactly world class material, but they're performing a lot stronger than their Welsh counterparts.[/b]

Martyn Williams & Colin Charvis have always been the scavengers for Wales, always putting in the hard work to secure ball or to scrag the odd one or two. Sure they were 'bested' by Smith et al on Saturday. Although that's only one game. One on one you seriously think Smith could outmuscle Charvis lol . Christ must be that Kangaroo p*ss (Foster's) you like so much. Williams may not have the brute power of Charvis but he's one of our best players and would certainly be amongst the best of the NH's flankers.

And just to clear up some rules for you -

Shoulder charge = yellow card

Thomas' hit on Barnes was a blatant late shoulder charge on Barnes because he knew he couldn't prevent the try.[/b]

In fairness the two of them were lucky not to get a yellow there. I think Steve "kicked him in the heeeeeed" (Wales v Scotland 6N 2006) Walsh was astute enough not to issue a yellow to Mortlock given that he hadn't issued a yellow or even a red to Thomas. There have been other instances which people have noted, apparently Shane Williams being tripped before getting to the ball (someone could clarify that for me?) and Mike Phillips shoeing Dunning I believe. However no one's been cited and frankly there's no point, the atmosphere was buzzing, it was a high tempo game and things like that tend to happen on such occasions.

Mortlock's hit on Thomas was a legal tackle timed perfectly.[/b]

Really numpty..

C'mon, you know it was the same. Difference being the timing, Mortlock got it right. From what I can see Mortlock didn't exactly try to wrap his arms around Thomas he just nailed him, fair play it was a good hit. Don't be so wall eyed as to exclude Mortlock from the same damning indictment just because he happens to play for your team. This is a man's game, if you can't take the hits then don't play, simple. That hit was hardly in the same category as the one Emerick made on Berkley during the England v USA game for instance.[/b]

So now you see it wasn't a proper tackle, he made no attempt whatsoever at trying to 'fully' (by that I mean using his arms) to tackle Thomas. The fact he made such a hit on Thomas after what he did to Berrick Barnes in my opnion wasn't a coincidence. You'll notice the commentator Stuart Barnes said that Mortlock was ok because his tackle was a 'fraction' late compared to Thomas' blatant late one. However the two tackles were the same.

I don't know why you don't have the mental capacity to tell the difference?[/b]

Attempting pseudo slanderous jibes doesn't do anything here other than show other I possibly aggravated a nerve. I clearly have and also elaborated a little more than you have. Although I won't put that down to lacking in mental prowess.

Double post because it wouldn't let me edit the first.

 

[Brodizzle]

Oki doke, to settle this we have two videos and a somewhat crappy quality picture I made up.

Gareth Thomas and his tackle around the 2 minute mark(close up that is)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftDfKI8WL6M

Mortlocks tackle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URAL_izFJOw

Finally a picture I did in paint with the initial collision of both tackles, note the difference between the left picture where there is the arm, clearly engaging in a tackle, while the one on the right is simply Gareth Thomas dropping his shoulder and going to town...

Now don't be going on about the quality of the image because the videos provided also show the exact same thing as in the image, there is no real room to move what-so-ever....Thomas is better then such petty actions....

 

[Javier_1964]

for me

Wales 26

Australia 24

for me

australia 37
wales 12 [/b]

 

[Brodizzle]

for me

Wales 26

Australia 24


<div class='quotemain'> for me

australia 37
wales 12 [/b]

[/b][/quote]
You are aware this game has already occured right?

 

[RugbyChump]

Oki doke, to settle this we have two videos and a somewhat crappy quality picture I made up.

Gareth Thomas and his tackle around the 2 minute mark(close up that is)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftDfKI8WL6M

Mortlocks tackle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URAL_izFJOw

Finally a picture I did in paint with the initial collision of both tackles, note the difference between the left picture where there is the arm, clearly engaging in a tackle, while the one on the right is simply Gareth Thomas dropping his shoulder and going to town...

Now don't be going on about the quality of the image because the videos provided also show the exact same thing as in the image, there is no real room to move what-so-ever....Thomas is better then such petty actions....
[/b]

Kudos to you :cheers:

I didn't have the luxury of a video recording to go over it and it did happen quick. Fair enough I'll concede there's a clear difference.

I can't be arsed with further arguing. Otherwise we'll end up in circles,

Btw Gareth Thomas is an idiot, he apparently is the reason why Mike Ruddock left. He doesn't do anything for Wales.

 

[yusef_2004]

<div class='quotemain'>
Oki doke, to settle this we have two videos and a somewhat crappy quality picture I made up.

Gareth Thomas and his tackle around the 2 minute mark(close up that is)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftDfKI8WL6M

Mortlocks tackle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URAL_izFJOw

Finally a picture I did in paint with the initial collision of both tackles, note the difference between the left picture where there is the arm, clearly engaging in a tackle, while the one on the right is simply Gareth Thomas dropping his shoulder and going to town...

Now don't be going on about the quality of the image because the videos provided also show the exact same thing as in the image, there is no real room to move what-so-ever....Thomas is better then such petty actions....
[/b]

Kudos to you :cheers:

I didn't have the luxury of a video recording to go over it and it did happen quick. Fair enough I'll concede there's a clear difference.

I can't be arsed with further arguing. Otherwise we'll end up in circles,

Btw Gareth Thomas is an idiot, he apparently is the reason why Mike Ruddock left. He doesn't do anything for Wales.
[/b][/quote]

Thomas is one of the best players in the World


Allez Toulouse

 

[RC]

...and if we go forward another 1000 years I can't see Wales ever winning a world cup.
[/b]

I don't hesitate to say this, but there's more than one reason that leads me in no other direction than to call you a F**king Idiot.

 

[Kahill]

Well, Wales did come close to Australia... although Drew Mitchell and Sharpe got sent off. Still, Australia are playing pretty dam good without Larkin. But Berrick Barnes (ex Brisbane Broncos ) is doing great.