Wales vs Australia

[Emric]

I think the 'whinging' of the ARU was entirely justified. In sending a second string side South Africa devalued and disrespected the entire Tri-Nations franchise. Sure, the World Cup's important. But if their top line players can't cope with one match each against Australia and New Zealand several months before the tournament then they're in a pretty sorry state. And remember, every rugby playing nation is competing in the same competition. What if the rest of them all decided no matches or tournaments were important enough to risk players in the year leading up to a WC? It was a bloody joke and SA should be ashamed. all of SANZAR have worked hard to make the Tri-Nations probably the most respected tournmament behind the WC and SA singlehandedly pulled it down.[/b]

I disagree. The mare fact that this so called B-team of South Africa remained competitive while touring both Australia and New Zealand (No easy requirement), goes to show how wrong your assessment is. I would have agreed that they were disrespecting the competition if Australia had destroyed the said team by more then 50 points not the end result which happened.

On top of this is the fact that with so few test matches each year, the ARU relies heavily ont he Tri-Nations matches to bring in revenue from bums on seats. Sending second string sides significantly lowers crowd numbers, which the ARU really can't afford. Remember, Union has to compete with three other football codes in Australia, most of which have higher player numbers and better overall funding. Given Australia's contributions to the Tri-Nations and global rugby in general over the years, SA's actions were a real slap in the face.
[/b]

South Africa have 100 years of successful bruising rugby behind them of which their record rivals that of the All Blacks. They are a Rugby Giant to be respected no matter what team they field on the day.

As for the problems of the ARU. Perhaps if they stopped complaining about the team South Africa was selecting and started working on developing a successful competitive club competition in Australia which rivaled that of curry cup, the perhaps Australia too could field their "B" side without a major drop in player quality.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

It's time that Australia realized that the reason they have any good players is because they are being consistently exposed to top levels of competition against the best South Africa and New Zealand have to offer. [/b]

oh my god i've never laughed so hard in my life.... that's was trully funny

 

[RC]

...Mind you I think if Sonny Parker is injured then I really think Gavin Henson should be called up to the squad. He may not be in the best of form but he is a match winner. Wales need players like that. [/b]

Music. To. My. Ears.

 

[Emric]

<div class='quotemain'> It's time that Australia realized that the reason they have any good players is because they are being consistently exposed to top levels of competition against the best South Africa and New Zealand have to offer. [/b]

oh my god i've never laughed so hard in my life.... that's was trully funny
[/b][/quote]


Because Australia has a really great national rugby competition right?

 

[Wally]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> It's time that Australia realized that the reason they have any good players is because they are being consistently exposed to top levels of competition against the best South Africa and New Zealand have to offer. [/b]

oh my god i've never laughed so hard in my life.... that's was trully funny
[/b][/quote]


Because Australia has a really great national rugby competition right?

[/b][/quote]
Talented players are talented players.. if they weren't playing top level rugby union they would be playing top level rugby league. Playing the All Blacks and the Springboks has nothing to do with it.

 

[Maccaweeny]

Have Australia not learned that no matter what team South Africa field, be it their under 12 Natal side or the best of the best that South Africa has to offer. The said team would rather commit collective suicide then disgrace the springbok jersey.

South Africa like New Zealand has the ability and potental to field several high quality rugby teams. They proved it when you're top team could only beat their so called "second" team by only 8points.

Never underestimate how good the local South African rugby competition is.

The Australian press might be a issue (What country doesn't have it's fair share of waste of space reporters?) But it was the winging of the Australian Rugby Union which annoyed me, combined with their blatant stab in the back of New Zealand over the rugby world cup vote. I used to support Australia, now I crave nothing more then the total destruction of Rugby in Australia, starting with booting them out of the Tri-nations, and reducing them to one test series every 3 years against the All Blacks, along with removing all their teams from the Super series.

It's time that Australia realized that the reason they have any good players is because they are being consistently exposed to top levels of competition against the best South Africa and New Zealand have to offer.
[/b]

I don't know why you're trying to take me up on this, as I was under the impression I was being rather conciliatory because I didn't want to be disrespectful to an older member, but anyway.

It's simple, while the reaction (from both Australia and NZ, it wasn't just the ARU that had the shits) was not exemplary, neither was the late decision by Jake White. There were contractual guidelines in the SANZAR agreement which stipulate bilateral cooperation and the maintaning of competitive sides. Not only did it violate some aspects of the agreement (not explicitly, and generally I don't think it a big deal), the problem was that the decision to rest the A team was made after tens of thousands of fans had bought tickets. It's in the law of torts that the consumer has a right of knowledge before purchasing a product, something that was violated by the decision to send a B team. Not only did it violate common law principle, it caused some people to lose a lot of money.

Furthermore, it wasnt long ago since the Australian side nailed the SA A-team by 50 points, so you can not blame the aussie fans for expecting an absolute walk-over, despite the fact that the B-team was in the end very competitive. Add on to this that a lot of people wanted issues to be resolved since the Newlands game, the reaction was understandable, if not 'right'.

I could go on for days about the disrespectful actions of other nations in concern to rugby, but in the end politics is an inherent part of the game. That's why I like to talk about other things (such as the actual game, hence the point of this thread) rather than how RU organisations always wave it around for no reason at all.

While I respect your opinion that Australian rugby union should be utterly destroyed, it's not something that interests me.

 

[mackka]

<div class='quotemain'>
I think the 'whinging' of the ARU was entirely justified. In sending a second string side South Africa devalued and disrespected the entire Tri-Nations franchise. Sure, the World Cup's important. But if their top line players can't cope with one match each against Australia and New Zealand several months before the tournament then they're in a pretty sorry state. And remember, every rugby playing nation is competing in the same competition. What if the rest of them all decided no matches or tournaments were important enough to risk players in the year leading up to a WC? It was a bloody joke and SA should be ashamed. all of SANZAR have worked hard to make the Tri-Nations probably the most respected tournmament behind the WC and SA singlehandedly pulled it down.[/b]

I disagree. The mare fact that this so called B-team of South Africa remained competitive while touring both Australia and New Zealand (No easy requirement), goes to show how wrong your assessment is. I would have agreed that they were disrespecting the competition if Australia had destroyed the said team by more then 50 points not the end result which happened.

On top of this is the fact that with so few test matches each year, the ARU relies heavily ont he Tri-Nations matches to bring in revenue from bums on seats. Sending second string sides significantly lowers crowd numbers, which the ARU really can't afford. Remember, Union has to compete with three other football codes in Australia, most of which have higher player numbers and better overall funding. Given Australia's contributions to the Tri-Nations and global rugby in general over the years, SA's actions were a real slap in the face.
[/b]

South Africa have 100 years of successful bruising rugby behind them of which their record rivals that of the All Blacks. They are a Rugby Giant to be respected no matter what team they field on the day.

As for the problems of the ARU. Perhaps if they stopped complaining about the team South Africa was selecting and started working on developing a successful competitive club competition in Australia which rivaled that of curry cup, the perhaps Australia too could field their "B" side without a major drop in player quality.
[/b][/quote]

Yes the side fielded by SA should be respected and I have no doubt that the players, coaching staff, fans and ARU all respected both the players and the team as a whole. However, irrespective of the quality of the players who arrived here, the willingness of SA to send a less competitive team and hence their lack of desire to actually win the competition devalues the whole tournament. What if they had sent their B team to the World Cup? Sure, they still would have been competitive but it would have shown they didn't give a rat's arse whether they won it. THAT'S the point. The Tri-Nations is meant to be one of the greatest showpieces of international rugby and SA went and shat all over it. The gripe was never with the players that were sent over who ultimately did themselves proud but with the SA rugby establishment. Even if SA had beaten Australia and NZ and won the tournament, they still would have devalued the Tri-Nations through their lack of commitment. Thus, the lack of cricket scores in the final matches is completely irrelevant.

PS. Re your last comment there, that's what the ARC is an attempt at doing.

 

[RugbyChump]

Good to see Australian arrogance alive and kicking. Yes Australia were 'impressive' in the first half but Wales hardly challenged them. Whether that was down to them trying to stick to Jenkins' dogmatic setpiece approach, woeful skills or a bit of both who knows. If I was an Aussie fan, I'd be more concerned with how they seem to unravel with the loss of key players such as Mortlock and Larkham. The one big factor that's plagued Wales is the lack of ball carrying explosive forwards to fully unlock and unable our backs to really cause some damage. We constantly get bashed around and knocked back, which makes it hard to get decent ball. Australia seem to be the Ireland of late, a great team but take out a few key players (i.e O'Driscoll, O'Gara, 'O'Connell) and you're in trouble. Having said that the only teams that truly have strength in depth are New Zealand and possibly France.

 

[Fushitsusha]

Good to see Australian arrogance alive and kicking. Yes Australia were 'impressive' in the first half but Wales hardly challenged them.
[/b]

Keep telling yourself that buddy.

The fact is Wales just aren't as good as what they were two years ago.

Australia was always going to win this game and in the end the scoreline flattered the Welsh.

At the moment Wales just don't have players in the same league as George Smith, Chris Latham, and Stirling Mortlock.

If anything it was the Wallabies who eased up in the second half allowing Wales to come back into the game.

Shane Williams should consider himself lucky that Connolly selected what is probably the worst defender in the backline to cover him on the weekend.

I'm just dissapointed that Mitchell didn't get cited because now he's likely to get more gametime.

 

[Maccaweeny]

Who the f***, on the day they joins, starts having a dig at other teams?

"Good to see Australian arrogance alive and kicking."

It never died tard, try living in a country which rarely loses and stay modest

 

[Fushitsusha]

Who the f***, on the day they joins, starts having a dig at other teams?

"Good to see Australian arrogance alive and kicking."

It never died tard, try living in a country which rarely loses and stay modest
[/b]

The irony is that their comment was filled with arrogance.

 

[Juggernaut]

Australia seem to be the Ireland of late, a great team but take out a few key players (i.e O'Driscoll, O'Gara, 'O'Connell) and you're in trouble. [/b]

Didnt those 3 players played against Georgia recently.??

 

[Fushitsusha]

<div class='quotemain'>Australia seem to be the Ireland of late, a great team but take out a few key players (i.e O'Driscoll, O'Gara, 'O'Connell) and you're in trouble. [/b]

Didnt those 3 players played against Georgia recently.??
[/b][/quote]

Ha!

That's what I was thinking!

If Australia lose Mortlock, but have Ashley-Cooper fit to play there certainly won't be any trouble.

Ashley-Cooper is MORE than capable at causing trouble for other teams at outside centre.

 

[stormmaster1]

That was the fantastic win against Wales. Wales are a very good team imo, better than England/Scotland/Italy and they could have pulled an upset against Australia, but we are in good form atm.

[/b]

Being better than Scotland/Italy/England may be true, but it doesn't make them a good side. A good win over decent opposition will do that. Not seen any of that from Wales for a while.

 

[RC]

A year ago both Wales and Australia were poor teams. I think all in all, the game can be summed up with two simple statements:

- Wales have not progressed in that time.
- Australia have.

 

[RugbyChump]

Keep telling yourself that buddy.

The fact is Wales just aren't as good as what they were two years ago.

Australia was always going to win this game and in the end the scoreline flattered the Welsh.

At the moment Wales just don't have players in the same league as George Smith, Chris Latham, and Stirling Mortlock.[/b]

I don't need to keep telling myself because I'm not that uncertain about my opinion. Even Dai Jones from down the pub would know that Wales aren't as good as late 2004/ early2005. That's hardly news lol.

Wales were the underdogs obviously because of 'recent' performances, however we didn't exactly get hammered and it's something that we came back in the second half to at least attempt to claw back some points.

I would pick Martyn Williams and Colin Charvis over George Smith thank you very much. George Smith did very well in stopping Jonathan Thomas with that try didn't he. Our backs aren't the problem, it's the lack of power in the forwards which is limiting the style of rugby we can play. So are George Smith, Chris Latham and Stirling Mortlock the only ones you can name?

If anything it was the Wallabies who eased up in the second half allowing Wales to come back into the game.[/b]

Hardly, Wales just didn't step up in the first half. We've been playing a style of game that doesn't suit or us, or one we are ill-equipped to execute. Which is domination by forward play. Once we opened up our play we had some go forward and your defence started to buckle. Also you looked exposed without Striling Mortlock and Laaaaaarkham, which for an Australian perspective is worrying. It's also interesting to note that Scott Johnson was the former skills coach for Wales, and now he's the attack coach for Australia. Which is bound to give some insight at least.

Shane Williams should consider himself lucky that Connolly selected what is probably the worst defender in the backline to cover him on the weekend.[/b]

No no, consider yourself lucky that Shane Williams did not have more space or time on the ball. Didn't you see the runs he was making? He made Drew Mitchell look like a OAP in 2005.

I'm just dissapointed that Mitchell didn't get cited because now he's likely to get more gametime.
[/b]

What a shame.

Who the f***, on the day they joins, starts having a dig at other teams?[/b]

Singular, only Australia. Get it right. This is a web forum, all kinds of opinion will be voiced here.

It never died tard, try living in a country which rarely loses and stay modest
[/b]

Don't be precious by calling me a tard, I guess 'tact' has never been something you've grasped down there. Arrogance is not an attractive quality, get too far up your own arse and it's a long and dark way out.

Didnt those 3 players played against Georgia recently.?[/b]

They did indeed, but I was referring to the time when Ireland played good rugby late 2006/early 2007. You took out a few key players and they would struggle.

Nowadays I don't know what's going, possessed by ghosts of christmas past would be a likely explanation.

 

[RugbyChump]

His hit on Barnes was disgraceful, but i think he got his just desserts when he got twatted by Mortlock a few minutes later :lol: classic stuff.

Good to see Barnes get up and play on, tough kid, he was brilliant in the first half.[/b]

So you think the Gareth Thomas hit is disgraceful but it's ok for Mortlock to do it because he's 'retaliating' lol?

Well he got his first taste of international rugby with that hit, fairly amusing. The Welsh pundits on the Scrum V programme kind of laughed, although they don't condone that sort of behaviour.

This made me laugh :-

It's a moronic thing to do, this collective arrogance does nothing but motivate the other team. So s.t.f.u and adopt some quiet confidence, this is rugby and anything can happen on the day.[/b]

....

It never died tard (arrogance), try living in a country which rarely loses and stay modest [/b]

:bravo:

 

[Brodizzle]

RugbyChump:

You would seriously pick Martyn WIlliams and Colin Charvis over George Smith? What are you high?

The tackle by Mortlock on Thomas= Legit The one by Thomas on Barnes=Disgraceful, go watch league if you want to see those kind of things, the rule about using the arms is there for a reason...

"Don't be precious by calling me a tard, I guess 'tact' has never been something you've grasped down there. Arrogance is not an attractive quality, get too far up your own arse and it's a long and dark way out."

That has to be one of the most arrogant passage I have read in a forum in a long time, yet you are the one accusing another of the very same problem? Also don't patronise the guy by calling him 'precious', it's just petty.

 

[RugbyChump]

You would seriously pick Martyn WIlliams and Colin Charvis over George Smith? What are you high?[/b]

Clearly any opinion that differs from yours must result from sniffing/snorting/smoking substances

The tackle by Mortlock on Thomas= Legit The one by Thomas on Barnes=Disgraceful, go watch league if you want to see those kind of things, the rule about using the arms is there for a reason... [/b]

C'mon, you know it was the same. Difference being the timing, Mortlock got it right. From what I can see Mortlock didn't exactly try to wrap his arms around Thomas he just nailed him, fair play it was a good hit. Don't be so wall eyed as to exclude Mortlock from the same damning indictment just because he happens to play for your team. This is a man's game, if you can't take the hits then don't play, simple. That hit was hardly in the same category as the one Emerick made on Berkley during the England v USA game for instance.

That has to be one of the most arrogant passage I have read in a forum in a long time, yet you are the one accusing another of the very same problem? Also don't patronise the guy by calling him 'precious', it's just petty.[/b]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. It's hardly arrogant, I'm not claiming to be superior nor better to anyone. I suggest you look it up in the dictionary. I also wasn't patronising him, just thought he was a little too sensitive to the comment, which is what I meant by 'precious'. I'll post in a manner I see fit. Don't skew my words just to fit your argument.

 

[Maccaweeny]

<div class='quotemain'>
Who the f***, on the day they joins, starts having a dig at other teams?[/b]

Singular, only Australia. Get it right. This is a web forum, all kinds of opinion will be voiced here.

It never died tard, try living in a country which rarely loses and stay modest
[/b]

Don't be precious by calling me a tard, I guess 'tact' has never been something you've grasped down there. Arrogance is not an attractive quality, get too far up your own arse and it's a long and dark way out.
[/b][/quote]


i) I was asking a rhetorical question, it did not directly reference you (though it was implicit, that's the point), thus I could not give a **** whether you've been trolling the supporters of other teams, or if this was a first. If it truly is, good on you, but give the poor attempts at sophistry a break.

ii) I'm fully aware that many on this forum are arrogant, and indeed a lot of them are aussies. Australia does win, a lot, it's how it is, not an embellishment, a misrepresentation or a conceited thing to say . We have one of the best gold medal to head count ratios in the olympics (let alone the commonwealth games), easily one of the highest sport participation rates, and it shows, hence why Graham Henry stated his opinion that Australia was one of the best sporting nations in the world. Providing a simple reason why Aussies are sometimes rather immodest is not a signifier of my head being up my arse.

On the other hand, deliberately misinterpreting it as such while ignoring one's own presumptuous little diatribes is a signifier of being an absolute tard.

As for quoting my s.t.f.u post from ages back, I guess it would be rather hypocritical. It would be hypocritical if a tongue-in-cheek reply to an unfounded piece of invective actually constituted "collective arrogance," unfortunately for you it does not. There are ways of purporting it to be, and indeed you have tried, but when it comes down to it, saying that Australia rarely loses (followed by a wink emoticon) does not really come across as that imperious, especially when one compares it to the things that you've come out with.

Losing is hard, unfortunately you're not accepting it with the same dignity as your welsh counterparts on this forum. Man up and stop having a b!tch.