Wales v Australia

[dullonien]

Warburton hasn't been playing all that well for the Blues, but I'd still pick him for Wales, not because he's better than Williams but because he needs to gain experience. He's played well for Wales every time he's played, and I still feel he may add another ball carrier that we are lacking, something Martyn Williams doesn't.

On the other hand, if Gatland picks the unexperienced Lydiate at 6, then maybe the experience of Martyn Williams along side him will be important, at least for the first game. Don't really mind either way, but I want to see Warbuton get a decent amount of game-time over the four games.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I still feel he may add another ball carrier that we are lacking, something Martyn Williams doesn't.

Hold on right there ...

Martyn Williams offers more ball carrying options that Warburton does. The only reason why Warburton will get picked infront is because people are arguing that he gets bullied easily at the breakdown compared to years gone past. Warburton brings physicality at the breakdown and what he offers as a ball carrier is limited to that of what Williams offers, its always been argued when Wales play Williams at 7 its like having another back and thats good for when we want to play an open game of rugby, but if we want to be a physical side then you have to look at Warburton!

 

[dullonien]

They offer different kinds of ball carrying Cymro. Martyn Williams has the ability to beat a defender with his footwork and make a break or half break, true. But what I mean here is ball carrying in a forwards sense, driving forwards carrying a defender with him. We all know Martyn Williams has never been the physical kind of 7, what he is is skilfull, quick, has great technique and an overall awesome rugby brain that has allowed him to out-think the majority of his opponents over the years. Warburton lacks that rugby brain to an extent, but he has greater physicality and the ability to break tackles going forward.

Not knocking Martyn in the slightest. He's a great player and I'm sure he's still got plenty to offer Wales up to the end of the WC. But sometimes we can't simply pick the best player, but must instead look at the backrow unit as a whole. We haven't got that carrying machine that the Blues have in Rush, therefore that workload will have to be shared between many. JT, Bradley Davies, Lydiate, Alun-Wyn, Gethin Jenkins and Matthew Rees all carry a reasonable amount of ball, even Adam Jones offers himself on occasions. Maybe that's enough, but in the past, even with those players we've struggled to get go forward ball in the forwards against the big 3, especially NZ and SA, so maybe there's a need to one more in Warburton. I'm not really sure, I'll leave that decision up to Gatland, but just an observation really.

Edit: I also feel that the days of being able to play an open game without go-forward ball in the forwards first is close to being over. In 2005 and 2008 our forwards stood up to be counted for, and as a such our backs flourished on the back of consistently quick ball. Martyn Williams flourishes in teams like this, where he can be that perfect link man between the forwards and backs alongside the scrum half. The rest of the time, Wales have been bullied by teams up front which makes Williams' job much harder. He can no longer be that link man that he's so good at, as he's needed to do the nitty gritty, something he's never been as good at as some others, it's simply not his strength. So it all depends on the rest of the pack and how they're going, Warburton of course offers something Williams can't, and vice versa. For once it's nice to have the option, and although Warburton hasn't proven himself yet on the international stage he must be given the opportunity before the WC, or I think we'll come to regret it.

Further Edit: gotta add here that Josh Turnbull also has the ability to be that tough, physical openside. Warburtn also has competition on his hands for that role. I personally feel Turnbull is more of a blindside considering his extraordinary workrate, but he's played well at 7 for the Scarlets, infact better than Warburton so far this season.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

The following players have been released:

-Richard Hibbard (Ospreys)
-Martyn Williams (Blues)
-Scott Andrews (Blues)

As well as Rob McCusker who is playing for the Scarlets before having his operation next week. Looks like we can rule out Hibbs and Andrews for Austrailia, (Not that Andrews was likely to play anyway) chances are they'll get their first caps Vs. Fiji.

 

[david0404]

I'm not really up to date with the current squad situation at the moment regarding injuries as such but i would like to see this team start the game:
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Alun-Wyn Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Martyn Williams
8. Jonathan Thomas
9. Mike Phillips
10. Stephen Jones
11. Shane Williams
12. James Hook
13. Tom Shanklin
14. Aled Brew
15. Chris Czekaj

Bennett
Yapp
Deinol Jones
Faletau
Rees
Biggar
Prydie

Personally I don't think we are going to stand much of a chance if we gift the Aussies points like New Zealand did but i do think there is a potential for a high scoring game. If Wales turn up on the day with a good starting XV then we are definitely in with a shout.

 

[dullonien]

That staring 15 looks decent. I personally think Bishop offers a little more than Shanklin nowerdays, not to mention the partership him and Hook have been building at the Ospreys. There's pretty much 3 from 4 that's gonna start in the backrow, I don't mind whatever combination Gatland goes for.

I feel your bench is a little odd though. Deiniol Jones is rubbish and offers zero impact off the bench. Gough is much better, or use JT as second-row cover and have another backrow player on the bench in Lydiate. Hook can cover 10 so no need for Biggar, that opens up space for a replacement centre on the bench in Shanklin / Bishop. I'd then personally have Harries on the bench (or start Harries with Brew on the bench) instead of Prydie to cover wing and fullback, but Prydie could also do the job I suppose.

In the end, the pack isn't far off being full-strength considering the form of Ryan Jones. Lydiate is arguably the on form 6 in Wales, whilst there's options at 7. JT would have been in the reconing to start at 8 and he's played no worse there than Jones this season and most of last. The backs is of course missing a couple of first choice starters in Halfpenny, Byrne and Roberts and they could be the difference in the end if we don't loose it in the backrow.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'm not really up to date with the current squad situation at the moment regarding injuries as such but i would like to see this team start the game:
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. Alun-Wyn Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Martyn Williams
8. Jonathan Thomas
9. Mike Phillips
10. Stephen Jones
11. Shane Williams
12. James Hook
13. Tom Shanklin
14. Aled Brew
15. Chris Czekaj

Bennett
Yapp
Deinol Jones
Faletau
Rees
Biggar
Prydie

Personally I don't think we are going to stand much of a chance if we gift the Aussies points like New Zealand did but i do think there is a potential for a high scoring game. If Wales turn up on the day with a good starting XV then we are definitely in with a shout.

Personally I don't think we stand a chance with that XV!

Lydiate will start at 6, Bishop at 12 and in all likely hood Will Harries at 14. Deiniol Jones wont be on the bench infront of Gough. Paul James infront of Yapp also!

 

[Dizzy]

The backline of

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. O' Connor
12. Giteau
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Mitchell
15. Beale

Is a very potent attacking collective. I think the Welsh will have a hard time against these guys

 

[cyRil]

I'm reading everywhere that Australia have "by far" the best back-line in the world.
Has no-one heard of New Zealand?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'm reading everywhere that Australia have "by far" the best back-line in the world.
Has no-one heard of New Zealand?

Apparently one win and ..... (fill in the rest)

 

[RoosTah]

I'm reading everywhere that Australia have "by far" the best back-line in the world.
Has no-one heard of New Zealand?

To be fair I'm the first Australian to have replied to this thread...

And no, we don't think we've got the best back line in the world and we're certainly not going to get carried away with a tight win against New Zealand in which we still showed we're lacking in defence, scrummaging and goal kicking. Our attack, line outs and ball retention were all great, but we're not going to be contenders unless we sort the other stuff out. In particular I think Giteau needs to be dumped as a goal kicker... he's too inconsistent and folds under pressure, where as the fresh faced new kid James O'Connor pinged two pretty difficult kicks easily under match winning/losing circumstances. Give it to him until Giteau proves he deserves it.

Anyway though, Wales play a style similar to Australia, so this should be a good match. The up side for us is that beating a side with McCaw, Carter, Nonu et al generally makes you think you can take on anyone and confidence wins matches .

 

[Shaggy]

... Geez, sometimes I enjoy reading Greg Growden's comments ... other times I just shake my head in disbelief

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...skids-on-wallabies-attack-20101102-17cfp.html

Uncovered: The potential Welsh plan to put skids on Wallabies' attack
Greg Growden
November 3, 2010

CARDIFF: The Wallabies have been warned gamesmanship revolving around the Millennium Stadium roof could be used to thwart their fast attacking play.

With rain predicted for Cardiff most of this week, the Welsh media alerted the Wallabies team management yesterday of the possibility of the roof being kept open to slow the playing surface, which would negate Australia's hopes of running the home team off the park.

When told a decision on whether the roof would be kept open or not depended on the two teams coming to an agreement, Deans said: ''So Wales decides essentially.''

Asked if it would alter the team's approach: ''It may do … if the surface is distinct to what we're used to. I'm not familiar with what the state of the surface is at.''

But Deans tried to downplay the possibility of a boggy pitch.

''It will be what it is,'' he said. ''It's a nature of the game that we play in different conditions all the world over. I guess it's like going to South Africa, and if you have a critical must-win game, you generally play it in the Highveld. That's part of the territory. I'll be surprised even if there is moisture [at Millennium Stadium]. Such is the state of technology [at the main Test grounds], that the surfaces don't vary an enormous amount.''

Underhand tactics are nothing new on Australian tours, including both Scottish and Italian officials narrowing Test venues to make it easier for teams to defend against the Wallabies.

Wales would not go that far, but there appears to be concern about how the Wallabies could dominate this Test, especially as they will be facing an injury-depleted home line-up. Wales defensive coach Shaun Edwards admitted stopping the Australians would be a very difficult task.

''The Wallabies have just scored four tries against a tough New Zealand defence, which was an incredible effort, and that says everything about how important defence will be for us,'' Edwards said. ''We know we have to be watertight in defence.

''[The Wallabies] may not technically be the No.1 team in the world, but having just beaten the highest-ranked side at a neutral venue, you have to say they are now.''

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I love how the OZ media are listening to the Western Mail, its banjo and one dog!

 

[Shaggy]

I like the comparison with the Scottish and the Italians ... gosh the NH sides are sneaky

... This is a gem from Shaun Edwards though

''[The Wallabies] may not technically be the No.1 team in the world, but having just beaten the highest-ranked side at a neutral venue, you have to say they are now.''

 

[dullonien]

I hope Gatland doesn't decide to keep the roof open if it's raining, it could be favourable to Wales, but we also like to play an attacking brand of rugby, well traditionally anyway. Let's have a good game of rugby in the dry. Tbh I suspect that's what will happen anyway.

Apparently this is the Welsh team to face the Wallabies:

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Matthew Rees
03 Adam Jones
04 Alun-Wyn Jones
05 Bradley Davies
06 Dan Lydiate
07 Sam Warburton
08 Jonathan Thomas

09 Mike Phillips
10 Stephen Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Andrew Bishop
13 Tom Shanklin
14 Will Harries
15 James Hook

16 Paul James
17 Huw Bennett
18 Deiniol Jones
19 Martyn Williams
20 Richie Rees
21 Dan Biggar
22 Chris Czekaj

Got this from 606, but the guy who posted it posts every Welsh team a few days early and is always spot on. Take that how you wish. If it's right, starting 15 looks decent, although I'd have personally kept Hook in the centre with Harries/Czekaj/Prydie at fullback. Not keen on the bench though! Bennett, Deiniol Jones, Biggar? Suppose Biggar was inevitable considering the starting 15, as there are no other fit centres in the squad, therefore Hook covers centre and not 10 aswell. Gatland loves Bennett, and he also seems quite partial to Deiniol Jones. Surely Gough offers more impact? Fine with Czekaj as he offers cover for the back three, although Brew would offer more impact with Harries fullback cover.

 

[cyRil]

To be fair I'm the first Australian to have replied to this thread...

And no, we don't think we've got the best back line in the world and we're certainly not going to get carried away with a tight win against New Zealand in which we still showed we're lacking in defence, scrummaging and goal kicking. Our attack, line outs and ball retention were all great, but we're not going to be contenders unless we sort the other stuff out. In particular I think Giteau needs to be dumped as a goal kicker... he's too inconsistent and folds under pressure, where as the fresh faced new kid James O'Connor pinged two pretty difficult kicks easily under match winning/losing circumstances. Give it to him until Giteau proves he deserves it.

Anyway though, Wales play a style similar to Australia, so this should be a good match. The up side for us is that beating a side with McCaw, Carter, Nonu et al generally makes you think you can take on anyone and confidence wins matches .

I didn't necessarily say it was Aussies or the Aussie press bigging your team up, the statement I got it from was on the BBC website.

 

[Quadecooper#1]

''[The Wallabies] may not technically be the No.1 team in the world, but having just beaten the highest-ranked side at a neutral venue, you have to say they are now.''

This made me laugh a bit, and i hoped that none of the New Zealanders on the forum would see it! Greg has a bad case of foot in mouth disease.

On a better note, O'Connor has taken over the kicking duties. I read that Giteau said that it was entirely his decision and he thought that he wasn't kicking very well because he has been working on a new technique. Made me think that he must have been working on it for the last two years!

Our backline is not the best in the world, it is way too inconsistent and in defence they fall off too many tackles. It has the potential to be the best but i think Barnes or Faingaa would be better suited to playing 12 to stiffen up the defence. I loved the way Nonu was running straight over our backline and Barnes came on and got in his grill with a solid tackle straight up.

Looking forward to a great game of rugby in Cardiff. Hopefully for rugbys sake they keep the roof on. I have really enjoyed the Wales Vs Aus games over the last few years and I hope this continues. Wales always stick it to us and know they can beat us. So regardless of last weeks result Wales are in with a big shot.
Disappointed that Lee Byrne isn't playing though, him and Powell have been my favorite Welsh players. Powell may not be in the XV anymore but he was so good on his feet for a backrower.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I hope Gatland doesn't decide to keep the roof open if it's raining, it could be favourable to Wales, but we also like to play an attacking brand of rugby, well traditionally anyway. Let's have a good game of rugby in the dry. Tbh I suspect that's what will happen anyway.

Apparently this is the Welsh team to face the Wallabies:

01 Gethin Jenkins
02 Matthew Rees
03 Adam Jones
04 Alun-Wyn Jones
05 Bradley Davies
06 Dan Lydiate
07 Sam Warburton
08 Jonathan Thomas

09 Mike Phillips
10 Stephen Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 Andrew Bishop
13 Tom Shanklin
14 Will Harries
15 James Hook

16 Paul James
17 Huw Bennett
18 Deiniol Jones
19 Martyn Williams
20 Richie Rees
21 Dan Biggar
22 Chris Czekaj

Got this from 606, but the guy who posted it posts every Welsh team a few days early and is always spot on. Take that how you wish. If it's right, starting 15 looks decent, although I'd have personally kept Hook in the centre with Harries/Czekaj/Prydie at fullback. Not keen on the bench though! Bennett, Deiniol Jones, Biggar? Suppose Biggar was inevitable considering the starting 15, as there are no other fit centres in the squad, therefore Hook covers centre and not 10 aswell. Gatland loves Bennett, and he also seems quite partial to Deiniol Jones. Surely Gough offers more impact? Fine with Czekaj as he offers cover for the back three, although Brew would offer more impact with Harries fullback cover.

If thats the squad ... I want my money back now!

 

[Tomsey]

Traditionally after an important/break through win the Wallabies are very poor the next weekend. They can not afford to let this happen if they plan to beat the Welsh. If the above side is correct I assume there is a number of Welsh players out injured (I think I remember reading something to this effect anyway...) but they are still good enough to beat us if we play poorly. As good as the win against the All Blacks was, we had played them 3 times already in the last few months, so we knew exactly what to espect form them, and there was the motivation factor of the previous 10 losses. The Wallabies will not be able to call on either of these factors against the Welsh so it will be a tougher challange in that respect. I'm looking forward to seeing some consistancy from the Wallabies and would love to see them lead the entire game to prove to themselves that they can hold onto a lead.

 

[Thingimubob]

I'm praying that Hook doesn't start at Fullback! Doesn't make sense to pick him at fullback over Czekaj, Harries or Prydie who have all played there this season, when Hook hasn't at all! He's also got a cracking partnership with Bishop going on atm, and he's been lighting up the Ospreys midfield all season too. Personally I'd have 12. Hook 13. Bishop 14. Harries 15.Czekaj with Shanklin and Brew on the bench.