<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Nov 22 2009, 03:29 AM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 21 2009, 08:54 PM)
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I understand where you are coming from Melhor. Some of the calls were 50/50. Luke Cherteris (Not Alun-Wyn) was very close to being off side, if not was. He did retreat, but was it to behind the backfoot? possibly not, but that kinda call happens in every game of rugby. For the third try, the only thing you can pull it up on was Rees' tackle. Was it late? No, he was committed. Was it an illegal challenge? Not in my opinion, he looks like was was pulling out of the tackle.
However, Wales were easily the better team in that game and fully deserved the scoreline. I'm slightly dissapointed that we couldn't capitalise on opportunities we'd created, instead we had to capitalise on mistakes by Argentina, but it doesn't really matter now. We know we can create scoring opportunities, and now we know we can finish half chances. When we combine the two effectively, we'll be in buisness big time.
Still so much to come from this Welsh side. Hopefully we can pick it up a bit more against Aus. Hugely looking forward to that game now. We'll be full of confidence and Aus are staring down the barrell of a very unsucksessfull tour. Would like to see Lydiate or JT coming in for Powell, Peel on for Cooper with Martyn Roberts on the bench. I'd also give another shot to Jonathan Davies in the centre.[/b]
Mate, try actually looking at the video I supplied before posting.
Luke Cherteris (Not Alun-Wyn) was very close to being off side, if not was. He did retreat, but was it to behind the backfoot? possibly not, but that kinda call happens in every game of rugby.
As the video shows he was on the ground, then stood up in an offside position and then charged down the kick. Never did he attempt to get onside and the ref made a poor call in not seeing this. I have already said when this happens and have supplied the video. Watch it.
For the third try, the only thing you can pull it up on was Rees' tackle. Was it late? No, he was committed. Was it an illegal challenge? Not in my opinion, he looks like was was pulling out of the tackle.
Actually there are three problems: 1. was the tackle late? Yes it was. 2. Was he committed to making the tackle? No he wasn't. 3. Did he use his arms or just his shoulder in the tackle. The video suggests shoulders. In plain english, three reasons to give Argentina a penalty, yet the ref missed all three and instead gave Wales the try. If he was pulling out of the tackle then it is still, in the least a penalty to Argentina for tackling without arms. Friends on another forum agree rgentins were robbed here and in the second try. Seriously, weatch the viedo evidence I have provided. It is overwhelmingly in support of what I have said.
However, Wales were easily the better team in that game and fully deserved the scoreline
Utterly irrelvent. Italy were better than New Zealand last week. New Zealand scored more points and won. I know Wales were better today, my post acknowledges this. Argentina, without 6 first choice players should not be competing against Wales or England but they are, they should be getting dominated. Now then, it is unfortunate for them that the referee forgot the offside rules (second try), and the tackle rules (third try). 14 non-valid points he missed. Then there is the first try, which plentty of fans are saying was illegal a the tee carrier was already entereing the field. Plenty of tv evidence supports this too.
We know we can create scoring opportunities, and now we know we can finish half chances. When we combine the two effectively, we'll be in buisness big time.
Fair point, but vs Samoa Wales couldn't and vs New Zealand Wales also couldn't. In the 6 Nations Wales only scored one try at the Milenium Stadium. I honestly, think this Wales team is severely overrated. The scrumagings of Argentina was talked down yet Wales were cheating the laws, like Italy vs NZ last week, and getting away with it. Don't get me wrong. Good on you. You defeated a world class team. Wales are good, but the reputation suggests they are as good as France or New Zealand which is simply not true at all. No disrepect intended. I like Wales a lot, honestly.
Wales should win vs Australia as Australia are not all that good right now. At their best they are like Ireland but at their worst they are far from being a top 8 team. If Argentina had been with their top players who are out injured and without a poor ref helping the opposition, knowingly or not, Wales would have lost this game by 15-20 points just like they did in Buenos Aires in 2006. Wales were very ordinary.
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I disagree, Charteris did make an effort to get behind the offside line, the question is did he go back enough? If he was offside it was only marginal. It wasn't as if he blatantly offside and jumped up on the scrum half. It was a matter of centremetres tbh, and didnt; make that much difference because the kick was a terrible one.
I'm not sure with the Rees tackle, I don't see it as late because he looked very much commited. Not sure with the shoulder chqarge thing though, it may or may not have been. Just one of those 50 - 50 calls I guess. And anyway, I looked at your video, and if you look at how Lobbe got the ball in the 1st place, you see Roncero taking out Cooper off the ball, or did that escape your notice? There was a lot of that the from the Argie front row, a lot of penalties for taking players out off the ball, hands in the ruck and not rolling away. More than a cause for a sin bin? As Bristol-iain said, Ledesma gave away a string fo 3 penalties in the space fo a few minutes. Can;t see how Paul James was 'cheating'? Brian Moore had a bit of a rant about him 'not binding on the shirt, but on on the arm', which was a bit wtf because when they did a close up shot Paul James was gripping the shirt just under the arm pit area. But then again, it's Brian Moore, he likes the sound of his own voice having a rant.
''If Argentina had been with their top players who are out injured and without a poor ref helping the opposition, knowingly or not, Wales would have lost this game by 15-20 points just like they did in Buenos Aires in 2006. Wales were very ordinary.''
Ah and of course this was a full strength Wales side? No Adam Jones, Ian Evans, Mike Phillips, Gavin Henson, Tom Shanklin or Lee Byrne? All Grandslam winners and all, bar one, British and Irish Lions? We've been lacking creativity this Autumn because players like Phillips, Henson and Byrne are some of the ones that spark things off for us. Byrnes running lines and Hensons passing skills have been sorely missed. And what has a match played over 3 years ago in Argentina with an out of sorts young Wales side (James Hook was making his full debut - and he was still playing for semi-pro Neath at the time) coached by one of the worst coaches we've had for a long time, got to do with this match? Three years is a long time, and Wales have improved massively under Warren Gatland, so I doubt we'd have lost by 15 - 20 points. It would have been a completely different match, but not a one-sided thrashing to Argentina.
EDIT: Oh yeah forgot to say, Stephen Jones' try was 100% legal, there was no signal and no tee, he's more than entitled to take a tap and go for the corner.
Damn you people who post a few seconds after I do.
