Wales Tour 2013: Japan

[Draggs]

Anyone think that picking 4 players who can play lock is a deliberate attempt to try work out who should bench for AWJ/Evans? Let's face it, there's probably enough depth in Lydiate/Ryan Jones/Tipuric/Warburton/Faletau for now, so why not?

Don't get why McCusker's included and not Shingler though...

Shingler is injured (Aaron). Charteris benches if fit. We need an eight, and we are playing six blindsides (worked well for England...)

 

[j'nuh]

I see. In that case, I can see why they picked who they did. I agree that you need to find another 8, but you can only work with what you've got, and I'm not sure there's an 8 forcing their way in at the min? For now, I think Faletau and Ryan Jones do just fine for 8 cover, and if they're not available, you could move Warburton there for a Lydiate/Tipuric/Warburton backrow (which I think could be pretty awesome).

 

[Draggs]

I see. In that case, I can see why they picked who they did. I agree that you need to find another 8, but you can only work with what you've got, and I'm not sure there's an 8 forcing their way in at the min? For now, I think Faletau and Ryan Jones do just fine for 8 cover, and if they're not available, you could move Warburton there for a Lydiate/Tipuric/Warburton backrow (which I think could be pretty awesome).

Ieuan Jones is probably the best 8 prospect we have, but he has gone to France with the U20.
That being said, both Robinson and Patchell could have gone to France, but are in Japan. Anti-Gwent or some ****, right?
Funnily enough, the last few Welsh eights are from/played in Gwent. Alix Popham (Newport RFC), Michael Owen (NGD), Andy Powell (Newport RFC), Ryan Jones (Newport born), Toby Faletau (NGD).

 

[psychic duck]

This is poor by Wales. Tonga, Samoa etc don't need water breaks playing in Japan. Wales have a young, fit, professional side and this really shouldn't be a problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22765007

 

[Draggs]

This is poor by Wales. Tonga, Samoa etc don't need water breaks playing in Japan. Wales have a young, fit, professional side and this really shouldn't be a problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22765007

Well, every Samoan on YouTube tells me that Samoans are superior in every aspect to 'Fukin Welsh' so this comes as no surprise. By Samoan I mean Islander living in Auckland who visited Samoa once to see their cousin.

 

[dullonien]

This is poor by Wales. Tonga, Samoa etc don't need water breaks playing in Japan. Wales have a young, fit, professional side and this really shouldn't be a problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22765007

I don't see the problem of asking. 30 degree heat, why not have a quick water break?

 

[psychic duck]

I don't see the problem of asking. 30 degree heat, why not have a quick water break?

Because where do you stop? It's 40 minute halves, fitness is part of the game, and if you're not fit enough then it's your own problem. Allow this and before you know it you could get a team of Martyn Madden, Chris Wyatt and Craig Quinnell requesting one the minute the sun comes out.

This whole weather issue is overblown by the media as well. They make it seem like it will be a massive hindrance, but I don't believe it will be. Lou Reed aside, fitness certainly isn't this sides problem. Lack of quality yes, but not lack of fitness. Wales should deal with this fine. It's not a problem.

If Tonga who are far less fit side and have this portly lad as their scrum half can deal with it without water breaks. So can Wales. So in short they need to man up.

 

[j'nuh]

Aren't water breaks built into penalties and conversions?

 

[LittleGuy]

Aren't water breaks built into penalties and conversions?

In the CRC in Canada we frequently have them especially at Ontario Blues games, the game stops close to the 20 minute mark and it's a proper 2-3 minute break. Keep in mind the humidex factor can make Southern Ontario feel like 40-45 C on hot days(I've even experienced 48-50 C humidity factors before!!!)

I can't remember if Canada vs. USA from 2011 in Toronto had them or not....If that game didn't than I can't imagine almost any test match ever needing water breaks. The stadium was so hot they were clearing out space under the one end of the ground so the children could all go into the shade...I was sitting there as a spectator with a rugby canada towel soaked in water placed over my head. My red shirt had become transluscent with sweat.

 

[psychic duck]

Eddie Jones hits the nail on the head with this comment.

"It gets cold in Wales and you never get the chance to warm up your hands. I can never remember having heat breaks on Northern Hemisphere tours so it's a bit funny having water breaks."

 

[dullonien]

Eddie Jones hits the nail on the head with this comment.

"It gets cold in Wales and you never get the chance to warm up your hands. I can never remember having heat breaks on Northern Hemisphere tours so it's a bit funny having water breaks."

In what way are they comparable? The danger with extreme heat and humidity is dehydration, especially for players who aren't used to those conditions. Read Shaun Edwards' comments about when he played in similar conditions and a team-mate suffered from severe dehydration post-match.

This is the Welsh management trying to safeguard the players safety in what is a meaningless game after all. I see no issues with the Welsh management asking. It's up to the ref now whether he allows it.

 

[psychic duck]

In what way are they comparable? The danger with extreme heat and humidity is dehydration, especially for players who aren't used to those conditions. Read Shaun Edwards' comments about when he played in similar conditions and a team-mate suffered from severe dehydration post-match.

This is the Welsh management trying to safeguard the players safety in what is a meaningless game after all. I see no issues with the Welsh management asking. It's up to the ref now whether he allows it.

Not really unsafe. Tonga manage it every year. Wales managed it in 2001 with the likes of Ben Evans, Chris Wyatt and Craig Quinnell in their team (hardly the fittest bunch), and nobody was "unsafe". In fact it was Japan who were the ones exhausted at the end of the match from chasing the Welsh backs all match iirc. There's no issue. I'm surprised tough man Shaun Edwards is whining about this.

Fijians don't get hand warmer breaks coming from Fiji to play in freezing NH conditions, and I'm sure they could technically point to some rare occasion somebody got hypothermia or frostbite. No other teams playing in Japan has made an issue of this. Also as has already been pointed out, there is a stoppage in play every penalty and try to have drink.

It's not a "meaningless game" either btw. Big game for all the players involved and it's the first defence of the Raeburn Shield.

 

[SelimNiai]

I don't see the problem of asking. 30 degree heat, why not have a quick water break?

Agreed, his comment about it being cold in Wales in winter made me laugh. 30+ degree heat plus 70+% humidity (which can be a serious health risk to anybody) versus temperatures a few above zero which simply are not serious risks to health.

Hey, Eddie! Cardiff isn't in the bloomin Arctic Circle!

 

[dullonien]

Not really unsafe. Tonga manage it every year. Wales managed it in 2001 with the likes of Ben Evans, Chris Wyatt and Craig Quinnell in their team (hardly the fittest bunch), and nobody was "unsafe". In fact it was Japan who were the ones exhausted at the end of the match from chasing the Welsh backs all match iirc. There's no issue. I'm surprised tough man Shaun Edwards is whining about this.

Fijians don't get hand warmer breaks coming from Fiji to play in freezing NH conditions, and I'm sure they could technically point to some rare occasion somebody got hypothermia or frostbite. No other teams playing in Japan has made an issue of this. Also as has already been pointed out, there is a stoppage in play every penalty and try to have drink.

It's not a "meaningless game" either btw. Big game for all the players involved and it's the first defence of the Raeburn Shield.

I was under the impression that there was a bit of a heat wave at the moment, and that the 30 degree temperatures, and especially the high humidity was a little uncommon for this time of year (a little like the small number of really hot days we have over here)? The conditions in Hong Kong for the Lions v Barbarians match was worse than expected as well.

Also hypothermia and frostbite in Britain, what are you on about?

It really is a relatively meaningless game. There's little on the line other than the Raeburn Shield (honestly not heard anyone make a big deal about this before). This isn't a 6 nations, or world cup game, so it's got little meaning.

 

[Draggs]

It's actually the TRF International Shield...
Patchell on the bench from what I've heard, as Shingler went out late.
Bench could be: Baldwin, Gill, Jones, Pretorius, Navidi, Knoyle, Patchell, Prydie.
Just guesses there.

 

[psychic duck]

I was under the impression that there was a bit of a heat wave at the moment, and that the 30 degree temperatures, and especially the high humidity was a little uncommon for this time of year (a little like the small number of really hot days we have over here)? The conditions in Hong Kong for the Lions v Barbarians match was worse than expected as well.

Also hypothermia and frostbite in Britain, what are you on about?

It really is a relatively meaningless game. There's little on the line other than the Raeburn Shield (honestly not heard anyone make a big deal about this before). This isn't a 6 nations, or world cup game, so it's got little meaning.

That was Hong Kong, different place. In fact I just typed into Google, the temperature in Hong Kong is currently 28 degrees compared to 23 in Osaka. So Hong Kong was clearly a few degrees hotter. The temperature is little different to June averages for Japan either.

So basically, whilst some players may get a little hotter, it's hardly unplayable and risk to health as is being made out. As I've repeatedly said literally no other team (including ones that are less fit than Wales) has moaned about this ever.

And yes there are cases of players getting too cold when the temperature in Britain drops. Rare, but no rarer than any heat problems. Wales will be professionally and well prepared, there's no risk to health. If Craig Quinnell can play a full 80 in 2001 without moaning, so can the fitter 2013 bunch.

Also the game isn't meaningless. Just because it's a lower ranked side doesn't mean that. Japan don't host Tier 1 sides often (last time 2005 I think) so it is big for them. As for Wales there is a team full of players who will all have a point to prove to the coaches and can do themselves big favours when it comes to future Wales squads. So there is 46 players who it will mean a lot to. So there's 46 players it means something to. It's not like a Barbarians team where you get players not too bothered sometimes, or a end of season dead rubber in club. Every time you pull on a Wales jersey it is meaningful. By your logic 60% of the matches Wales play are "meaningless".

As for the Raeburn Shield. I actually think that would be a good thing for the IRB to promote more as something to add interest to mid RWC internationals. Wales are the World Champions in the Boxing sense, I want to see how long we can hold it for.

Agreed, his comment about it being cold in Wales in winter made me laugh. 30+ degree heat plus 70+% humidity (which can be a serious health risk to anybody) versus temperatures a few above zero which simply are not serious risks to health.

Hey, Eddie! Cardiff isn't in the bloomin Arctic Circle!

It does get cold in the NH though. And it does get below 0 sometimes. Wales playing in a hotter climate is no different to a Fijian having to play in this. It's difficult for Fiji (more difficult than the conditions will be for Wales), but they get on with it. And Japan is not "a serious risk to health", if it was they wouldn't be playing in the modern health and safety age.

 

[dullonien]

Wales are the World Champions in the Boxing sense, I want to see how long we can hold it for.

I like it

 

[TrueSlawter]

If Patchell has gone out am I the only one who'd rather Morgan went out instead.. I know he hasnt done much bit I would've rather Patchell stay in the JWRC if I'm honest.

 

[psychic duck]

If Patchell has gone out am I the only one who'd rather Morgan went out instead.. I know he hasnt done much bit I would've rather Patchell stay in the JWRC if I'm honest.

Maybe it would be better for Patchell to be in the U20 instead of getting perhaps 10 minutes off the bench. But NO to Matthew Morgan, he's a disappointment to say the least and his passing is not would you would expect from a fly half. I dislike his attitude on Twitter moaning about lack of chances as well.

I would rather we took the Tigers bound Owen Williams or even Tovey (who is still young btw).

Does anybody else think Patchell might make a decent 12 btw? Might be something worth trying, more to gain than playing Spratt anyway.

 

[dullonien]

Maybe it would be better for Patchell to be in the U20 instead of getting perhaps 10 minutes off the bench. But NO to Matthew Morgan, he's a disappointment to say the least and his passing is not would you would expect from a fly half. I dislike his attitude on Twitter moaning about lack of chances as well.

I would rather we took the Tigers bound Owen Williams or even Tovey (who is still young btw).

Does anybody else think Patchell might make a decent 12 btw? Might be something worth trying, more to gain than playing Spratt anyway.

Yeah I agree with that. Matthew Morgan really needs to step it up next season if he's to remotely live up to the hype. I'd still have him above Tovey atm.

I would have preferred to see Owen Williams in Japan and Patchell in France. Not because I think Williams is better than Patchell, but because Patchell playing full games is better than getting a few mins off the bench.

Patchell is decently sized, so yes I could see him making a decent 12, or even 13 with his pace.