Wales (The Gatland returns thread)

[Welsh Exile]

My team would be

Smith
Lake
Brown
Tshiunza
Rowlands
Basham
Morgan
Wainwright

Tomos
Lloyd
IFW
Hawkins
Macs Page
LRZ
Winnett

Elias, Carre, Assarati, Thomas, Reffell, Bevan, Jarrod Evans, Llewellyn

 

[Booboobang]

I'm not bothered about Thomas - but how much research was required for fans to know much about him?

"Plays in England, for an English club, recognise him from playing for England at age-grade, and a quick look on wiki says he was born in England"
Turn that around, for a Welsh born player, who played age-grade for Wales, and every club listed is Welsh, including current club - are you seriously suggesting there'd be no claims of poaching?

My impression was that Tommi was just pointing out the double standard, rather than actually complaining about the "poach"

For me personally, the double standard exists - it can be mildly annoying.
Freddie Thomas has chosen Wales - I don't particularly care.

Personally, it's not a poach unless it's either purely residential qualification (and only newly qualified) or the player was realistically going to receive a call-up for their "home" nation, who just got beaten to the punch. Even then, they're not all poaches.

I think playing for bath/bristol/gloucester is less of a poaching thing considering the closeness of the border. I work in bristol and many collegues cross the bridge everyday for work. If it was sale or newcastle I would see the argument, but not teams that are basically on the border and could realistically live in wales and play for the english team.

 

[Booboobang]

As far as I can see this was published as recently as 1st September which the more cynical among you might see as touting for selection having accepted he wouldn't make the grade with England. Did any similar views emerge earlier? I of course believe that it was an expression of genuine long held views.

I am indifferent to this particular situation but something's screwed when an English club supplies 5 players to a Welsh squad and none to a 45 (including unavailables) man England squad.

I mean, some of that is just coaches choice right? I would of had mercer in as soon as he came back but coaches just didnt bite same with rapava-ruskin when he was pulling up trees.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Danny Care preaching saying how it is. While the stuff he said about him hearing things about the environment and coaching standards being a shambles in the wales camp are hard to say if it's true or not, the rest of stuff he's said about Gatland and the Welsh squad is bang on and similar to what I've been saying. The squad isn't terrible, yeah, we're obviously not going to be competing with the top 4 any time soon but we have some really quality young players with high ceilings and to just be like, "well we've lost players and we're **** this is just how it is now" is complete ********.

 

[Rinkadink]

I'd honestly have preferred sticking with Pivac who was pivoting Wales to a more modern, expansive style which takes time.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd honestly have preferred sticking with Pivac who was pivoting Wales to a more modern, expansive style which takes time.

He lost the players, though. Or at least it seemed like that. Much in the same way the players don't look like they fully brought into Gatland either. I think when it gets to that point, when you have players on the bench who look like they'd rather not be there, it's game over for the coach, for better or worse.

 

[dullonien]

Danny Care preaching saying how it is. While the stuff he said about him hearing things about the environment and coaching standards being a shambles in the wales camp are hard to say if it's true or not, the rest of stuff he's said about Gatland and the Welsh squad is bang on and similar to what I've been saying. The squad isn't terrible, yeah, we're obviously not going to be competing with the top 4 any time soon but we have some really quality young players with high ceilings and to just be like, "well we've lost players and we're **** this is just how it is now" is complete ********.

Absolutely. And his time with the Chiefs just reinforces it for me. If he'd been succesful at the Chiefs, then struggled with Wales I could have maybe got on board with the 'players are ****, it's got nothing to do with Gatland' narrative. But this just seems to be another step down for a coach who hasn't kept up with modern coaching methods/playing styles.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Absolutely. And his time with the Chiefs just reinforces it for me. If he'd been succesful at the Chiefs, then struggled with Wales I could have maybe got on board with the 'players are ****, it's got nothing to do with Gatland' narrative. But this just seems to be another step down for a coach who hasn't kept up with modern coaching methods/playing styles.

And look how they've done since he left as well. Gone from strength to strength. I'm not saying we'd be the same but I'd be pretty confident we'd see an immediate improvement with a Pat Lam/Jamie Joseph type.

**** me, I reckon if we made AWJ interim coach for the 6N we'd do better than we are at the minute.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Actually:

AWJ - Head coach and leader of the free world

Bomb - Forwards coach

Biggar - Backs coach

Tipuric - Skills coach

That's the ******* Avengers right there. Grand slam would be all but guaranteed.

 

[dullonien]

Actually:

AWJ - Head coach and leader of the free world

Bomb - Forwards coach

Biggar - Backs coach

Tipuric - Skills coach

That's the ******* Avengers right there. Grand slam would be all but guaranteed.

I know you weren't being srious here, but we need proven coaches at international level. Only have to look back at Martin Johnson with England to see that great players/captains/leaders =/= good coaches.

I think many can agree that NZ have historically produced the best coaches in the modern era. How many of those were amazing players? Often they either weren't elite international players at all, or they were 'almost' type players e.g. Gats who only made it onto the substitutes bench.

We've fallen into this trap over and over again in Wales, where instead of developing actual coaches, we just think we can take good player/club legend and they can automatically become a professional coach. It can sometimes happen, but it takes time. Unfortunately our systems for developing coaches in Wales is worse than our player development systems, so we're mainly stuck with importing quality coaches from overseas for top dollar!

 

[General Melchett]

I can totally see the value in having AWJ performing a similar role to one POC does with Ireland. Not necessarily lineout coach but something similar. Gatland and his coaches just look like an old boys club and given that the squad has so many young players I think it would be smart to have an AWJ or younger coach who can relate to these young players and possibly act as a conduit between them and the head coach.

The next HC could do a lot worse than to sound out AWJ to see if he wants to be involved.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I know you weren't being srious here, but we need proven coaches at international level. Only have to look back at Martin Johnson with England to see that great players/captains/leaders =/= good coaches.

I think many can agree that NZ have historically produced the best coaches in the modern era. How many of those were amazing players? Often they either weren't elite international players at all, or they were 'almost' type players e.g. Gats who only made it onto the substitutes bench.

We've fallen into this trap over and over again in Wales, where instead of developing actual coaches, we just think we can take good player/club legend and they can automatically become a professional coach. It can sometimes happen, but it takes time. Unfortunately our systems for developing coaches in Wales is worse than our player development systems, so we're mainly stuck with importing quality coaches from overseas for top dollar!

You're right it was tongue in cheek but having said that, if AWJ was in charge for a one off game last week, do I think we would've lost as badly as we did? I honestly don't think so. I agree with what you're saying though.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I can totally see the value in having AWJ performing a similar role to one POC does with Ireland. Not necessarily lineout coach but something similar. Gatland and his coaches just look like an old boys club and given that the squad has so many young players I think it would be smart to have an AWJ or younger coach who can relate to these young players and possibly act as a conduit between them and the head coach.

The next HC could do a lot worse than to sound out AWJ to see if he wants to be involved.

Ask yourself this, would you rather have AWJ leader of the free world or Trump?

 

[McTallshort]

Ask yourself this, would you rather have AWJ leader of the free world or Trump?

AWJ is still only human