URC: the SF's!

[ChicagoKid]

Agreed, Cruz. Both games were intense, edge-of-your-seat affairs. The URC is a proper league and excited to see what the next few seasons bring.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Gotta be Leinster's worst season ever, aight? I mean, sure, they probably have gotten worse results but 2022 looked like someone took a fat kid to an ice cream parlour and forced him to watch others eat sundaes while stuffing bloody broccoli down his throat.

Good analogy but I'd suggest it was being forced to eat brocoli and proceeding to throw a tantrum and repeatedly drop sundaes afterwards.

Or we were beaten in Marseille but beat ourselves yesterday to use the old cliche.

2015 and 2016 were worse fwiw. 2017 was similar (2 SF defeats) but that felt like a year we built something so this one hurts more.

Brutal stuff, felt bad for them.

Stop that, no one feels bad for us!

 

[mdaclarke]

Old super rugby was a much harder competition than the URC I am pretty sure there not a single SA team would have made the playoffs. Cheethas won't really dilute the talent we still have our other franchises the Pumas and Griquas with plenty of talent that can be raided and each year plenty of talent come through the varsity cup.

The Super League Travel really handicapped the South African Teams. Not so much the distance but the Time Zones.

I still think Super 12 was the pinnacle of Club Rugby.

 

[Elrigh Louw's disciple]

I don't think these SA sides are as strong as their mid table Super rugby counterparts from 6 years ago. It's certainly settled in my mind that Super Rugby as it was was a fair step ahead of the NH leagues.

A valiant effort from Ulster and a humungous wakeup call to everyone in the NH. The only hope is European commitments next year slow down the SA sides. Or that the Cheetahs join and dilute their player base a bit (seriously, this should now be considered a viable option regardless of what the Welsh do, the whole point of SA cutting sides was that they couldn't compete).

Sadly our teams will only get better and better because with more money in our game a lot our quality players that play overseas will come back home. We haemorrhaged talent for a whole decade which made it impossible for our sides to compete in super rugby especially since a lot of the big time all blacks continued in the competition. This was just the beginning, the NH better brace itself.

 

[Elrigh Louw's disciple]

The Super League Travel really handicapped the South African Teams. Not so much the distance but the Time Zones.

I still think Super 12 was the pinnacle of Club Rugby.

Nope, all that handicapped our teams was Europe taking all the players.

 

[die_mole]

Yeah I think that the guys in the "pretty good" category will leave in order to get playing time in lower table French and English squads but the South Africans will be able to keep first line talent.

I do think some players will just sign foreign contracts cause living abroad in your 20s is a fun experience and if you are the right club it can do great things for your career.

 

[Elrigh Louw's disciple]

Yeah I think that the guys in the "pretty good" category will leave in order to get playing time in lower table French and English squads but the South Africans will be able to keep first line talent.

I do think some players will just sign foreign contracts cause living abroad in your 20s is a fun experience and if you are the right club it can do great things for your career.

South Africans love being in South Africa so don't think that'll be much of an issue. The only real issue is the squads are about to be really big with teams in three competitions which might dilute the money they earn.

 

[mdaclarke]

South Africans love being in South Africa so don't think that'll be much of an issue. The only real issue is the squads are about to be really big with teams in three competitions which might dilute the money they earn.

Surely the Salary Cap will have to increase? I still don't understand how the Sharks could be under the Cap

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Well, let's look at the bright side. At least the NH vs SH debate at club level has been somewhat settled.
*runs to the hills*

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Can i ask a question: am i the only one here who is not really convinced that last kick in the stovsuls game went through?
Not saying it didn't, it's just the footage i've seen (20 times, at least 2 angles) leaves me with more doubts than certainties.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Just watched it from another 2 angles. I am not convinced.

 

[WP-stormer]

Just watched it from another 2 angles. I am not convinced.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I've seen both already.
That last one is the closest one and arguing it was between the posts and not over the post when it crossed the bar is more a matter of faith than evidence.

 

[saulan]

I've seen both already.
That last one is the closest one and arguing it was between the posts and not over the post when it crossed the bar is more a matter of faith than evidence.

I don't get the arguments over the posts kick. Tv angles can be deceptive and the issue is knowing from this angle when exactly the ball passes the poles. The key thing is that two impartial referees were under the posts and decided it was over. They definitely would have had the best view of the ball and the poles and were best to judge it. I don't even know how you would go about reviewing something like that - the TMO would be dealing with the same video issues of when did the ball pass the poles plus there is no precedent for that, especially when the refs are clearly certain of their decision.

At the end of the day, two touch judges who had the best view decided quite quickly that it was over.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Saw it live in behind those stands. Can't remember that I thought anything specifically about the kick other than relief when the flags went up.

My main take away's were that the standard of refereeing felt poor. I am sure I missed a lot being in the stands but the atmosphere was enough to make up for missing some detail.

The other take away I probably wouldn't have picked up on from the TV was how... non-dynamic I felt Vermeulen was. If I were an Ulster fan I'd feel cheated. Walked everywhere and juxtaposed with Roos' enthusiasm I know which I'd prefer at club level. Not sure that is the reason for him being snubbed for the series vs Wales. Perhaps they want to cotton wool him- we know what we have in Vermeulen. It might also light a fire under him?

Him now, yes, but in the past I've seen the same with Kolisi and Etzebeth. ***ans in green but ofttimes AWOL for club duty. Is it a coincidence the Bulls and Stormers each with minimal Bok representation (well, before the latest announcement at least) are in the final and the Sharks not?

On that I don't think SA sides will be dominating as I've seen a few allusions around. I do think Super 12 was a standard apart but that Leinster performance was at least as much them bottling it as it was Bulls applying pressure IMO. And then vs Ulster we scored 0 points for 70 minutes. It could easily have gone the other way.

I aslo think the fact that we will be battling on 2 fronts from next season onwards will more than make up for the.. hope of an increased influx or at least retention of local talent. IOW no reason to stress about SA domination or Leinster domination. I sincerely believe in 2/3 years' time we'll look back and reflect on a very healthy and competitive league especially as I believe the Welsh will step up somewhat- which I think is the league's biggest issue WRT this season in particular. That and poor (perceived?) refereeing performances in general.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I don't get the arguments over the posts kick.

Are you serious? I can understand you disagreeing, but not seeing the point made by the other side?
As impartial and well-intentioned as refs can be, they do make mistakes. This was a very, very tight call to say the least for which no camera angle can give us conclusive evidence. That is basically the problem here.

You would need some sort of hawk's eye to provide us with the exact location of the ball when its vertical position was exactly above the point where the crossbar stands. We do not have that.
In most cases camera evidence is enough for us to make a pretty good educated guess/call, but this one is so tight and the stakes so big that is a bit of a shame we need to rely on some sort of margin of error, to put some label to it, to decide.

And sure, the ref's have the authority to make that call and their decision is final. No one is questioning that because that is not the point being made. The point is whether they got it right. Just as i believe they didn't get right the pass on Ulster's try.


Side question: can anyone recall a game where one AR raises the flag after a conversion while the other one doesn't? I cant.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I'm assuming the AR under the nearest post will take the decision to raise the flag and the other one should take their lead from that and raise just after them or when a verbal cue is given. That way they'd avoid such embarrassment of two ARs playing semaphore.

I was surprised to see Adamson get a semifinal. He doesn't ooze confidence and competence. But he is clearly neutral and I've no reason to question his intentions.

 

[die_mole]

Are you serious? I can understand you disagreeing, but not seeing the point made by the other side?
As impartial and well-intentioned as refs can be, they do make mistakes. This was a very, very tight call to say the least for which no camera angle can give us conclusive evidence. That is basically the problem here.

You would need some sort of hawk's eye to provide us with the exact location of the ball when its vertical position was exactly above the point where the crossbar stands. We do not have that.
In most cases camera evidence is enough for us to make a pretty good educated guess/call, but this one is so tight and the stakes so big that is a bit of a shame we need to rely on some sort of margin of error, to put some label to it, to decide.

And sure, the ref's have the authority to make that call and their decision is final. No one is questioning that because that is not the point being made. The point is whether they got it right. Just as i believe they didn't get right the pass on Ulster's try.


Side question: can anyone recall a game where one AR raises the flag after a conversion while the other one doesn't? I cant.

they have mics and even without mics you can still communicate. A disagreement would be a complete failure of refereeing.

The referee on that post would make the call. He should be in the best position to see whether or not the ball was inside the posts. I would take his word over the TV angles. Not saying that he is infallible or that it was a particular easy call; just that he should be in a better position than TV cameras set up to catch open play.

I'm assuming the AR under the nearest post will take the decision to raise the flag and the other one should take their lead from that and raise just after them or when a verbal cue is given. That way they'd avoid such embarrassment of two ARs playing semaphore.

I was surprised to see Adamson get a semifinal. He doesn't ooze confidence and competence. But he is clearly neutral and I've no reason to question his intentions.

yeah Adamson sure is something else; not sure who else you'd give it to as the Italian ref had the other semi. He seems to be the ref the SRU is pushing right now.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Saw it live in behind those stands. Can't remember that I thought anything specifically about the kick other than relief when the flags went up.

My main take away's were that the standard of refereeing felt poor. I am sure I missed a lot being in the stands but the atmosphere was enough to make up for missing some detail.

The other take away I probably wouldn't have picked up on from the TV was how... non-dynamic I felt Vermeulen was. If I were an Ulster fan I'd feel cheated. Walked everywhere and juxtaposed with Roos' enthusiasm I know which I'd prefer at club level. Not sure that is the reason for him being snubbed for the series vs Wales. Perhaps they want to cotton wool him- we know what we have in Vermeulen. It might also light a fire under him?

Him now, yes, but in the past I've seen the same with Kolisi and Etzebeth. ***ans in green but ofttimes AWOL for club duty. Is it a coincidence the Bulls and Stormers each with minimal Bok representation (well, before the latest announcement at least) are in the final and the Sharks not?

On that I don't think SA sides will be dominating as I've seen a few allusions around. I do think Super 12 was a standard apart but that Leinster performance was at least as much them bottling it as it was Bulls applying pressure IMO. And then vs Ulster we scored 0 points for 70 minutes. It could easily have gone the other way.

I aslo think the fact that we will be battling on 2 fronts from next season onwards will more than make up for the.. hope of an increased influx or at least retention of local talent. IOW no reason to stress about SA domination or Leinster domination. I sincerely believe in 2/3 years' time we'll look back and reflect on a very healthy and competitive league especially as I believe the Welsh will step up somewhat- which I think is the league's biggest issue WRT this season in particular. That and poor (perceived?) refereeing performances in general.

Nice summary, Leinster will bounce back, Ulster will improve. I think those two and the three SA playoff teams will form a top 5 I'm the early years of the comp. Munster and the Scottish teams need a bit of work to be competitive, Wales need to do something massive and Italy need to continue building.

Refereeing is the biggest issue that will harm the leagues credibility. The European refs are poor and the South African refs have favoured South African teams when reffing them. The two semi final performances were so incompetent that no one could really complain too much. From an Irish pov Leinster should have had a penalty to give us a shot to go the length and win at the death and Ulster probably earned a bit more ball in the first half but Leinster were sloppy, Ulster coughed up a lot of possession and there were definitely bad decisions going the other way so no excuses. The URC needs to invest in regular reffing clinics, nothing else will fix this.

I wish it wasn't an all SA final but if there wasn't already this should see a massive buy in to the comp from SA which is exactly what everyone wanted.

Leinster need to come back and win next year though, Friday was unacceptable.

 

[die_mole]

I have to say hating on Leinster is no longer fun. I think they are just a really good team that was overhyped into a dominate force. Losing once in knockouts is a choke job, losing twice means that is just who you are.