URC 2023/2024 Round 2

[dirty harry]

How dare Ospreys break the Welsh 100% record! Creeping over the line against a weakened Zebre, at home.

That's my money gone, Welsh clubs not winning a single game against non Welsh opponents this season. 9-1 lol that's it!

 

[Bluemoon]

Munster were away. But we were lucky to draw. Treviso will take a few scalps at home

Ah my mistake, still a decent result!

 

[saulan]

Hope you didnt put that accumulator bet on! Dragons haven't beat Cardiff in 16/17 attempts.

To be fair, I think this is a problem a lot of SA fans have who have joined the URC. We have a really good sense of the strengths, weaknesses and styles of all the other URC teams… except the Welsh. This probably links to them not being very competitive in the last two years, but I see them all as teams you should pick up the bonus point win against at home and teams you should be looking to be getting at least 2 log points away from home.

I think @TRF_stormer2010 has expressed similar levels of unfamiliarity with them. I really have no idea who should be winning those Welsh derbies.

 

[Bluemoon]

To be fair, I think this is a problem a lot of SA fans have who have joined the URC. We have a really good sense of the strengths, weaknesses and styles of all the other URC teams… except the Welsh. This probably links to them not being very competitive in the last two years, but I see them all as teams you should pick up the bonus point win against at home and teams you should be looking to be getting at least 2 log points away from home.

I think @TRF_stormer2010 has expressed similar levels of unfamiliarity with them. I really have no idea who should be winning those Welsh derbies.

Yeah that's totally understandable and probably a fair assessment. You are probably aware there are a lot of problems here between WRU and the pro clubs and there is a lot of disagreement about how to take rugby forwards between well, mostly everyone. Eg the WRU organised an international game on a weekend that the pro clubs have massive derbies, reducing much needed income.

Between that and the financial issues caused by loads of reasons, the pro clubs just aren't in a good position to compete reliably. That makes us as a group of teams wildly inconsistent and frustrating to watch.

 

[dirty harry]

Yeah that's totally understandable and probably a fair assessment. You are probably aware there are a lot of problems here between WRU and the pro clubs and there is a lot of disagreement about how to take rugby forwards between well, mostly everyone. Eg the WRU organised an international game on a weekend that the pro clubs have massive derbies, reducing much needed income.

Between that and the financial issues caused by loads of reasons, the pro clubs just aren't in a good position to compete reliably. That makes us as a group of teams wildly inconsistent and frustrating to watch.

What?!?!

We are extremely consistent, from the moment the regions were incepted, and 5 squads packed full of international talent (well 4.5) we have been on a very consistent trajectory, leading to the bones of academy players making up the squads we have today.

And in a few years it will be 3 teams with decent talent, then 3 full of academy players, then it will be 2 squads of decent players, then 2 squads of academy players, and finally it will be tier 2 Wales international team sharing the Cardiff city stadium.

Absolute consistency

 

[Tooting Carmen]

How dare Ospreys break the Welsh 100% record! Creeping over the line against a weakened Zebre, at home.

That's my money gone, Welsh clubs not winning a single game against non Welsh opponents this season. 9-1 lol that's it!

Apart from Nicky Smith, most of the Ospreys' WC contigent still hadn't come back (quite apart from injuries). By comparison, how close to full-strength were Zebre?

 

[Bluemoon]

What?!?!

We are extremely consistent, from the moment the regions were incepted, and 5 squads packed full of international talent (well 4.5) we have been on a very consistent trajectory, leading to the bones of academy players making up the squads we have today.

And in a few years it will be 3 teams with decent talent, then 3 full of academy players, then it will be 2 squads of decent players, then 2 squads of academy players, and finally it will be tier 2 Wales international team sharing the Cardiff city stadium.

Absolute consistency

I can tell we aren't going to have the same opinion on the pro clubs and you highlighted my no one agrees point perfectly!

The only way to unify the welsh is when someone from another country attempts to analyse what's happening here and gets it wildly wrong.

 

[saulan]

I see there is talk of Vermeulen coming back for us. Absolutely happy to have him but not the position we have shortage of cover. Guess if we are going for a squad mentality having him in there is ideal.

 

[dirty harry]

I can tell we aren't going to have the same opinion on the pro clubs and you highlighted my no one agrees point perfectly!

The only way to unify the welsh is when someone from another country attempts to analyse what's happening here and gets it wildly wrong.

Well I dont understand your opinion then, are you disagreeing the regions have declined consistently since day 1, through to day 7000?

 

[Bluemoon]

Well I dont understand your opinion then, are you disagreeing the regions have declined consistently since day 1, through to day 7000?

I was more referring to your surprise at my comment at our lack of consistency. For me it's always been about squad depth across a season that has been the problem. When the pro teams have done well it's when they've had a consistently strong squad in a season (and a bit of luck with a lack of injuries), but generally that's never been backed up season on season because we haven't been able to maintain that.

Loads of reasons for that but we've won some major trophys as a group since we've become 4, but that's become less sustainable over time, possibly due to a lack of finance, poor governance and interest in other sports at club and school level.

 

[dirty harry]

I was more referring to your surprise at my comment at our lack of consistency. For me it's always been about squad depth across a season that has been the problem. When the pro teams have done well it's when they've had a consistently strong squad in a season (and a bit of luck with a lack of injuries), but generally that's never been backed up season on season because we haven't been able to maintain that.

Loads of reasons for that but we've won some major trophys as a group since we've become 4, but that's become less sustainable over time, possibly due to a lack of finance, poor governance and interest in other sports at club and school level.

I would agree with you about squads, we cant maintain high quality squads, or I should say we couldnt maintain high quality squads, because currently we have a high quality 4/5 players, middling first teamers and squad fillers.

I disagree about the trophies, Cardiff won the old Amlin, Scarlets Celtic league, but they were years ago, and the teams have declined year on year.

We have been on a steady decline since the inception of regional rugby, all those who knew it wouldnt work were probably right when we look back. Ultimately we are sliding to tier 2, not just the club element, but the lack of development.

I have worked in development in 2 reasons, I've seen the heads and the academy managers, I've seen the brother in laws put in development positions because they are brother in laws, I've seen ex players occupy key roles with absolutely zero qualification and experience for the role, I've interviewed against them chatted and been embarrassed by the lack of knowledge. Granted I got out of that 7 years ago, but if it's still run anywhere near as bad, which everyone seems to think, we are doomed.

I fear for Welsh rugby.

 

[Bluemoon]

I would agree with you about squads, we cant maintain high quality squads, or I should say we couldnt maintain high quality squads, because currently we have a high quality 4/5 players, middling first teamers and squad fillers.

I disagree about the trophies, Cardiff won the old Amlin, Scarlets Celtic league, but they were years ago, and the teams have declined year on year.

We have been on a steady decline since the inception of regional rugby, all those who knew it wouldnt work were probably right when we look back. Ultimately we are sliding to tier 2, not just the club element, but the lack of development.

I have worked in development in 2 reasons, I've seen the heads and the academy managers, I've seen the brother in laws put in development positions because they are brother in laws, I've seen ex players occupy key roles with absolutely zero qualification and experience for the role, I've interviewed against them chatted and been embarrassed by the lack of knowledge. Granted I got out of that 7 years ago, but if it's still run anywhere near as bad, which everyone seems to think, we are doomed.

I fear for Welsh rugby.

As much as I don't mind imagining the Ospreys didn't exist , I think the Ospreys winning the league four times and the Scarlets twice since 2004 is major to me. Cardiff have won the Challenge Cup twice playing really decent rugby and quality opposition in the KOs. The pro clubs have been in the knockouts of the H Cup until recently, occasionally falling at the SF hurdle and could have gone a bit further in some cases. They'e done a lot better than the Scots in that period but we are super inconsistent.

Im not denying that things aren't looking bad right now, the WRU's newly imposed wage cap is killing the clubs and next year most of the high earners will be gone. There's a number of factors of why we are where we are and we've got to think creatively about them rather than accepting dooms day.