URC 2023/2024 - Round 18

[odw26]

Scarlets v Drangons match was a bit meh, but the Ospreys v Cardiff game was superb imo.

Cardiff played some great stuff, but once again came up just short. Ben Thomas was class I thought, gotta be on the plane to Aus after that performance - possibly straight into the starting 12 jersey. Winnet was also excellent, combining solid aerial game with some great touches in attack. Shame about Cobango, scored a stunner, then pulls a hammy (probably) 5min. later.

Ospreys did what they do best, set piece play, direct runnig, and mostly playing penalty to penalty. When they have their best players avaiable (Tips, Morgan, Lake, Smith), they can be a match for most. Munster away will be a big ask, but I think they have a shot, albeit small.

Agree with that. Scarlets - Dragons looked like a game between two poor sides that just needed the season to come to an end and really wasn't a good advert for Welsh regional rugby. Cardiff V Ospreys was a much better game. Theo Cabango looks quality, really hope his injury is not serious.

I was sat where they had seated all the kids doing the half-time entertainment with their families, and after they'd done their lap of honour at half time of Cardiff - Ospreys, they all left the stadium, meaning a good chunk of the attendance left during what was a good and entertaining game of rugby, which was really disappointing.

 

[dirty harry]

Agree with that. Scarlets - Dragons looked like a game between two poor sides that just needed the season to come to an end and really wasn't a good advert for Welsh regional rugby. Cardiff V Ospreys was a much better game. Theo Cabango looks quality, really hope his injury is not serious.

I was sat where they had seated all the kids doing the half-time entertainment with their families, and after they'd done their lap of honour at half time of Cardiff - Ospreys, they all left the stadium, meaning a good chunk of the attendance left during what was a good and entertaining game of rugby, which was really disappointing.

They claim 20k, but there was far less, and I am willing to bet there was never 15k in the stadium at the same time.

Dragons v Scarlets looked like an amateur game, and with some of the players on show I'm not surprised. Every half back on show should be playing Welsh prem, let alone international rugby!

Cardiff v Ospreys was far better, but still not a great game. Ospreys have a decent tight 5, Cardiff threw the ball around but thre was only ever going to be 1 winner.


I have to say, the over hype of players is crazy, Cabango is quick, but Keelan Giles is a poor winger. Cabango is too small and useless at pro level.

Ben Thomas, this really does Irk me, I've argued he should have gone to 10 for 6 years or so, instead it's too late, hes been thrust in there and isnt foing to be anything more than a clubman. A good ball player I'll give you, but defensively a mess, and most importantly hes soft. He was directly responsible for 1 try, and indirectly for 2 more (leaving hooker isolated, and too narrow in defence).

I hate to add another name to this list, but Grady has peaked also IMO. He showed promise early on, but couldnt make decisions, and here he is still making 18 year old mistakes. He was basically on Le Los lap for the last ospreys walk in, who knows why, then for the 3rd chased poorly, and got absolutely done on the outside by Edward's.

I say this next bit through gritted teeth... Winnet isnt very good. Technically hes superb, partially hes superb, but he is small, slow, and doesnt have enough for international rugby. I'm not saying he never will, but currently he needs to play a bit of pro ball. Every time he touches the ball he is folded in half by every opposition player who gets to him, hes going to get seriously hurt soon.

All these Cardiff players have the Matthew Morgan touch about them, classy and skillfull but soft, cowardly and lightweight. Why does Cardiff produce the same type of back over and over, Czekai, James, the Robinsons, Fish, Patxhell, Allen, lloyd William's (off the top of my head). Why cant we produce players willing to be tough?

 

[dullonien]

They claim 20k, but there was far less, and I am willing to bet there was never 15k in the stadium at the same time.

Dragons v Scarlets looked like an amateur game, and with some of the players on show I'm not surprised. Every half back on show should be playing Welsh prem, let alone international rugby!

Cardiff v Ospreys was far better, but still not a great game. Ospreys have a decent tight 5, Cardiff threw the ball around but thre was only ever going to be 1 winner.


I have to say, the over hype of players is crazy, Cabango is quick, but Keelan Giles is a poor winger. Cabango is too small and useless at pro level.

Ben Thomas, this really does Irk me, I've argued he should have gone to 10 for 6 years or so, instead it's too late, hes been thrust in there and isnt foing to be anything more than a clubman. A good ball player I'll give you, but defensively a mess, and most importantly hes soft. He was directly responsible for 1 try, and indirectly for 2 more (leaving hooker isolated, and too narrow in defence).

I hate to add another name to this list, but Grady has peaked also IMO. He showed promise early on, but couldnt make decisions, and here he is still making 18 year old mistakes. He was basically on Le Los lap for the last ospreys walk in, who knows why, then for the 3rd chased poorly, and got absolutely done on the outside by Edward's.

I say this next bit through gritted teeth... Winnet isnt very good. Technically hes superb, partially hes superb, but he is small, slow, and doesnt have enough for international rugby. I'm not saying he never will, but currently he needs to play a bit of pro ball. Every time he touches the ball he is folded in half by every opposition player who gets to him, hes going to get seriously hurt soon.

All these Cardiff players have the Matthew Morgan touch about them, classy and skillfull but soft, cowardly and lightweight. Why does Cardiff produce the same type of back over and over, Czekai, James, the Robinsons, Fish, Patxhell, Allen, lloyd William's (off the top of my head). Why cant we produce players willing to be tough?

Always with the negativity dirty harry .

Cabango is useless at pro level? Guy's electric, there no substiture for pace, and he's got bags of it. There's no such thing as being too small for international rugby either, enough players have and are demonstrating that inc. Shane, Kolbe, Arendse, Dmac, Graham etc. There are question marks over his durability after picking up another injury, but we'll just have to wait and see on that front.

As for Giles, he's far from a poor winger, in fact he's probably the most consistent winger in Welsh rugby atm. He's not the dynamite runner he was pre injuries, but he's still the main spark in an Ospreys team who don't give him a huge amount of space to work with.

You've then written Ben Thomas off at the age of 25! Dear lord! He's been consistently excellent this season and has shown a bit of everything inc. bumping off defenders. Yes, defense is probably a bit of a question mark, but he's not routinely run over, so systematic things will come. There's still a collective issue with Cardiff with defensive lapses too, so it might not be him at all! Is he a 10 or 12? Wales probabpy need him more at 10 right now given our other options, but imo he's a better 12.

Has Grady peaked? Crazy to suggest a 22y/o has peaked! Has he progressed as hoped this season though? No, probably not. His rugby intelligence is a bit lacking, with silly mistakes littering games. But we can't ignore an athlete like him, we just don't produce many.

Completely disagree on Winnett. He's taken to pro rugby like a duck to water. He was superb yesterday, mixing his pinpoint positional and aerial game with some great distribution from first reciever and a few half breaks. He's got more to come in attack imo, as evidenced by some of his U20 performances, but I'd prefer to see the basics solid first and foremost with a fullback. Again, stop this rubbish about 'too small', kid looks tough, get's back up and goes again. Don't need to be big to be tough. Everyone said Liam Williams was going to break in pro rugby with his bowed legs, probably the toughest Welsh player of the pro era!

 

[odw26]

Cannot agree with the Cabango statement, and to say to the Welsh players are too small is a brave move considering Shane Williams and what has been said about Liam Williams. His finish for his try was excellent.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Physicality is 99% in your head. It has little to do with how big you are. Adam Beard case in point.

 

[dullonien]

Physicality is 99% in your head. It has little to do with how big you are. Adam Beard case in point.

Dupont another. Far from the biggest of players, but for a 9 of his stature he's super physical. Peter Stringer is another scrum half that comes to mind. Looked like he's be broken in two, but mixed it with the best, and never shirked a tackle.

Edit. And another 9 that demonstrates this well is Faf, the guy manhandles players twice his size!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Dupont another. Far from the biggest of players, but for a 9 of his stature he's super physical. Peter Stringer is another scrum half that comes to mind. Looked like he's be broken in two, but mixed it with the best, and never shirked a tackle.

Edit. And another 9 that demonstrates this well is Faf, the guy manhandles players twice his size!

I always remember Sam Warburton saying that it doesn't matter what size you are or how big the person who is running at you is, if you have the mentality and say to yourself "this guy is not getting past me" they won't. He said you may well injure yourself in the process but you'll make the hit and stop the runner.

Liam Williams is such a good example of this.

 

[Which Tyler]

 

[dirty harry]

Always with the negativity dirty harry .

Cabango is useless at pro level? Guy's electric, there no substiture for pace, and he's got bags of it. There's no such thing as being too small for international rugby either, enough players have and are demonstrating that inc. Shane, Kolbe, Arendse, Dmac, Graham etc. There are question marks over his durability after picking up another injury, but we'll just have to wait and see on that front.

As for Giles, he's far from a poor winger, in fact he's probably the most consistent winger in Welsh rugby atm. He's not the dynamite runner he was pre injuries, but he's still the main spark in an Ospreys team who don't give him a huge amount of space to work with.

You've then written Ben Thomas off at the age of 25! Dear lord! He's been consistently excellent this season and has shown a bit of everything inc. bumping off defenders. Yes, defense is probably a bit of a question mark, but he's not routinely run over, so systematic things will come. There's still a collective issue with Cardiff with defensive lapses too, so it might not be him at all! Is he a 10 or 12? Wales probabpy need him more at 10 right now given our other options, but imo he's a better 12.

Has Grady peaked? Crazy to suggest a 22y/o has peaked! Has he progressed as hoped this season though? No, probably not. His rugby intelligence is a bit lacking, with silly mistakes littering games. But we can't ignore an athlete like him, we just don't produce many.

Completely disagree on Winnett. He's taken to pro rugby like a duck to water. He was superb yesterday, mixing his pinpoint positional and aerial game with some great distribution from first reciever and a few half breaks. He's got more to come in attack imo, as evidenced by some of his U20 performances, but I'd prefer to see the basics solid first and foremost with a fullback. Again, stop this rubbish about 'too small', kid looks tough, get's back up and goes again. Don't need to be big to be tough. Everyone said Liam Williams was going to break in pro rugby with his bowed legs, probably the toughest Welsh player of the pro era!

Lol

The thing is, I never used to be this way, I was an eternal optimist, even during the late 90's and early 00's, however...

Despite people disagreeing with my points, the facts of performance speak for themselves. I 100% agree small players can be physical, and excel, but Cabango, Thomas, Giles etc are clubman at very best. Similar to Ashton Hewitt, you cant carry players this poor defensively at international level.

I get my comments on Grady seem crazy, but I said the same about Cory Allen, absolute class ball in hand, but lacked any sort of mental fortitude (typical Cardiff back apparently), but then I also would argue Tom James deserved far more caps!

BTW Ben Thomas bumped off Morgan William's lol, perspective! He hasnt been excellent all season, hes had a decent 2nd half, and when hes stepped in to 10. I wish he had converted to 10 years ago, I genuinely think hed be a real contender as we have no decent 10 in Wales currently.

 

[dullonien]

Lol

The thing is, I never used to be this way, I was an eternal optimist, even during the late 90's and early 00's, however...

Despite people disagreeing with my points, the facts of performance speak for themselves. I 100% agree small players can be physical, and excel, but Cabango, Thomas, Giles etc are clubman at very best. Similar to Ashton Hewitt, you cant carry players this poor defensively at international level.

I get my comments on Grady seem crazy, but I said the same about Cory Allen, absolute class ball in hand, but lacked any sort of mental fortitude (typical Cardiff back apparently), but then I also would argue Tom James deserved far more caps!

BTW Ben Thomas bumped off Morgan William's lol, perspective! He hasnt been excellent all season, hes had a decent 2nd half, and when hes stepped in to 10. I wish he had converted to 10 years ago, I genuinely think hed be a real contender as we have no decent 10 in Wales currently.

You're too quick to write players off. How you can write Cobango off after barely a handful of pro games (in which he's scored some stunners) is beyond me sorry.

Ben Thomas has bumped off other players this season, and I don't agree that he's only performed 2nd half of season. He's been at the heart of much of Cardiff's good performances this season. Yes Cardiff have come up short in many of those games, but that's a team issue, not one player!

As for Grady, we'll see. He's got a long way to go I agree. Re. his brother Cory Allen, the guy was ravished by injuries his entire career. If you wrote him off at the age of 22, then well done for predicting such things! Assume you also predicted the same for likes of Ashley Beck, Dan Baker etc?

 

[dirty harry]

You're too quick to write players off. How you can write Cobango off after barely a handful of pro games (in which he's scored some stunners) is beyond me sorry.

Ben Thomas has bumped off other players this season, and I don't agree that he's only performed 2nd half of season. He's been at the heart of much of Cardiff's good performances this season. Yes Cardiff have come up short in many of those games, but that's a team issue, not one player!

As for Grady, we'll see. He's got a long way to go I agree. Re. his brother Cory Allen, the guy was ravished by injuries his entire career. If you wrote him off at the age of 22, then well done for predicting such things! Assume you also predicted the same for likes of Ashley Beck, Dan Baker etc?

Not at all, I was always frustrated that Beck and Baker never got a better run of games and caps.

Cabango isnt a lively 18 year old learning his trade, hes nearly 23, he hasnt grown or developed over the last 2 seasons. He is still quick, but he still cant defend, or show the gumption to be able to defend, Similarly to Keelan Giles. Compare where Rio Dyer was 2 seasons ago, he has improved into a very good player because he showed the guts to do what's needed. And to think Giles is 2 years older than him.

Cory Allen did have injuries, but they never held him back, his inability to defend the 13 channell, and then his lack of aggression and guts in defence cost him, Grady has the exact same attributes. I hope I'm wrong, but he hasnt been shipped to the wing at 21 for no reason.

 

[dullonien]

Not at all, I was always frustrated that Beck and Baker never got a better run of games and caps.

Cabango isnt a lively 18 year old learning his trade, hes nearly 23, he hasnt grown or developed over the last 2 seasons. He is still quick, but he still cant defend, or show the gumption to be able to defend, Similarly to Keelan Giles. Compare where Rio Dyer was 2 seasons ago, he has improved into a very good player because he showed the guts to do what's needed. And to think Giles is 2 years older than him.

Cory Allen did have injuries, but they never held him back, his inability to defend the 13 channell, and then his lack of aggression and guts in defence cost him, Grady has the exact same attributes. I hope I'm wrong, but he hasnt been shipped to the wing at 21 for no reason.

I dunno. 22 'aint old, and Cobango has had a serious injury or two in that time as well. Exactly the same as Giles, who was on the cusp of international honours as an 18y/o before being out injured for almost 2 years with an horific injury, followed by a few more injuries in the following years. 8 years later and he's only now got a season of injury free rugby under his belt which has translated into a spot back in the Welsh squad. I absolutely commend him for the commitment and fortitude it must have taken to get back to this point. He deserves more than to be written off before he sets foot on an international pitch!

Cory Allen 100% was held back by his injuries. He couldn't put more than a few games together at almost any point in his career. No player can reach their potential under those circumstances. Now, durability is part of rugby, so arguably he got as far as his body allowed him to.

 

[dirty harry]

I dunno. 22 'aint old, and Cobango has had a serious injury or two in that time as well. Exactly the same as Giles, who was on the cusp of international honours as an 18y/o before being out injured for almost 2 years with an horific injury, followed by a few more injuries in the following years. 8 years later and he's only now got a season of injury free rugby under his belt which has translated into a spot back in the Welsh squad. I absolutely commend him for the commitment and fortitude it must have taken to get back to this point. He deserves more than to be written off before he sets foot on an international pitch!

Cory Allen 100% was held back by his injuries. He couldn't put more than a few games together at almost any point in his career. No player can reach their potential under those circumstances. Now, durability is part of rugby, so arguably he got as far as his body allowed him to.

These are just excuses, all of these players are flawed and soft defensively. Cabango, Giles, Thomas, and co are only being looked at international level due to a severe lack in quality in Wales. If LRZ, Hawkins, Adam's, Feyi, and a raft of others not been unavailable they wouldnt stand a chance, and I would argue none of the 3 make any other 6N squad!

That said I also dont think half our backline and some of our forwards wouldnt make any other squad either, Lloyd, Screech, Costelow etc...

 

[dullonien]

These are just excuses, all of these players are flawed and soft defensively. Cabango, Giles, Thomas, and co are only being looked at international level due to a severe lack in quality in Wales. If LRZ, Hawkins, Adam's, Feyi, and a raft of others not been unavailable they wouldnt stand a chance, and I would argue none of the 3 make any other 6N squad!

That said I also dont think half our backline and some of our forwards wouldnt make any other squad either, Lloyd, Screech, Costelow etc...

But Giles isn't soft defensively! But he's small, so in your mind he must be a poor defender. His main weakness is his earlial game, and he got badly exposed in that aspect a couple of times last season. He seems to have worked on it though, and not had the same issues this season.

I've not seeb much evidencd of Cabango being 'soft' yet and being badly exposed in defense, but please carry on with your rhetoric and pick apart a young player in his first handful of games for an attribute that is low down on priority for a winger.

You'd have been agreeing with Graham Henry back in the early 00's re. Shane Williams, that he was too small for international rugby. He too took a little time to get uaed to the physicality of pro rugby, but he demonstrated that there's no substitute for pace/guile for a winger. Yes, there were always occasions when he'd miss the odd tackle v's your Cohen's, Rougeries', Rocococo's; but he more than made up for it with his ability to finish try's and create space.

 

[dirty harry]

Keelan Giles is soft defensively. Just look at Cabango's try on the weekend.
I dont judge him because hes small, but because he is weak and small. Grady is as bad a defender as Giles, but being really big and much more physical he can minimise that (although he gifted a try on the weekend too), especially at international level. Take Kolbe, he is small, but he makes great decisions in defence, and has the guts to really hit, as did Shane, as did Halfpenny. Giles doesnt.

Trust me, I sit in the Arms park every game, Cabango has gas, and it sometimes gets him out of trouble defensively, but he is very much Stuart Hogg type defenders, as in if hes the last line its try time every time.