URC 2022/2023 SF

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think the level of refereeing can be higher and speak in general over both years. I see Brace's name here and the fact that he is on the RWC panel but I can't say that I've ever thought of him as a good ref and I am actually dreading him in a crunch RWC match for SA.

If any of these play off matches were poor I think the Bulls got a good amount to be sour about in there QF against us. I think it's the narrowness of the margin in this last match that has the refereeing be such a sticking point seemingly and I can understand any bitterness. How to up the standard of refereeing I don't have any idea of what to do so I've decided mid season to just stop hoping for more and enjoy the rugby on offer despite it. It helps we've been getting the rub of it though so I don't know if I'm just deluding myself that I am "over" the poor refereeing.

 

[saulan]

@munstermuffin I was reading some bad things about RG's concussion recovery on Reddit (clearly the world's best source of news). Is he looking good for recovery for the final (and of course, Springbok rugby)? He was looking great in the last game against the Stormers.

 

[munstermuffin]

@munstermuffin I was reading some bad things about RG's concussion recovery on Reddit (clearly the world's best source of news). Is he looking good for recovery for the final (and of course, Springbok rugby)? He was looking great in the last game against the Stormers.

So far so good but concern is he got 2 in quick succession. Next week tells alot in his efforts to be fit and more so for likes of me in medical department I torn. Part of me wants him there as he is a superb player and makes massive difference but medical side wants him sat out as if he gets a 3rd concussion he rightfully will be stood down for months so much as I'd argue his RWC is a no go

 

[munstermuffin]

I think the level of refereeing can be higher and speak in general over both years. I see Brace's name here and the fact that he is on the RWC panel but I can't say that I've ever thought of him as a good ref and I am actually dreading him in a crunch RWC match for SA.

If any of these play off matches were poor I think the Bulls got a good amount to be sour about in there QF against us. I think it's the narrowness of the margin in this last match that has the refereeing be such a sticking point seemingly and I can understand any bitterness. How to up the standard of refereeing I don't have any idea of what to do so I've decided mid season to just stop hoping for more and enjoy the rugby on offer despite it. It helps we've been getting the rub of it though so I don't know if I'm just deluding myself that I am "over" the poor refereeing.

I think this is part that buggered alot in Leinster. They lost and are trying to pinpoint on certain issues that are debatable but are heppening weekly. Like I have rewatched game and was there any clear cut errors. No. And it was his team that made them not Frank alone. Like for restart after drop Joy Neville, who yes is Munster Branch, and Busby also radioed in about a few issues on Leinster side. Equally on scrum that was reset when many thought it should have been a Leinster pen. It was alled by Busby who called it in unstable before.

Can the standard be higher. Definitely and Munster have been on wrong side more than getting rub of green so definitely get that bit but lets not pull wool.over eyes Leinster got away with alot too yesterday.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Murphy just shouldn't have got the game, the standard of reffing in the comp is widely criticised, he's generally awful and being a former player of one of the sides is only going to put a focus on all of these things - might as well get Denis Hickie to ref the next one between us, it wouldn't be much more stupid.

But I'm not really too concerned, Munster were due one over us putting our second team out against them in knockout games and it just meant more to them and the organisers have done them a disservice allowing the ref be such a focal point.

I'm also not very disappointed, Leinster's focus has blatantly been the Champions Cup since the 6 nations ended. The season was and is next Saturday for the squad. That result will allow the team to re-focus and not have to worry about anything that follows getting the fifth star.

 

[Curls]

Also refs weren't chatting to anyone much as they were rushing away for a function as Joy Neville told me before game.
Also no report is filed as we were in this morning and it would have been said.
But I am shocked at amount of sour grapes by alot of Leinster. Although being fair majority were complimentary to us. If Leinster let Byrne kick conversion or took 3 in last 10mins there would be no crying

Respectfully I actually worked in the review area in pro rugby (not in Ireland) and can safely tell you if the officials "rushed off" they would be busted down to J1. Its mandatory for all pro referees to carry out a post game review. It's non negotiable. Rushing off post game without this is akin to running off at 70 mins because you're late for a function. Post match review takes minimum 90 mins. As per World Rugby Elite Standards the referee does his own written review post game without any access to replays or analysis. He then meets the review team which is anywhere from 1-3 guys. If the URC are not doing this then it's shocking and well below the standards of other competitions.
The official review is accessible to both teams should they ask for it. Critical Incident Reports go to the Competition Board and World Rugby to be adjudicated on. Nobody but these bodies have access to its content but usually should a team inquire on the day the review team will confirm if one was raised. The incident in question was a clear hand on the ground and it was in the window around the drop goal so is judged as influential. Murphy was shown the footage in the review and admitted the error.
Had Frawley landed the kick then Leinster win but had Murphy done his job Munster wouldn't have scored that drop goal.

Officiating as a whole in the URC is in the toilet. This is because the pathway for referees was wrecked. I worked abroad in referee development and pathways and can tell you that England, France, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand are streets ahead of the likes of Ireland, Wales and Scotland. The latter 3 are racked with insider knowledge, bias and flat out Nepotism. Let's just say this is very relevant here. In the Southern Hemisphere if you're good enough you'll gey your chance. The Leinster Branch lost a number of talented referees around 2014-2016 after numerous referees were promoted based on totally inflated assessment reports and the previously mentioned nepotism. These talanted guys essentially packed it in. One of those guys I know personally who's name was really being touted as one for the future is now working somewhere in the Middle East and reffing on the side. Word is he's been picked up by Asia Rugby but its well below his potential. He was very put out by his treatment by the IRFU and if you want a sour Leinsterman look no further than him. He is a good example of the supply issue. He's not the only one. There are talented Welsh Irish and Scottish refs littered throughout other countries and you may start to see them bubbling up soon one hopes. Somebody told me that if you look at the referees from the IRFU, WRU and SRU currently in pro rugby you will find they all know someone of influence. I can only speak with certainty in relation to guys I know personally.

Broadly I think a lot of people agree that the RWC will probably be heavily influenced by poor officiating and errors.

 

[munstermuffin]

Murphy just shouldn't have got the game, the standard of reffing in the comp is widely criticised, he's generally awful and being a former player of one of the sides is only going to put a focus on all of these things - might as well get Denis Hickie to ref the next one between us, it wouldn't be much more stupid.

But I'm not really too concerned, Munster were due one over us putting our second team out against them in knockout games and it just meant more to them and the organisers have done them a disservice allowing the ref be such a focal point.

I'm also not very disappointed, Leinster's focus has blatantly been the Champions Cup since the 6 nations ended. The season was and is next Saturday for the squad. That result will allow the team to re-focus and not have to worry about anything that follows getting the fifth star.

This part I can agree with. I'm not defending Frank in general. My preference was Holly Davidson if based on merit.

On last point McBryde was saying to Leamy after that his bigger concern was more on Van Der Flier, Baird and Conan I think it was. Don't think they wanted all them puutting in as big shifts as they did and I think alll made 20+ tackles. My view is that game yesterday would be brilliant for them.

 

[munstermuffin]

Respectfully I actually worked in the review area in pro rugby (not in Ireland) and can safely tell you if the officials "rushed off" they would be busted down to J1. Its mandatory for all pro referees to carry out a post game review. It's non negotiable. Rushing off post game without this is akin to running off at 70 mins because you're late for a function. Post match review takes minimum 90 mins. As per World Rugby Elite Standards the referee does his own written review post game without any access to replays or analysis. He then meets the review team which is anywhere from 1-3 guys. If the URC are not doing this then it's shocking and well below the standards of other competitions.
The official review is accessible to both teams should they ask for it. Critical Incident Reports go to the Competition Board and World Rugby to be adjudicated on. Nobody but these bodies have access to its content but usually should a team inquire on the day the review team will confirm if one was raised. The incident in question was a clear hand on the ground and it was in the window around the drop goal so is judged as influential. Murphy was shown the footage in the review and admitted the error.
Had Frawley landed the kick then Leinster win but had Murphy done his job Munster wouldn't have scored that drop goal.

Officiating as a whole in the URC is in the toilet. This is because the pathway for referees was wrecked. I worked abroad in referee development and pathways and can tell you that England, France, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand are streets ahead of the likes of Ireland, Wales and Scotland. The latter 3 are racked with insider knowledge, bias and flat out Nepotism. Let's just say this is very relevant here. In the Southern Hemisphere if you're good enough you'll gey your chance. The Leinster Branch lost a number of talented referees around 2014-2016 after numerous referees were promoted based on totally inflated assessment reports and the previously mentioned nepotism. These talanted guys essentially packed it in. One of those guys I know personally who's name was really being touted as one for the future is now working somewhere in the Middle East and reffing on the side. Word is he's been picked up by Asia Rugby but its well below his potential. He was very put out by his treatment by the IRFU and if you want a sour Leinsterman look no further than him. He is a good example of the supply issue. He's not the only one. There are talented Welsh Irish and Scottish refs littered throughout other countries and you may start to see them bubbling up soon one hopes. Somebody told me that if you look at the referees from the IRFU, WRU and SRU currently in pro rugby you will find they all know someone of influence. I can only speak with certainty in relation to guys I know personally.

Broadly I think a lot of people agree that the RWC will probably be heavily influenced by poor officiating and errors.

Well respectfully. Having been there and seeing it all. I'm sure they carried out all their duties correct and then wen off to the refs function as planned. Either that or Munster were not given all this "info" you have. And Leinster coaches kept them in dark.
I'm guessing you don't have much info on URC or IRFU. There is a master system that all provinces have access to that gets reports for citings, refs reports, stats, hell it will nearly give you what diets lads are on.
Leinster did not meet Frank for an apology as stated. That is fact.
No Critical Incident Report is gone in as you stated. Remember IRFU are a shareholder in URC and each union is left manage their own. Hence very rare you hear of a citing in interpros. Paul O'Connell probably being the most famous example.
So again the incident you are referring to was actually reviewed by our team this morning and was argued Coombes was on his feet and wasn't a penalty. Maybe bias. But this about Murphy was shown footage, admitted error and then apologised is blatant BS and lies. The D4 media would be on that like a hot potato if true and someone would have reported it if even a hint of truth. And if you do know those ref reviews you would know it was a team not just the ref.

Should there have been ramifications for the whole of team? Why single out just Frank as he didn't make alot of calls solely.

And do I disagree on end part. No I have worked within Munster Rugby and IRFU for near on 20 years. I have been lucky to help with Ireland A in the past so know how it operates. I know the refs structure is bad here. A player in squad yesterday has been promised he will ref in URC in next 5 years as he has a school teaching background and will follow a special pathway programme. Is it right? No. Is it fact that is happening. Yes. But I will add 2 things.
1 this nonsense of ref admitting he was wrong yesterday and spreading BS is ludicrous.

And I wouldn't paint all IRFU refs in that 1 sentence. Refs I know personally like Andy Brace and Joy Neville have had to make huge personal and professional sacrifices to get where they were. They definitely didn't get special pushes. And I'm just speaking for 2 I know. I'm sure more in Ulster, Connacht and Leinster would say same.

 

[Curls]

So again the incident you are referring to was actually reviewed by our team this morning and was argued Coombes was on his feet and wasn't a penalty. Maybe bias.

Should there have been ramifications for the whole of team? Why single out just Frank as he didn't make alot of calls solely.

And do I disagree on end part. No I have worked within Munster Rugby and IRFU for near on 20 years. I have been lucky to help with Ireland A in the past so know how it operates. I know the refs structure is bad here. A player in squad yesterday has been promised he will ref in URC in next 5 years as he has a school teaching background and will follow a special pathway programme. Is it right? No. Is it fact that is happening. Yes. But I will add 2 things.
1 this nonsense of ref admitting he was wrong yesterday and spreading BS is ludicrous.

And I wouldn't paint all IRFU refs in that 1 sentence. Refs I know personally like Andy Brace and Joy Neville have had to make huge personal and professional sacrifices to get where they were. They definitely didn't get special pushes. And I'm just speaking for 2 I know. I'm sure more in Ulster, Connacht and Leinster would say sasame.

77 mins. Just prior to the drop goal. Munster ball. Healy rucks Archer off the ball. Joe McCarthy goes to pick as Leinster have now won the ruck and he can by law act as receiver and handle the ball. Munster hand plays it back on the Munster side. Regardless of if the player is on his feet or not its hands in the ruck and a very easy PK for a competent ref.
We'll agree to disagree on the aftermath but more than 1 person has told me the same facts.

As far as your assessment of IRFU pathways you kind of cement the point I made but I'm not sure if it's because you agree fully or not. You need to be establishment to get ahead and its the reason the IRFU is poorly regarded now in refereeing. A young 20 something in Ireland who takes up the whistle with no friends in positions will never be an elite referee no matter how talented they are. Some of the stories I've heard from young referees who've run the line in the AIL copping abuse from the supporters for well connected donkeys with a whistle would depress you. There were 2 high profile examples. 1)There was an ex Cork Con guy who was fast tracked to IPAS around 2015 in his first season having shown little or no potential. 3 young referees who showed massive potential over a couple of seasons were denied IPAS eventhough their assessments were better. They all packed it in within a year as they had careers and education and put the FU before the IR so to speak. A huge loss to the game in Ireland and as a whole.
2) The most infamous and ridiculous fast track in IRFU history where a referee effectively skipped IPAS because....reasons. Then essentially made a mockery of the lower AIL divisions before "retiring" when a better candidate came along.

All of these IRFU issues take you to this point. Referees elevated to top positions who are so well connected their impartiality becomes a talking point in interpros.

 

[munstermuffin]

77 mins. Just prior to the drop goal. Munster ball. Healy rucks Archer off the ball. Joe McCarthy goes to pick as Leinster have now won the ruck and he can by law act as receiver and handle the ball. Munster hand plays it back on the Munster side. Regardless of if the player is on his feet or not its hands in the ruck and a very easy PK for a competent ref.
We'll agree to disagree on the aftermath but more than 1 person has told me the same facts.

As far as your assessment of IRFU pathways you kind of cement the point I made but I'm not sure if it's because you agree fully or not. You need to be establishment to get ahead and its the reason the IRFU is poorly regarded now in refereeing. A young 20 something in Ireland who takes up the whistle with no friends in positions will never be an elite referee no matter how talented they are. Some of the stories I've heard from young referees who've run the line in the AIL copping abuse from the supporters for well connected donkeys with a whistle would depress you. There were 2 high profile examples. 1)There was an ex Cork Con guy who was fast tracked to IPAS around 2015 in his first season having shown little or no potential. 3 young referees who showed massive potential over a couple of seasons were denied IPAS eventhough their assessments were better. They all packed it in within a year as they had careers and education and put the FU before the IR so to speak. A huge loss to the game in Ireland and as a whole.
2) The most infamous and ridiculous fast track in IRFU history where a referee effectively skipped IPAS because....reasons. Then essentially made a mockery of the lower AIL divisions before "retiring" when a better candidate came along.

All of these IRFU issues take you to this point. Referees elevated to top positions who are so well connected their impartiality becomes a talking point in interpros.

Again will disagree. And fair it is debatable. But on the aftermath I can 100% say it is lies and sad conspiracy. Story. we both know as I said if there was any hint of truth in it that alot of media with sources better than me or you would have reported that. Frank or his team apologised to nobody and also Leinster coaches were mixing with Munster coaches for well over hour after game and again it was definitely not fact.

On refs pathways I 100% agree it is not perfect. But that is a sepperate argument to the BS I'm seen sprouted around and do think it reflects badly on a minority of Leinster who really can't take the beating it seems.
Maybe it a sign of what the pressure is for next week. I personally think Leinster win pulling up next week but yeah it is a bit shocking all these conspiracies. I'm around a long time and it rare you see a team struggle to take beating as much as the Saturday result.

 

[Reiser99]

A pretty engaging game at the Aviva. As a Leinster fan I'm not exactly sure why we seemed to have offered this up to the gods pre game. I had a feeling we would come apart and we did. Hoping for better next week.

On a wider note something struck me watching the games. It was the referees. Now I'll lay out my cards. I thought Frank Murphy made some very poor and inconsistent decisions that hurt Leinster. Not least missing what was an obvious Munster hand regaining possession on the floor for the drop goal but had Frawley converted the last try it would have been irrelevant.

Anyhow more to my point. Mike Adamson and Frank Murphy. Both have been deemed by World Rugby unfit to carry a flag in France yet they are given the whistle in a URC semi. Neither are regarded as top officials even in the URC. Andy Brace was on the line and he is by selection an Elite World Rugby Referee who will be in the middle in France. Chris Busby was on the other line. He has been selected on the line for France. Why were higher calibre officials not picked?
It was the same last year. Piardi and Adamson. Both panned by all 4vsets of fans for their performances. Both had long debriefs post game(I know a little birdy).
So why are the URC appointing referees who are by Elite selection not good enough? Remember Adamson refereed tests in the Autumn and in the 6N and now is not even going to the RWC as an AR. That shows how World Rugby rate his season. Its all just extremely odd. Frank Murphys rise in Ireland was a puzzler to a lot of people in the AIL as he was never known as a good referee at that level.

So....why were they out there today. Do the organisers not respect the integrity of the competition?

Honestly in shock. Never thought I see Brace and high caliber in the same sentence. Am I thinking of the same guy?

 

[Curls]

Again will disagree. And fair it is debatable. But on the aftermath I can 100% say it is lies and sad conspiracy. Story. we both know as I said if there was any hint of truth in it that alot of media with sources better than me or you would have reported that. Frank or his team apologised to nobody and also Leinster coaches were mixing with Munster coaches for well over hour after game and again it was definitely not fact.

On refs pathways I 100% agree it is not perfect. But that is a sepperate argument to the BS I'm seen sprouted around and do think it reflects badly on a minority of Leinster who really can't take the beating it seems.
Maybe it a sign of what the pressure is for next week. I personally think Leinster win pulling up next week but yeah it is a bit shocking all these conspiracies. I'm around a long time and it rare you see a team struggle to take beating as much as the Saturday result.

Most of the media in the 6 nations unions are unofficially barred from going after referees. Similar to the coaching staff publicly attacking them in the media. If RTE were to do a segment attacking a given referee or print details of reviews or reports critical of a performance they would likely see their access restricted to media events by the governing body. All of course by coincidence....not enough chairs or something.
I feel its very unfair to denigrate Leinster fans for their response and to dismiss concerns. Leinster have lost games before without too much clamour. Among the fan base their is a real grievance fuelled by demonstrable errors in officiating at key moments. There have been no militant youtube breakdowns of errors eventhough they are there. Perhaps TASAnalytics is in his bunker now in Jo'Burg. If the Stormers scoop one back illegally and drop a goal in Cape Town to win it I'll be looking for the roundly magnanimous response from Munster fans. No need to mention Munsters sour conspiracy claims against Neil Back all these years on for example . Imagine if former Tigers man Frank Murphy was in the middle that day?
I have family that are Munster through and through and they admitted had roles been reversed they wouldn't be happy.

The strength of feeling is fuelled by the fact the possible conflict of interests was brought up before the game. For people with an inside knowledge of Leinster and the IRFU or anyone who followed the AIL around 2015 events here become problematic. If it were a Christmas Derby one might shrug the appointment off but surely for a URC semi the organisers must do a little better than that. Next time Frank Murphy takes charge of Munster in the league you can be sure the opposition whomever they are will see him as less than neutral even if that's unfair. Frank Murphy becomes the final victim as I think this mud will stick a little now. If he takes charge of Leinster again and makes another error then it puts himself and selection committee in a tough spot.
But this is a structural issue. If you don't promote your best a brightest you end up getting hamstrung.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A vocal group of Munster fans whinge about Irish media praising Leinster for being a good team, they can't be too offended at a bit of whinging back.

I haven't seen a lot of bad reactions from Leinster fans to be honest, we just don't care that much about this comp this season after Marseille, certainly no one as bad or as prominent as that three red kings fool on twitter who has been absolutely graceless - watch him whinge about the ref next weekend if Leinster win a close game. Of course, he's just having fun and the goys are the sensitive ones...

A lot of people just want better officiating standards in the tournament, Munster fans want this too, it's really not the time get defensive. Whatever the extent you think of it, Saturday's game was farcical in terms of officiating, there's no denying that and it shouldn't be repeated.

 

[munstermuffin]

True. Alot of Munster whinge about Irish selections been bias toward Leinster. 100% but christ I have never seen anyone go to lengths that curls for example and a few are going to. There is whinging and there is conspiracy theories. Christ Frank Murphy apologised was 1 of best ones yet.

In 2002 I was involved with Munster. Not on the pitch but do you know what many Munster fans were like after that day?
Joel Jutge did not get 1 insult. No conspiracy. No hammering him. Were we ****** off. Yes but most (and I believe Josh Kronfield said this many years later) praised Neil Back. Said if it were the other way around we would have done same.
I'm not dismissing any grievances. More putting it straight. I've been involved a long time. John Kelly's famous try that was disallowed in France before. And never have I heard as much whinging and conspiracy theories as I had after Saturday.
So again I believe Curls you have no real inside knowledge it seems if you think Neil Back is a hated figure here. He has been here even for functions.

Again the appointment process I accept is an issue. But totally seperate to the large amount of whinging and whinging from a minority I guess didn't follow Leinster pre 2009.

@Le Frére Alpha I go at pains to say minority everytime when saying Leinster because I have met a good few even after game who did say we were the better team and wished us well. Accepted errors on both sides but said we were on a different level intensity wise and in terms of possession/territory,

Again I am not defending Frank. We had issues in past when Rolland used to get derby the whole time. But like then I don't think it can be said oh Frank was difference in game. That is BS and he wasn't great for Munster either I might add. But never denied the process as a whole was issue.

As I said I don't know why Holly Davidson or someone like that could have been brought in.

And equally that is the point I think Leinster were comprehensively beaten in performance terms as their eyes are firmly on next week. Call it straight URC won't define a season. But for them next week defines not just a season but you'd argue a generation as I feel next year with Sexton gone there will be a bit of feet finding as 10 is a pivotal spot.

 

[Curls]

True. Alot of Munster whinge about Irish selections been bias toward Leinster. 100% but christ I have never seen anyone go to lengths that curls for example and a few are going to. There is whinging and there is conspiracy theories. Christ Frank Murphy apologised was 1 of best ones yet.

In 2002 I was involved with Munster. Not on the pitch but do you know what many Munster fans were like after that day?
Joel Jutge did not get 1 insult. No conspiracy. No hammering him. Were we ****** off. Yes but most (and I believe Josh Kronfield said this many years later) praised Neil Back. Said if it were the other way around we would have done same.
I'm not dismissing any grievances. More putting it straight. I've been involved a long time. John Kelly's famous try that was disallowed in France before. And never have I heard as much whinging and conspiracy theories as I had after Saturday.
So again I believe Curls you have no real inside knowledge it seems if you think Neil Back is a hated figure here. He has been here even for functions.

Again the appointment process I accept is an issue. But totally seperate to the large amount of whinging and whinging from a minority I guess didn't follow Leinster pre 2009.

@Le Frére Alpha I go at pains to say minority everytime when saying Leinster because I have met a good few even after game who did say we were the better team and wished us well. Accepted errors on both sides but said we were on a different level intensity wise and in terms of possession/territory,

Again I am not defending Frank. We had issues in past when Rolland used to get derby the whole time. But like then I don't think it can be said oh Frank was difference in game. That is BS and he wasn't great for Munster either I might add. But never denied the process as a whole was issue.

As I said I don't know why Holly Davidson or someone like that could have been brought in.

And equally that is the point I think Leinster were comprehensively beaten in performance terms as their eyes are firmly on next week. Call it straight URC won't define a season. But for them next week defines not just a season but you'd argue a generation as I feel next year with Sexton gone there will be a bit of feet finding as 10 is a pivotal spot.

Just a few factual observations.
1)Rolland refereed 1 competitive League game between Leinster and Munster when one of the French refs pulled up injured. Munster dragged their heels in agreeing but did so to avoid looking like they questioned the integrity of World Rugbys top referee. So I presume the whole time is that 80 mins? Plus he refereed a World Cup Final and is different calibre to Murphy.
2)I attended a Halloween bonfire in 2003 in Cork where a dummy in a Leicester Tigers jersey was burned so yeh...really magnanimous. I used the Neil Back example because I knew you'd claim it was not strongly reacted to at the time.
3) Joel Judge got no insults because he was on the other side of the scrum and had no TMO, but the AR got plenty of abuse after.

I'm willing to bet that if Craig Casey has the ball at his feet next week in Cape Town and a Stormers hand in the ruck pulls it to their side leading to their winning score we'll see no complaints from Munster?

 

[Groundhog]

A lot of thesis length posts in this thread and elsewhere from a fan base who don't care about this competition.

Even the Irish Times are getting in on it!


Absolute word vomit of an article

 

[unrated]

A pretty engaging game at the Aviva. As a Leinster fan I'm not exactly sure why we seemed to have offered this up to the gods pre game. I had a feeling we would come apart and we did. Hoping for better next week.

On a wider note something struck me watching the games. It was the referees. Now I'll lay out my cards. I thought Frank Murphy made some very poor and inconsistent decisions that hurt Leinster. Not least missing what was an obvious Munster hand regaining possession on the floor for the drop goal but had Frawley converted the last try it would have been irrelevant.

Anyhow more to my point. Mike Adamson and Frank Murphy. Both have been deemed by World Rugby unfit to carry a flag in France yet they are given the whistle in a URC semi. Neither are regarded as top officials even in the URC. Andy Brace was on the line and he is by selection an Elite World Rugby Referee who will be in the middle in France. Chris Busby was on the other line. He has been selected on the line for France. Why were higher calibre officials not picked?
It was the same last year. Piardi and Adamson. Both panned by all 4vsets of fans for their performances. Both had long debriefs post game(I know a little birdy).
So why are the URC appointing referees who are by Elite selection not good enough? Remember Adamson refereed tests in the Autumn and in the 6N and now is not even going to the RWC as an AR. That shows how World Rugby rate his season. Its all just extremely odd. Frank Murphys rise in Ireland was a puzzler to a lot of people in the AIL as he was never known as a good referee at that level.

So....why were they out there today. Do the organisers not respect the integrity of the competition?

Referees dont start out as elite, they have to grow and develop. If you cant be backed for your domestic competition there is a problem.

 

[Curls]

Referees dont start out as elite, they have to grow and develop. If you cant be backed for your domestic competition there is a problem.

Elite referees don't start out at 39 years old and 8 years after appointment to the National Panel either. Frank Murphy has been backed more than any other referee in Ireland. He was given more games than any other to develop. He was given more rope than his contemporaries yet his contemporaries consistently out performed him in the AIL and he has been wholey middling in his performances in pro rugby. If you are appointing guys like that to your show piece domestic games there is a problem.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just a few factual observations.
1)Rolland refereed 1 competitive League game between Leinster and Munster when one of the French refs pulled up injured. Munster dragged their heels in agreeing but did so to avoid looking like they questioned the integrity of World Rugbys top referee. So I presume the whole time is that 80 mins? Plus he refereed a World Cup Final and is different calibre to Murphy.
2)I attended a Halloween bonfire in 2003 in Cork where a dummy in a Leicester Tigers jersey was burned so yeh...really magnanimous. I used the Neil Back example because I knew you'd claim it was not strongly reacted to at the time.
3) Joel Judge got no insults because he was on the other side of the scrum and had no TMO, but the AR got plenty of abuse after.

I'm willing to bet that if Craig Casey has the ball at his feet next week in Cape Town and a Stormers hand in the ruck pulls it to their side leading to their winning score we'll see no complaints from Munster?

I think if you did your fact checking right on Rolland and come back to me then we can discuss. As you are wrong there. And time you mentioned was it not fog.
Secondly so what you're saying is if Murphy was a RWC final ref it is ok yes??

2. You used 1 bonfire. So same happened before about Mick Galway is Dublin but over a BBQ. Was seen as joje but presumably you paint everyone with same brush.

Nobody said you'd hear no complaints. More the extent of whinging. Evn look at yourself. You putting in superb effort to cry. Even making up blatant lies post game. Bernard Jackman even had mention on it today. But I find it funny your cover up is "media would be forbidden". And on Judge comments again that means so Frank might have been blind sighted so is clear and TMO should have called him on it or AR Saturday. Or is this just a difference to argument.
A bit of advice is maybe if you're going to make up BS be consistent as there is ao many holes in your ways I'm loosing count what argument you genuinely on.

 

[munstermuffin]

Referees dont start out as elite, they have to grow and develop. If you cant be backed for your domestic competition there is a problem.

I think Curls is just loosing track of which story road he is making that he wants to believe more. Should add some ex players go through fast as they are good. Glen Jackson is good example.
Genuinely Curls I'd say there might be a personal gripe there whatever happened but in all unions some refs have fast tracked in a deserving way. Not saying Frank did but it BS to say he was only one given opportunity