Transfers 2015/16

[nickdnz]

Did you even read the article you posted?

He played 6 games at 6 - hardly continuously moving position until he got back to NZ (who then developed him into a centre apparently)?

The talk about playing him elsewhere was just that, talk - it never came to pass so it's clearly irrelevant.

It was clear to everyone that he was a centre/outside back.

Couldn't be bothered responding but I guess I will.

Did you even even read the article I posted? I'm not sure how my point was missed.

My article posted was that Sonny Bill Williams was used at 6 for six games at Toulon, as opposed to 'exclusively at centre'. The article (which is dated November 2010, a relatively similar time as Burgess started playing) features speculation on where he will play Super Rugby from journalists and Wayne Smith:

The All Blacks coaches have been so impressed with the 25-year-old's physical attributes, Smith envisaged Williams could be utilised on the blindside flank of a Crusaders loose trio already comprising Kieran Read and Richie McCaw.

"During Super rugby he may have a crack at other positions, he had six weeks at (No) 6 for Toulon," said Smith as the squad adjusted to a frigid Edinburgh ahead of Sunday's (NZT) test with Scotland at Murrayfield.
"He's a different sort of athlete, he's an athlete where we've just go to see what best suits him - and the team."

Now the point of this article was pointing that there was still speculation - leading into a Rugby World Cup year - whether he would in fact be played as a centre of blindside. Wayne Smith was the assistant couch of the All Blacks, so it's not exactly 'clear to everyone'. Even in this article he was used as a 13 in the previous game. He played one of his Canterbury games at wing and wasn't considered there again until the Rugby World Cup, where they made room for him. The direct comparison between Sonny Bill Williams and Sam Burgess was in the medias speculation of a 'project' resulting in selection. I was never meaning to infer that Sonny Bill Williams had not had more experience than Sam Burgess - however in the eyes of the NZRU's coaches, and the NZ media, he clearly was still considered a project. Again - whether it is reality of not - form in the Top 14 is not supposed to influence NZRU coaching decisions. It is meant to be based on form in NPC/SR...

Again, SBW was approached pre-2008 to play rugby union. Had he played poorly in the Top 14 I'm sure it would have affected NZRU perusing him. I probably didn't give enough credit to his final season in Toulon. However in 2009, the media rhetoric surrounding Sonny Bill Williams was still as a "player with huge potential", rather than a finished product.

When I posted:

"Happened with Sonny Bill Williams as well. However I guarantee it'll get Burgess selected. In SBW's debut season he was selected after 7 games for Canterbury (and of course Canterbury club Belfast..), when Freuan was playing much better. Only a few months ago I heard the idiot Willie Lose claims that the All Blacks wouldn't have won the RWC without their best player SBW (who had ***** all starting time in playoff matches and was used mainly out of position on the wing). It's the annoying thing when media hype genuinely effects selections due to marketing reasons."

I vastly underestimated the pedantic nature of our members. Now I think the thread has probably used its designated page to go off topic. I welcome anyone to PM me as to where exactly I have gone horrifically wrong in this most recent post.

 

[goodNumber10]

Couldn't be bothered responding but I guess I will.

Did you even even read the article I posted? I'm not sure how my point was missed.

My article posted was that Sonny Bill Williams was used at 6 for six games at Toulon, as opposed to 'exclusively at centre'. The article (which is dated November 2010, a relatively similar time as Burgess started playing) features speculation on where he will play Super Rugby from journalists and Wayne Smith.

Now the point of this article was pointing that there was still speculation - leading into a Rugby World Cup year - whether he would in face be played as a centre of blindside. Wayne Smith was the assistant couch of the All Blacks, so it's not exactly 'clear to everyone'. Even in this article he was used as a 13 in the previous game. He played one of his Canterbury games at wing and wasn't considered there again until the Rugby World Cup, where they made room for him. The direct comparison between Sonny Bill Williams and Sam Burgess was in the medias speculation of a 'project' resulting in selection. I was never meaning to infer that Sonny Bill Williams had not had more experience than Sam Burgess - however in the eyes of the NZRU's coaches, and the NZ media, he clearly was still considered a project. Again - whether it is reality of not - form in the Top 14 is not supposed to influence NZRU coaching decisions. It is meant to be based on form in NPC/SR...

Yes, and it then goes on to say the experiment of him playing backrow was tried abandoned - you're using the musings of a coach to claim that 30+ games of union in France did not add to SBW's stock and that in fact it took NZ coaches to decide he was a Centre and upskill him (in 7 games no less) - all of which is simply not true.

Coaches say these things all the time, the proof is in the fact they didn't move him elsewhere.

It doesn't matter if the NZ RFU looked at him post move to France, you can't just eradicate three years & 30 games because it doesn't suit your point.

Again, SBW was approached pre-2008 to play rugby union. Had he played poorly in the Top 14 I'm sure it would have affected NZRU perusing him. I probably didn't give enough credit to his final season in Toulon. However in 2009, the media rhetoric surrounding Sonny Bill Williams was still as a "player with huge potential", rather than a finished product.

Yes, poor NH rugby again thank heavens he got some proper coaching before he made his all black debut...

I vastly underestimated the pedantic nature of our members.

We're the pedants yet you're the one arguing whether 6 games out of 30 precludes the use of the term 'exclusively'.

 

[psychic duck]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10686388

By his second season he played much better, granted. I guess after 30 games, yes some in different positions, we can deem whether the Burgess experiment is a success or failure.

I disagree that his Top 14 form had much to do with the NZRU wanting him. He was approached pre-2008 by the NZRU. Again throughout his first NPC season, and indeed continuing into 2008, he was seen as an option as an experiment and potential option at flanker (as my Waye Smith article demonstrates). My point - which seemed to be thoroughly missed - was that media hype and speculation is probably going to get Sam Burgess selected, over merit, which is what happened in 2010 to SBW. Regardless if people think he was a great player for Toulon from 2008-2010, it was pretty clear few people within the NZRU knew how they were going to use SBW, and her 7 performances for Canterbury didn't really indicate he could do much more than offload, which he did an awful lot, and he was selected in front of other better performing players at the time.

Article is wrong. All of SBW's starts at Toulon was at either 12 or 13, at least in competitive games. You're being harsh on SBW, he's one of the most talented players in the world. Of course the media are going to be hyped up about his debut.

 

[psychic duck]

Okay. I recall him being used there, no idea if he started there or not (which the article didn't specify). I'm not being harsh on SBW at all, in terms of talent I would select him at 12 for the RWC ahead of Nonu. He is also a much better player than Freuan at the present. Regardless, he was not playing better than Freuan during the 2010 NPC, and his selection was influenced by the media hyperbole surrounding his performances (which was related to the post I was replying to on Burgess for the Saxons...). Either way I have moved well past the point of caring. Does anyone have any transfer news?

Maybe the NZRU management simply realised his talent and potentiality was far greater than most players in the NPC?

 

[goodNumber10]

6/30 = 20%. Now when your wife tells you that she sleeps with you 'exclusively' - I take it you let the 20% of the time the postman comes around slide?

WOW! what an incredibly sh*tty thing to say (especially as you've been proved wrong)..... Not sure the personal insults are called for just because I said NZ posters are continually critcising NH rugby.

For that i repeatedly get called a Pr*t and then my family insulted.

Classy look for a MOD.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Come in to look at transfer news............

 

[gaston le gaff]

Originally Posted by TRF_nickdnz
6/30 = 20%. Now when your wife tells you that she sleeps with you 'exclusively' - I take it you let the 20% of the time the postman comes around slide?

WOW! what an incredibly sh*tty thing to say (especially as you've been proved wrong)..... Not sure the personal insults are called for just because I said NZ posters are continually critcising NH rugby.

For that i repeatedly get called a Pr*t and then my family insulted.

Classy look for a MOD.

I do believe as a Mod control should be ensured at all times and examples set, from the above post far from it!!!!! this petty little argument you are having with GN 10 is pathetic and then you start slagging someone you do not even know about his wife and her sleeping habits you horrible little sh**......... B. E. WAS BANNED FOR RACIST REMARKS I PERSONNALLY THINK YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FOR REMARKS ABOUT SOMEONE WIFE WHO YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW, never mind what you are insinuating!!!!

How pathetic and low can a MOD stoop too i would hope an immediate apology is forth coming.......

 

[LittleGuy]

Big Ewis wasn't banned simply for those remarks but for constant violations of the terms of service, believe me when I was on staff I stuck my neck out for him like 10 times only for another issue to pop up like a month later he could have been banned for constantly going around the swear filter for instance. Not everything he contributed was bad and I quite liked some of his posts and he did set up some threads but let's not pretend he never caused problems until that moment.

 

[goodNumber10]

Think this is all getting a bit out of hand. Let's all just chill now and get back onto transfers....

 

[gaston le gaff]

[=LittleGuy;705255]Big Ewis wasn't banned simply for those remarks but for constant violations of the terms of service, believe me when I was on staff I stuck my neck out for him like 10 times only for another issue to pop up like a month later he could have been banned for constantly going around the swear filter for instance. Not everything he contributed was bad and I quite liked some of his posts and he did set up some threads but let's not pretend he never caused problems until that moment.[/QUOTE]

Noone said he should not be banned or pretend he did not cause problems, this is entirely different and an attack on GN 10 person and family by a MOD who should be banned for his remarks and apologise in the same breath!!!!!

 

[CarferFragen]

Rodrigo Báez and Matías Alemanno signed this afternoon in Rosario their three-year contracts with Argentina Rugby Union, thinking of the Super Rugby, Rugby Championship and RWC.

 

[nickdnz]

WOW! what an incredibly sh*tty thing to say (especially as you've been proved wrong)..... Not sure the personal insults are called for just because I said NZ posters are continually critcising NH rugby.

For that i repeatedly get called a Pr*t and then my family insulted.

Classy look for a MOD.

Not sure where I've been proved wrong. I don't know your wife or specifically that you are married - I was trying to illustrate that 20% was not a negligible figure and the 'your' was anyone...

Apologies, as I can see how it could have been taken.

I do believe as a Mod control should be ensured at all times and examples set, from the above post far from it!!!!! this petty little argument you are having with GN 10 is pathetic and then you start slagging someone you do not even know about his wife and her sleeping habits you horrible little sh**......... B. E. WAS BANNED FOR RACIST REMARKS I PERSONNALLY THINK YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FOR REMARKS ABOUT SOMEONE WIFE WHO YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW, never mind what you are insinuating!!!!

How pathetic and low can a MOD stoop too i would hope an immediate apology is forth coming.......

Then report it.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Rodrigo Báez and Matías Alemanno signed this afternoon in Rosario their three-year contracts with Argentina Rugby Union, thinking of the Super Rugby, Rugby Championship and RWC.

Sounds like Argentina are really starting to pick up on the signings.

Wonder how many more European Argentinians will be off?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Sounds like Argentina are really starting to pick up on the signings.

Wonder how many more European Argentinians will be off?

Im guessing most of the guys under 25.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Have you heard anything about Ringo?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nope.

I'd imagine he's either going at the end of this season or not at all... bearing in mind he'll be 31 when this team actually starts playing.

 

[CarferFragen]

Sounds like Argentina are really starting to pick up on the signings.

Wonder how many more European Argentinians will be off?

Confirmed:

Ayerza (out)
Fernández Lobbe (out)
Bosch (out)

The rest to confirm

- - - Updated - - -

Facundo Isa, Jeronimo de la Fuente and Manuel Montero closed their respective commitments to the UAR in last night and thus joined Rodrigo Baez and Matías Alemanno, who had already given their agreement by signing two contracts with the Union earlier yesterday

 

[Every Time Ref]

Nope.

I'd imagine he's either going at the end of this season or not at all... bearing in mind he'll be 31 when this team actually starts playing.

True, no shortage of good young Argentinian wingers either

 

[CarferFragen]

More players sign up for Super Rugby in Argentina

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/more-players-sign-up-for-super-rugby-in-argentina/

Updated List:

Tomás Cubelli (12 June 1989, scrumhalf, 34 caps)
Tomás Lezana (16 February 1994, loose forward, 1 cap)
Javier Ortega Desio (14 June 1990, loose forward, 12 caps)
Matías Orlando (14 November 1991, centre, 9 caps)
Gabriel Ascárate (20 October 1987, centre/wing, 14 caps)
Martin Landajo (14 June 1988, scrumhalf/flyhalf, 40 caps)
Guido Petti Pagadizábal (17 November 1994, lock, 2 caps)
Pablo Matera (18 July 1993, flanker, 13 caps)
Matías Alemanno (5 December 1991, lock, 11 caps)
Rodrigo Baez (8 February 1989, loose forward, 16 caps)
Jerónimo de la Fuente (24 February 1991, centre, 9 caps)
Facundo Isa (21 September 1993, loose forward, 3 caps)
Manuel Montero (20 November 1991, utility back, 20 caps)

The group all signed contracts until at least the end of the 2017 season following a Pampas XV training session in Rosario on Tuesday.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Looking good. They should put in a good shift next year I'll wager!