Top 14 Day 12

[Tony Manx]

yup, shoot me please.. PLEAAAASE !!!!! :cryy:

Teams to be announced in a couple of hours.

I'm going to go with:
- Toulon with defensive bonus Clermont
- Castres over Racing, have a feeling the C.O. will have something good in store
- Comfy Toulouse win over Grenoble
- La Rochelle over Bayonne
- Lyon over MP: Galthié's men haven't looked themselves at all since TD's injury and Lyon can't afford to lose at home
- Oyomen to beat Bordeaux in fortress Mathon
- SF to put 40 past Brive. The Parisians took 50 last time out in the volcano and are back home and will be anxious to set the record straight to start this new cycle off with punch, and those boys certainly can put on a show.

All home wins, no joker for me.

Would agree except support for UBB leads me to say that is my joker!!!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

MONTPELLIER'S STARTING XV AND BENCH FOR TOMORROWS GAME V LYON : Fall ; Nagusa, Ranger, Ebersohn, Dupon ; (o) Lucas, (m) Iribaren ; Bias, Tulou, Ouedraogo ; Timani, Donnelly ; Mas, Ivaldi, Nariashvili. Remplaçants: Bianchin, Watremez, Privat, Battut, Paillaugue, Olivier, Sicart, Cilliers. Hope its good enogh to do the job!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

Going to

Clermont not going to Nice to play Pétanque...resting int'ls though (no Chouly, Fofana, Lopez, Vahaamahina).
Toulon with Giteau's recent forfeit, Sanchez gets a second chance at 10, not very convincing and quite a few errors his first time but obviously he's brand new. But otherwise, RCT solid solid solid.

- - - Updated - - -

The return of the Tsar for Racing on the bench.

 

[Big Ewis]

CASTRES

Le XV de départ : Palis ; Martial, Cabannes, Lamerat, Sivivatu ; (o) Tales (cap), (m) Kockott ; Caballero, Beattie, Faasalele ; Capo Ortega, Gray ; Herrera, Mach, Taumoepeau.
Les remplaçants : Bonello, Lazar, Diarra, Bornman, Garcia, Combezou, Dumora, Montes.

Dat backline....

 

[Tony Manx]

At least UBB have a decent 9 starting..........................Allez Bordeaux!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

This is the Toulouse compo.
I don't like the 2 props starting. Tialata is a waste of space. Coq au Vin (Kakovin)? :huh:I would target that frontrow if I were Landreau but thank god for Grenoble I'm not.
I think Johnston & Steenkamp would fare better. But I like the fact that 19 yo Julien Marchand a promising Espoir is here. I hope he comes on. Flood makes the bench which is great for him. Lamboley managed to push his zimmer frame all the way to the stadium without his mamy's help. He makes the bench for that feat alone.
Médard is recovering from his trip to Paris. Poor Max didn't enjoy his meeting agst the Pampa boys. He got a last minute call because Teddy was sent to the Bold boys corner for picking his nose during video tea with Ouin Ouin and his gang at Marccroupis.

I really like that backrow of Nyanga Hari Picamoles. I think it's our most competitive. We have the Maginot boys in the centre. No prisoners will be taken.

En piste ! Hoping to watch a proper game of rugger as opposed to the inhibited majorettes at Stade de France :lol:

 

[Big Ewis]

(had already posted the ST 23 ! What do you take me for !!)

Toulouse must be the most loaded club in that third row in Europe (if not more). Hari, Dusau, Nyanga, Picamoles and those are just the main guys without even counting the Maka monster, Galan or the young Camara...

Maginot boys hahaha...pretty good, or we could say the Panzer Divizione also...

Very nice to see Marchand there indeed. Boy needs some game time, happy Novès is fielding the fresh meat too. Lamboley playing ??...hhmmm...
And up front yes a bit weak, and yes Steenkamp is better for sure and still relevant, but Johnston has just become a fkng penalty-magnet in the scrum although he can still offer fine activity around the park. That Tialata guy has had his difficulties but also some retribution at scrum time, I'm split (partagé) about him and would like to see a bit more. Grenoble may not be the best test up front though...

 

[Big Ewis]

Toulouse Grenoble. A comedy of errors. A parody of a match. The baaaad Toulouse showed up tonight, dumb, error prone, and with little to no adaptation ability. Let's just put 50% of the blame on the rustiness

Castres lose another one, very disappointing :/

 

[FrenchFan]

1. we had 2 injuries last minute before kick-off. Losing Mc Alister and Hari was disruptive. Their replacement, Flood & Lamboley didn't the look the part
2. Torrential weather: it rained during the whole game. Not a game for the backs. In a bizarre twist, at the back of the last scrum when we were in an excellent position to score, Picamoles fumbled the ball due the pitch completely folding under the push. We won the scrum but the ball got stuck in a fold of the pitch, Louis couldn't pull the ball out and got caught by their scrum half.

3. JM Doussain forgot his kicking boots and missed 2 kicks incl. 1 sitter.

But credit to Grenoble, they stuck the ball up their jumper and played the right tactical game. Wisniesky took up right where he left after his record 27 pt tally and he was the difference with his kick. We get the bonus point. A close, honourable defeat. I think a draw would have been a fairer result.

Hope we get Mc Al and Hari back for next weekend.

Merci de votre attention...c'était Radio Toulouse...

 

[Big Ewis]

no no, stop being so biased, radio to-lose
Toulouse had no form, were slow, predictable and couldn't change anything in their game the entire way. Couldn't take advantage of all the quality they had everywhere on that xv, even if indeed Mr. Flood was pretty awful overall.
Doussain didn't forget his kicking boots or anything, he never had any in the first place, and seemed to shrink under pressure there.
Picamoles commits ANOTHER mistake on that stupid knock-on back of the scrum, just another awful point in the match, a match to forget.

Toulouse must forget all, all, all about this match and move on and certainly not let this horror show set them back again. First time Grenoble wins in Toulouse since 1993, more than 20 years ago. Man, Pulp Fiction or Forrest Gump didn't exist back then and if they were going to beat Toulouse, it was most certainly on that rainy, shiitty, ****ty day (for there was more shiit than rain). They took their chances, were FAR from glorious themselves, but a win's a win, especially when you've broken a two-decade + record.

I pray Toulouse move on, forget about this, call it bad form, rain, and rustiness from the long 3-week break (Paris and Brive were fkng awful too today) - and get back to that previous dynamic because there's a big European game next week, and Glasgow's no joke.

 

[FrenchFan]

Grenoble played well. I said on Friday http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/34468-Top-14-Day-12?p=694003&viewfull=1#post694003
before the game that Grenoble are a good side, which they showed to be. I also said we would be slow off the blocks after the long break, and we were.
And I said it would be a much closer game than many thought. We were levelled 22 pt all just on 80 min. Grenoble's winner was kicked in extra time. Can't get closer than that! I was right on all 3.

Doussain had a good game overall except for his penalty kicking. He missed 2 crucial kicks one of them absolut sitter. Because a seemingly easy kick becomes much more difficult with rain+wind (I was at the game). But that's rugby. Grenoble adapted better than we did.

Picamoles didn't knock on. He could'nt pull the ball out from the scrum we won because it got caught in the folded turf. He was tackled fairly by their SH, there was no knock on. Watch the replay they showed on Jour de rugby.

I thought sunday's game was allright. 4 tries were scored with both sides willing to run the ball. SF let Brive back into the game and gave away penalties. Paris looked like they were going to run with it but didn't. So it was a tight finish and Brive could have sneaked in at the end. Pitch and conditions were much better than down here. Not a bad game at all.

And the Toulon Clermont game was a cracker.

 

[gaston le gaff]

so after a long and disappointing trip to Wolf counntry (LOU for those xho do not no Lyon) we had our noses in front after 75 mins then gave it away at the death, 1 pts when we could have had 4pts the pack played like heroes and the backs made too many bad choices but thats life wonder who we are going to sack this week (could be me)as for the rest Castres lose at home Brive come really close and TOULOOSE, well i never, things are going from bad to to good and back to bloody awful, must admit they must be really pleased signing Toby Flooooooood, and Dousain has to stop kicking penalties he missed one in front of the posts against us a couple of seasons back, a draw for Rassie and La Rochelle, the rest came out as predicked!!!!!! Bath now home then away a little trip to blighty for 5 days and some Guiness plus will see the kids!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FrenchFan]

Not sure what's wrong with Flood and why he's not playing. He doesn't like rain i think.

Doussain has showed is more than an able 10. So is Bézy. There always Mc Alister. But I'd like to see a Doussain Bézy partnership tried. I hope we do as Bézy has been in good form.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Does not like rain that must be the understatement of the year,he is English he must love the rain!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

Pretty hilarious how Smade Trançais is as high as 3rd and down 30 in the difference column ! Same way Grenoble is 5th and down 40+.
Toulouse remain at 7th despite another home disaster, lucky with how the math worked there...Bordeaux still hanging on to that 6th final playoff spot for now...
At the top, no difference. The top 2 teams are irrefutably the top 2 teams, but Racing are making a nice run towards there...

 

[tituslechmakus]

Hey mates ! Was stunned when I saw the final score at Toulouse (couldn't wathc the match) ! That is crazy !!! Do you think we can finish in top 6 or are we going to collapse in March like the 2 last seasons ? We have a much stronger back line ...

 

[Big Ewis]

Hey mates ! Was stunned when I saw the final score at Toulouse (couldn't wathc the match) ! That is crazy !!! Do you think we can finish in top 6 or are we going to collapse in March like the 2 last seasons ? We have a much stronger back line ...

I don't know. And nobody here can answer that with any credibility. I'd need to know way more about Grenoble and the league than I do now, like, inside knowledge, real insight. But as a couch specialist who watches the league week in week out, all I can say is:
Grenoble have real guarantees with Wisn this season. A 10 of his quality is everything. He's a good tactical kicker, he makes his backs play when need be and can finish off a break nicely, knows how to change direction and bonnify a good attacking situation. His decision making is top, and his goal kicking is literally top (of the entire Top 14). That insures a number of things for a team, tempo, and materializing strong situations into points. He's shown a few times he's got real nerves and doesn't shy away from the clutch spotlight, as recently as Saturday night with the winning goal kick.
Grenoble overall are good on their fundamentals and a smart, very well coached club. They've shown yesterday in particular they don't need to be making the plays, they can play off the opponents and can hold defensively very well and then play an occupation game. But they obviously lack the quality pieces individually. Their strong point up front isn't the front row but the back row (Alexandre, Grice, Vanderglas) a very solid backbone to the pack and a high activity, versatile back row.

Looking at the teams in the Top 6 right now (besides Gre): Toulon, Clermont are the only absolute certainties. Then Racing and Paris will most likely make it. But then you've got Bordeaux, and Toulouse looking in from very near, with Montypellier only out temporarily and weathering the storm (Trinh-Duc's absence) but have enough time to come back.
I'm not sure this year will be any different than the last two, but I do think Wisn alone can be the key for that change.

 

[FrenchFan]

Did any one watch Toulon v Clermont? cracking game.

My pick for Toulon is Sanchez who has all the makings of the 10 Toulon are looking for.

I don't know how Romain Taofifenua doesn't make les Bleus. It's a mystery. He had an another excellent game and he's been a regular first starter. He is an abosulte monster of a 2nd row yet shows great mobility and awareness, and some slick handling. To me he is a shoe-in for 6N.

When you look at Vahaamina Marshmallow that was selected agst Arg who had, as predicted by many, no impact whatsoever. At one stage I could have sworn there was only 1 second row on the pitch Papé worked like a Trojan but was alone. I watched the game at the club and the running joke during the 1st half was : where o where is Vahaamina?
Rugbyrama's take on Vahaamina's selection was that "he would be adding power to the pack"?! :lol:

And it took 50 minutes for the staff to get their fingers out and bring on Maestri who should have been starting all day.

Vahaamina could have been taking a leak by the sideline he'd have had more impact.

 

[Big Ewis]

well Romain Tao was suspended this entire time, remember. He was cited. I'm a fan of the guy, and yep he's got some soft hands for such a monster, made 3 offloads the other day.
In a perfect world, I'd want Tao+Maestri and a more focused-on-the-game Papé and a Vahaa who actually plays as he should consistently.

There's no doubt about Vahaamahina's Rugby ability, this isn't one of those "what if/how could've been if"...we KNOW what he can do, and we've seen how easily he could do it.
We're talking about a 2m +, 120kg+ guy with better mobility than he should have, more quickness than he should, and just natural athleticism and an ease on a Rugby field few have given his dimensions. He's actually got good technique to go along with it. If he really wanted, he'd carry like a beast Picamoles-style, turnover on the ground like an openside flanker, and would add loads of power to the defense and rucks and French pack overall.
People as usual have exaggerated his performance against the Pumas, he just didn't get much ball, but he was there putting in some effort, but yes there are times you wonder if he's even happy to be selected *at all*...I don't understand him. He's still very young, mind you. 23yo...

Yeah the Toulon Clermont game was up to standard, the only for the weekend at that...everybody else was rusty as fk, it wasn't pretty.

 

[FrenchFan]

I think you're mistaken about the role of a 2nd row probably because you've never played the game.

A 2nd row has to be able to show grunt and physicality before he shows off skills. He is not there to shine ball in hand and offload like a centre. He has to do the hard graft FIRST before anything else. Because that's his job. They don't call it la cage for nothing...And Vaha didn't do that agst Arg. He went missing in far too many rucks. He didn't bring the power & Grunt the staff said he would.

My point is Vaha has been asked to fullfill a role for which he is not cut out. That's just another red flag for the staff. Look at the level of (positive) aggression & physicality the Arg forwards brought into the game. What a contrast. This is what made the difference, not athleticism or better hands. There was only Papé Guirado & LeRoux to match them. Not enough. Chouly was taking a leak as well...
Just being big and athletic isn't enough when the opposition is just the same. He doesn't show enough aggression and physicality esp. at international level because I don't believe it's in his make-up and many Perpignan fans have been saying it since he started playing for them.

C'est un grand caramel mou ton Vaha :lol:

Just as an edit, and I don't want be unfair to Vahaa. I don't doubt his ability and potential. But I honestly think he has been picked into the wrong role. Just like moving him to back row last year was a mistake because he is just not a back row by trade nor by size. I find it unfair and stupid to pick guys out of position and expect them to deliver at international level. It's just bad coaching. Which brings us back to the real issue, not Vahaamina's ability but poor coaching. I could see him better used agst 2nd tier nations (did he play agst Fiji?) to give him time to develop. I wouldn't pick him agst the pack of Pampa hounds because it's just not the game for him. Coaching..................