To Olyy and about "racism"

[TRF_heineken]

Took me far too long to work out 'I ambiguous' was BE is disguise.

I need some more sleep.

Lol. When I read it last night, there weren't any comments yet below his post, I thought it was the return of Cave Dweller...

The nickname actually fits Big E more than Big E... if that makes sense

 

[Patchey]

Lol. When I read it last night, there weren't any comments yet below his post, I thought it was the return of Cave Dweller...

The nickname actually fits Big E more than Big E... if that makes sense

Please, no more talk of Save Dweller...

 

[goodNumber10]

The same is applied to this forum, Olyy did not do the ban alone, he is not Hitler. He took the matter up with the other mods, and the majority agreed that Big E overstepped the boundaries. We are a multinational, multicultural forum, and not all the mods are from one country/culture, so I think it's safe to say after careful deliberation, the correct steps were taken.

Not disagreeing, and the process has to go both ways... we all have to accept things are interpreted differently in different places not just the mods, the users have to be responsible for what they say and how they behave (well as responsible as you can be on an internet forum) and if your comments are being found as offensive it's your responsibility to adjust them to what is considered ok on the forum.

Having said all that I think there have been a few comments of late that have been right on the mark.

 

[Rich Taff]

Strikes me one or two people may be revelling in this and maybe that is another type of "ism" that has not yet been given a name!!

It is a very rare time I take anything from BE seriously as most all of his work is intended as fun or thought provoking rather than malicious.

In any case like beauty sometimes these things are more in the eye of the beholder or, in this case, of the reader!!

+1

 

[nickdnz]

For the record I was the one who reported the post - and the staff unanimously voted that on this instance a line had been crossed. As a group of moderators we are extremely lenient, in fact it takes quite a lot to generally push the staff over the line. Big Ewis's assertion that Olyy has been alone in gunning for him is simply false, over the last 12 months Ewis has received several warnings in relation to content which pushed the limits of the rules, one was off an arguably justifiable complaint from Sam Owen (which we gave him the benefit of the doubt on), and another was in regards to a woman's charity organization (which he was extremely lucky to not get an outright ban). The two week ban is not up for discussion. It is not really a matter of whether someone interprets his comment of 'aborigines have an innate excuse to have a drinking problem' was meant in humor or not - it's whether there is a reasonable basis that it could be interpreted as a racist remark. I think it is generally accepted that everything Big Ewis says is an attempt to be funny - however it also pushed the acceptable boundary we have set on this forum.

 

[Rich Taff]

Just like to point out that I wasn't condoning the post, nor having a go at the mods (Who I've always had excellent interraction with). More along the lines of some people seem to be getting far too much pleasure about the banning of BE.

 

[goodNumber10]

and another was in regards to a woman's charity organization (which he was extremely lucky to not get an outright ban).

I'm curious now!

Just like to point out that I wasn't condoning the post, nor having a go at the mods (Who I've always had excellent interraction with). More along the lines of some people seem to be getting far too much pleasure about the banning of BE.

BACKPEDAL!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

It is not really a matter of whether someone interprets his comment of 'aborigines have an innate excuse to have a drinking problem' was meant in humor or not - it's whether there is a reasonable basis that it could be interpreted as a racist remark. I think it is generally accepted that everything Big Ewis says is an attempt to be funny - however it also pushed the acceptable boundary we have set on this forum.

Agree with this sentiment entirely - a couple of people here have been guilty of effectively 'looking the other way here' - 'we know Ewis probably isn't racist and a true racist wouldn't have said this thing public'. It's just besides the point, completely. If you look at something like LAD culture which can become very misogynistic on the extreme, the problem is that things are couched as being a joke, but its a joke that too many people either buy into or condone by looking away. This is making excuses which is something we simply don't need to do in this case; we don't have to calculate whether Big Ewis is racist or not, we just have to say, that was a racist comment, and action needs to be taken. You don't have to have unacceptable opinions in order to say unacceptable things.

The Mods have done the absolutely right thing. Well done them.

 

[psychic duck]

Lol. When I read it last night, there weren't any comments yet below his post, I thought it was the return of Cave Dweller...

The nickname actually fits Big E more than Big E... if that makes sense

Cave Dweller was a troll but a vastly more entertaining one.

 

[LittleGuy]

Yet the comment is still there for all to see (it's a view able forum publicly).

Not saying you guys are wrong to give him a ban, I actually agreed with Olly at the time that the comment was out of line, and to be fair BE could probably do with taking a short break from here as a few people have got upset of late but if the potential chain effect is one of the main reasoning's for banning him then remove the comment other wise you look like you're just talking the talk.

FWT, i like Ewis, he's been a massive contributor and has helped me out a lot on a number of occasions with zero ulterior motives other than to do a bloke a favour. There is a lot to be understood in how different perceptions of these types of comments can be - i can tell you now in France Ewis comment wouldn't have raised an eyebrow, whereas I'm English and for me it does, as have a few others of late. I'm not saying that makes it ok, i'm just saying it's an international forum and as such things are going to get lost in translation and we're going to encounter things that are acceptable in some countries not being acceptable in others and that maybe the intention is not to offend/cause harm.

This is probably more an oversight than anything else, in the chaos that ensued following the ban (like these sock puppet account postings), the PM's, the mod disscussions behind the scenes, this was likely simply forgotten about.

I only caught all this crap when I came in from work, and had about an hour to deal with a boatload of PM's before the forum servers messed up.

I've gone to bat for BE a number of times in the staff threads, but he's simply pushed one too many times, I would have called for a more lenient ban seeing as to Ewis two weeks on here is more like a year. But regardless it isn't the end of the world, and this thread he created afterwords was doubling down on his behaviour.

It's an incredibly thankless job doing this as a volunteer, I' leaving in two weeks and frankly I'm shocked none of the staff are following me(as of yet), seems every course of action we take on here is wrong according to the membership or not perfect enough.

 

[goodNumber10]

This is probably more an oversight than anything else, in the chaos that ensued following the ban (like these sock puppet account postings), the PM's, the mod disscussions behind the scenes, this was likely simply forgotten about.

fair enough mate, wasn't meant as a major criticsim more an observation based on what was being said - it was 14 hours later i mentione dit.

I only caught all this crap when I came in from work, and had about an hour to deal with a boatload of PM's before the forum servers messed up.

I've gone to bat for BE a number of times in the staff threads, but he's simply pushed one too many times, I would have called for a more lenient ban seeing as to Ewis two weeks on here is more like a year. But regardless it isn't the end of the world, and this thread he created afterwords was doubling down on his behaviour.

Think most sensible people understand this, so wouldn't worry to much about it.

It's an incredibly thankless job doing this as a volunteer, I' leaving in two weeks and frankly I'm shocked none of the staff are following me(as of yet), seems every course of action we take on here is wrong according to the membership or not perfect enough.

That's a shame, we've not always seen eye to eye but i consider you a GOOD poster.

Nature of the beats isn't it? TBF I don't think the MODs get it too bad on here to be honest, i've seen a lot worse. But it is a frustrating job.

 

[dasNdanger]

It's an incredibly thankless job doing this as a volunteer, I' leaving in two weeks and frankly I'm shocked none of the staff are following me(as of yet), seems every course of action we take on here is wrong according to the membership or not perfect enough.

I was a mod on a couple of forums, including Marvel comics (their website forum). Modding is VERY hard, and can be very stressful. Sometimes the best thing to do is just rotate amongst the mods - not sure how many are here right now, but if a couple can take one week on, one week off, rotating with one or more teams of two, then it's not an everyday stress. Some sort of arrangement like that can lessen the pressure a bit.

Another thing you can try is assigning specific jobs, depending on what everyone's good at. If one is a good organizer, he can makes sure threads are in the right forums. If one or two are good referees, they can focus on keeping discussions civil. and so on and so forth.

Also - and this I'm saying from vast modding experience - it's best for moderators to stay out of heated debates as a mod may actually be responsible for escalating a situation. When you see things getting hot, step in and ask people to calm it down without taking sides. Being neutral is often the hardest thing for a moderator to do. I also found it best to warn a person of their conduct in private PM instead of in the thread because once you make it public everyone starts jumping in and taking sides. Sometimes it's best to publicly ignore an offense because it's more likely to be quickly forgot rather than be blown into a huge board meltdown. If a post has received a lot of complaints, warn the person in private, then comment publicly that the situation has been dealt with, and if necessary close the thread.

It really helps to keep board issues under control, and keeps tempers at bay. Doesn't work all the time, but it is helpful most of the time.


das

 

[psychic duck]

I was a mod on a couple of forums, including Marvel comics (their website forum). Modding is VERY hard, and can be very stressful. Sometimes the best thing to do is just rotate amongst the mods - not sure how many are here right now, but if a couple can take one week on, one week off, rotating with one or more teams of two, then it's not an everyday stress. Some sort of arrangement like that can lessen the pressure a bit.

Another thing you can try is assigning specific jobs, depending on what everyone's good at. If one is a good organizer, he can makes sure threads are in the right forums. If one or two are good referees, they can focus on keeping discussions civil. and so on and so forth.

Also - and this I'm saying from vast modding experience - it's best for moderators to stay out of heated debates as a mod may actually be responsible for escalating a situation. When you see things getting hot, step in and ask people to calm it down without taking sides. Being neutral is often the hardest thing for a moderator to do. I also found it best to warn a person of their conduct in private PM instead of in the thread because once you make it public everyone starts jumping in and taking sides. Sometimes it's best to publicly ignore an offense because it's more likely to be quickly forgot rather than be blown into a huge board meltdown. If a post has received a lot of complaints, warn the person in private, then comment publicly that the situation has been dealt with, and if necessary close the thread.

It really helps to keep board issues under control, and keeps tempers at bay. Doesn't work all the time, but it is helpful most of the time.


das

The mods here do a good job. There's others around where they just start enjoying the sense of control and start bossing people about too much.

 

[goodNumber10]

The mods here do a good job. There's others around where they just start enjoying the sense of control and start bossing people about too much.

I think when they agree with my point of view they do an excellent job, other wise they are just a bigger part of the same problem

 

[dasNdanger]

The mods here do a good job. There's others around where they just start enjoying the sense of control and start bossing people about too much.

yes, they do. I was just offering suggestions how they can make their jobs a bit less stressful, based on my experience as a mod in the past.




das

 

[Saints1]

This forum is extremely lenient with the moderation. And as one of the men who has more or less set the policy for ten years, I am extremely proud of that fact.

I am positively raging at Big Ewis' approach here. We make decisions as a team, and we all agreed that lines had been crossed. I have been in this game for a long time, I know that there are a significant proportion of people who would find what he said offensive. I make no apologies for saying "ban him" and I am so, so tempted to make it permanent.

To come back with another account and start throwing accusations around is incredibly disingenuous. It is also flagrant abuse of forum rules. I have stood up for Ewis a lot in the past but consider my hands washed now after this cretinous behaviour.

I have tried to cultivate a forum where you only see staff being staff when they need to and I believe that I have done a good job of that. This is not a one moderator agenda or any kind of agenda for that matter. A racist comment is going to receive a ban no matter how "light hearted" it is.

 

[goodNumber10]

what i would say is anyone who doesn't like the light touch approach from the mods here should have a look at something like planet rugby - the place is a cesspool of trolling and abuse.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Some people like that though - it's not objectively bad.

I'm a member of a couple of forums like that, it's just not for everyone.

 

[psychic duck]

what i would say is anyone who doesn't like the light touch approach from the mods here should have a look at something like planet rugby - the place is a cesspool of trolling and abuse.

Planet Rugby looks to be full of ****wits with little interest of actually talking rugby.

 

[goodNumber10]

Some people like that though - it's not objectively bad.

I'm a member of a couple of forums like that, it's just not for everyone.

agreed, it was more that i was trying to illustrate how different the forum could be...