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The Ulster Thread

My views are this.
You can't put a limit on positions. Like Ulster should be allowed retain Ruan if he is there undoubted starter. Like us. We should've been allowed splash out on a top THP as it keeps us competitive.
But with Leinster with 9 if it blocks another province who need a starting 9 then they shouldn't have an NIQ 9.
My views are an NIQ should only be signed if they're a serious 23 option. And all squad guys should be IQ.
 
Groundhog said:
at the same time we've brought in a total journeyman in Andress only because he's Irish qualified. He'll never step near an Irish squad, so how is his acquisition any less harmful than an NIQ signing?
Click to expand...
Nail on head.

There's a strong argument that an inferior scrum half could harm the progression of Paddy Jackson and Ulster's outstanding production line of centres and outside backs too. What are Ulster's options? Peter Stringer will hardly help the national team. James Hart has just signed for Racing Metro. Is John Cooney international class? Perhaps, as suggested above, Niall Saunders could be targeted but he's signed a 2 year deal with Harlequins, he's very callow and would need experience to guide him along. The ideal man to help guide a young player along is the guy the IRFU deem surplus to requirements.

Not singling anyone out but supporters of every province can point out passengers in their squad who only have contracts because they're Irish or qualified to play for Ireland. I have no issue with the number of quality NIQ players at provinces increasing if the payoff is to cut out players who'll never be international class. They're the guys who are blocking game time for up and coming talent, not the Ruan Pienaar's of this world.

I'm all for Irish rugby being more self sufficient. If there's a bunch of talented players in the same position at one province, given Ireland's small player pool, a player should be encouraged to move to another province for game time. For example Leinster are chock-full of quality loosehead props, a spot where Ulster are weak. Sam Arnold took the opportunity of more game time and moved to Munster who need centres. I don't see the same strength in depth at 9. All provinces are short of quality in that area.
 
All of this is beating around the real problem in the IRFU's remit.

The gulf from AIL to Pro12 is too large.

A better AIL means a much larger pool of players developing at a reasonable standard - rather than the provinces having to commit to kids through the academies then throwing any questionable or slow developers on the scrap heap.
 
Question I don't know much about the AIL but is it an actual feeder system or something else?

The fact that a team is only allowed 2 pro players seem to suggest it isn't.

Wouldn't Ireland benefit more with a smaller league say 10/12 teams 3 for each province or something containing the best players from the AIL, fringe players form the Pro 12 teams and project SH players.

I mean i would love England to change it's feeder setup to something like
July - August = U18 academy rugby league (Would allow them to concentrate on School and exams and then rugby when exams finish and gives the clubs a chance to move up the better players for Senior preseason.
During the regular season = A league of 14 clubs with Fringe senior players and 18-20 Senior academy players with a handful of lower league players and the better U18 players.

But don't know if that could work in Ireland.
 
Tigs Man said:
Question I don't know much about the AIL but is it an actual feeder system or something else?
Click to expand...

Its the All-Ireland League.

Basically the top step of the (internal) domestic competition.



Tigs Man said:
Wouldn't Ireland benefit more with a smaller league say 10/12 teams 3 for each province or something containing the best players from the AIL, fringe players form the Pro 12 teams and project SH players.
Click to expand...

I've argued for this for some time, although somewhat differently.

I'd abolish the AIL. Have a "franchise league" of 10/12 teams, no promotion or relegation for financial stability. League is pro/semi-pro and augments the provinces.

The league *could* be formed from some of the larger AIL clubs (with consideration for location too) in areas where there are no close rival teams of similar stature as long as there is a support base to support it. The others would have to be standalone entities - perhaps fed by and moving around the grounds of the old AIL clubs in their geographic region - but this comes with the obvious problem of no tradition - we can see what problems this has caused in Wales with the regions.

The other AIL teams drop back into the branch leagues and are amateur/semi-pro in basis as currently.



Of course, the problem is most of the existing AIL clubs would absolutely hate it, even if it were better for the game as a whole.
 
With all the talk about Piatau adding to an already good backline, it's great to see Ulster giving game time to Lyttle and Stockdale.

Stockdale looked excellent in the U20 world cup and from what I've seen of Lyttle so far, he looks electric.

Trimble and Bowe could be looking over their shoulders before too long ...
 
Thought Stockdale had a few pretty bad moments in the first half but his talent is undeniable. Lyttle looks great. Really classy finish for his second try. Better teams than the Dragons will punish Ulster for their passive defence too. Gilroy took himself out with a horribly executed tackle and that Herron kid can't tackle worth a damn and his defensive positioning is way off.
 
I didn't see the game, so I can't really comment, but Herring's surely been signed as a reserve and no more. I'm surprised to see him pitched-in so early TBH.

Also - if you're wondering why I'm commenting in the Ulster thread, my girlfriend is from Lisburn and I actually went to more Ulster games than I did Quins games last year, so I'm a kind of honorary fan ...
 
I have zero ties to Ulster whatsoever. The Ulster fan base have been very accepting of me as a cuckoo in their midst.

Oh and Herron, not Herring :p

The thing to remember is that the guys who toured from Ireland pretty much always miss the first few games of the season. Throw in that and injuries, and that's why the kids are getting their chance.

I thought Kane looked solid and Herron did well considering the difficulty of his task and the leap he's just made. His defence was fine against Saints, he's never played at this sort of intensity before. Stockdale's an interesting one, made a few poor calls and clearly doesn't have the step he might like but he's growing into his potential. You can see why he's more widely seen as a 13 though and I think he'll end up there or at 15.

Lyttle looks scary accomplished. Its a bit like when Gilroy burst onto the scene but with better rugby IQ and kicking. Don't want to pile too much pressure onto the kid, it could all get unstuck yet. Given the age of Bowe and Trimble its a relief to see them on the rise although I suspect the oldies will hang on another season or two.


Finally - I completely agree that with sufficient buy in the proposed Irish feeder league to replace the top tier of the AIL would be the way to go. Only quibble I'd have with Amiga's words is that from where I'm sitting, I think the talent would be better concentrated in 8 teams. Also, geographic spread while keeping academy players in would be a *****.

My guess is we'll end up with the compromise where the A teams have big calenders instead. Playing every other province home and away as well as the group stages of the B&I Cup give 12 fixtures, think the next step might be to play every other province home and away again to bring it up to 18.
 
Amiga500 said:
All of this is beating around the real problem in the IRFU's remit.

The gulf from AIL to Pro12 is too large.

A better AIL means a much larger pool of players developing at a reasonable standard - rather than the provinces having to commit to kids through the academies then throwing any questionable or slow developers on the scrap heap.
Click to expand...

Your 100% right but politics interfere too much. Lads learn more playing in an AIL style environment than all this academy style way in my eyes. And that's coming from someone who sees the academy from the inside.
 
Two new signings for next year announced today:

John Cooney
http://ulsterrugby.com/news/15647.php#.WHzKoJ2UfmE

Arno Botha
http://ulsterrugby.com/news/15645.php#.WHzKN52UfmF


Botha has had a few big knee injuries in the recent past, so hopefully he can stay healthy. He'll be a big 6/8 option, one we badly need.
It is also expected Franco Van Der Merwe is off to Cardiff for next season, his form this year has been so-so, thus don't see it being a big impact. I suppose this means Henderson will go into "the row", but I'd rather see the following 4-8

4. Browne
5. O'Connor (or Treadwell)
6. Henderson
7. Reidy
8. Botha


John Cooney has probably the biggest boots for any summer signing to have to fill, at least in Ireland if not the hemisphere.
 
Amiga500 said:
Two new signings for next year announced today:

John Cooney
http://ulsterrugby.com/news/15647.php#.WHzKoJ2UfmE

Arno Botha
http://ulsterrugby.com/news/15645.php#.WHzKN52UfmF


Botha has had a few big knee injuries in the recent past, so hopefully he can stay healthy. He'll be a big 6/8 option, one we badly need.
It is also expected Franco Van Der Merwe is off to Cardiff for next season, his form this year has been so-so, thus don't see it being a big impact. I suppose this means Henderson will go into "the row", but I'd rather see the following 4-8

4. Browne
5. O'Connor (or Treadwell)
6. Henderson
7. Reidy
8. Botha


John Cooney has probably the biggest boots for any summer signing to have to fill, at least in Ireland if not the hemisphere.
Click to expand...

Dont forget Coetzee! Henderson, Coetzee, Botha in the back row would be rather nice.

Another forward to be signed in the next few weeks, any ideas?
 
UlsterRugby2012 said:
Dont forget Coetzee! Henderson, Coetzee, Botha in the back row would be rather nice.

Another forward to be signed in the next few weeks, any ideas?
Click to expand...

I'd say it's an IQ lock.
Think you'll see Henderson permanently in 2nd row now and Cooney should do well up there
 
Was anyone else impressed by the young scrumhalf for Ulster yesterday? But of investment in him could do nicely for the province.
 
Gavin said:
Was anyone else impressed by the young scrumhalf for Ulster yesterday? But of investment in him could do nicely for the province.
Click to expand...

Pity they hadn't started that months ago. Might not have had to get rid of Pienaar if they'd showed some nous in developing a young 9 under his tutelage.
 
Amiga500 said:
Pity they hadn't started that months ago. Might not have had to get rid of Pienaar if they'd showed some nous in developing a young 9 under his tutelage.
Click to expand...

Aniga I think issue more they much higher hopes for Marshall but as time went on it was shown he's just good in last 10mins upping tempo
 
Wee P is the same age as Pienaar. No amount of high hopes would make him Pienaar's successor unless they involve a time machine. The only real defence of Ulster's record with young scrum-halves is most of them have struggled to look better than Wee P. Which is a pretty good one to be fair. Here's hoping Shanahan and Cooney offer something next year and that rumours of the impending messiah-hood of Stewart and O'Donnell are true.

Hope they're looking at a prop for the last NIQ slot. Big ball carrying loosehead for preference.
 

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