The Sharks Thread

[Draggs]

Yeah, Daniel had a pretty good match at eight this season, if I remember rightly.
Can't wait for Daniel/Deysel/Kanko again!

 

[Seaton]

Unforunately I don't have much hope of the Sharks XV beating the Pampas XV, who imo have been in a class of their own this year, and could have knocked over one or two of the weaker S15 franchises. Their handling at times is sublime, unpredictable and at times unstoppable

Note: If the Sharks do manage to beat the Pampas, and the Bulls beat the Griquas, will we get the home final. I mean we did beat them in the league phase.
I can't believe I actually want the Bulls to win their semi... I just need to convince myself that it is purely so we can thrash them again!

 

[JJR]

XV have the pack to disrupt Pampas' game. Despite losing bresler, mostert and Coetzee. Sharks XV have great hunger and desire and it will take them to victory once again today.

Regarding Sharks looseforwards. Deysel and Alberts are in my opinion the 2 most influencial looseforwards The Sharks have ever had. Sharks just need to go hunting Brussow's signature when his contract expires this year. We still lack a full out fetcher. Sharks Forever!

 

[JJR]

South Africa U20 Squad & Team Management:
Backs:
Craig Barry (Western Province)
Ulrich Beyers (Blue Bulls)
Johan Goosen (Free State)
Paul Jordaan (KwaZulu-Natal)
Tshotsho Mbovane (Western Province)
Wandile Mjekevu (Golden Lions)
Pieter Rademan (Free State)
Courtnall Skosan (Blue Bulls)
Jaco Taute (Golden Lions)
Francois Venter (Blue Bulls)
Johan Welthagen (Leopards)
Forwards:
Arno Botha (Blue Bulls) – captain
Nizaam Carr (Western Province)
Jean Cook (Free State)
Cornell du Preez (Leopards)
Eben Etzebeth (Western Province)
John Roy Jenkinson (Leopards)
Siyamthanda Kolisi (Western Province)
Stephan Kotze (Free State)
Francois Kleinhans (KwaZulu-Natal)
Mbongeni Mbonambi (Blue Bulls)
Nic Schonert (KwaZulu-Natal)
Juan Schoeman (Blue Bulls)
Michael van Vuuren (Free State)
Ruan Venter (Golden Lions)
Team Management:
Dawie Theron (Head coach)
Eric Sauls (Assistant coach)
Pine Pienaar (Assistant coach)
Willem Oliphant (Team Manager)
Yusuf Jackson (Media & PR Manager)
Dr Arthur Williams (Team Doctor)
Aneurin Robyn (Physiotherapist)
Graham Bentz (Conditioning coach)
Important dates:
Final training camp: Monday 9 May – Friday 20 May 2011, Jeffreys Bay
Pre-departure camp: Monday 30 May – Saturday 4 June, Johannesburg
Squad departs: Johannesburg for Italy on Saturday 4 June
IRB World Junior Championship: Friday 10 June – Sunday 26 June
South Africa U20 Pool C matches at the IRB Junior World Championship:
Friday 10 June 2011 – SA v Scotland in Padova at 20h10
Tuesday 14 June 2011 – SA v Ireland in Treviso at 20h10
Saturday 18 June 2011 – SA v England in Padova at 20h10

Take my word for it; this is a seriously talented and Physically Huge u/20 side; So many talented Looseforwards and Backs.

 

[Seaton]

Johan Goosen is a player that has impressed me every time I have seen him play.

As for the on-going Pampas game, the Pampas are making silly infringements, and when they have done this this season, they 'only' ended up winning those games by slight margins, but to be fair the ref is making a few kak decisions of his own
Sharks are winning 10-7

Oh my word, this ref hasn't got a clue...
Apparently you are not allowed to run up after a minute to put pressure on the conversion kicker...
Holy crap this is bad, we set up a maul, it collapses because the Pampas players fell under the pressure, the maul collapses and we are penalised for falling.

 

[JJR]

Hope Kleinhans' ankle is not too bad; need him for the U/20 World Cup. Hopefully only out for a couple of weeks.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Johan Goosen, is he the player who scored a penalty from 75 metres out? He plays for the Cheetahs right? I remember running into his name a couple of times when I edited the Vodacom Cup 2011 Wikipedia page to add the scorers

 

[Draggs]

Johan Goosen, is he the player who scored a penalty from 75 metres out? He plays for the Cheetahs right? I remember running into his name a couple of times when I edited the Vodacom Cup 2011 Wikipedia page to add the scorers

Indeed he is.
He was also banned for taking an illegal substance. Unknowingly from what I have read, but still not the best start for a young lad.

I hear Paul Jordaan is one for the future, what is his position?

 

[JJR]

Indeed he is.
He was also banned for taking an illegal substance. Unknowingly from what I have read, but still not the best start for a young lad.

I hear Paul Jordaan is one for the future, what is his position?

Goosen got banned for the same substance as Chiiliboy and Basson for the Springboks. Present in Nasal sprays, it is a caffiene like stimulant. Just got unlucky, substance has only recently been specified.

Paul Jordaan is a Centre. Best u/20 player The Sharks could have signed, very happy we have. He weighs around 91kg and is 1.80m tall. He is the fastest player in the SA Sevens squad. He has a great step and he already bench presses around 170kg, as i am told. He recently turned 19 and will still be u/20 next year.

 

[nickdnz]

Goosen got banned for the same substance as Chiiliboy and Basson for the Springboks. Present in Nasal sprays, it is a caffiene like stimulant. Just got unlucky, substance has only recently been specified.

Paul Jordaan is a Centre. Best u/20 player The Sharks could have signed, very happy we have. He weighs around 91kg and is 1.80m tall. He is the fastest player in the SA Sevens squad. He has a great step and he already bench presses around 170kg, as i am told. He recently turned 19 and will still be u/20 next year.

That's crazy. Don't know if I believe it.

 

[ranger]

South Africa U20 Squad & Team Management:
Backs:
Craig Barry (Western Province)
Ulrich Beyers (Blue Bulls)
Johan Goosen (Free State)
Paul Jordaan (KwaZulu-Natal)
Tshotsho Mbovane (Western Province)
Wandile Mjekevu (Golden Lions)
Pieter Rademan (Free State)
Courtnall Skosan (Blue Bulls)
Jaco Taute (Golden Lions)
Francois Venter (Blue Bulls)
Johan Welthagen (Leopards)
Forwards:
Arno Botha (Blue Bulls) – captain
Nizaam Carr (Western Province)
Jean Cook (Free State)
Cornell du Preez (Leopards)
Eben Etzebeth (Western Province)
John Roy Jenkinson (Leopards)
Siyamthanda Kolisi (Western Province)
Stephan Kotze (Free State)
Francois Kleinhans (KwaZulu-Natal)
Mbongeni Mbonambi (Blue Bulls)
Nic Schonert (KwaZulu-Natal)
Juan Schoeman (Blue Bulls)
Michael van Vuuren (Free State)
Ruan Venter (Golden Lions)
Team Management:
Dawie Theron (Head coach)
Eric Sauls (Assistant coach)
Pine Pienaar (Assistant coach)
Willem Oliphant (Team Manager)
Yusuf Jackson (Media & PR Manager)
Dr Arthur Williams (Team Doctor)
Aneurin Robyn (Physiotherapist)
Graham Bentz (Conditioning coach)
Important dates:
Final training camp: Monday 9 May – Friday 20 May 2011, Jeffreys Bay
Pre-departure camp: Monday 30 May – Saturday 4 June, Johannesburg
Squad departs: Johannesburg for Italy on Saturday 4 June
IRB World Junior Championship: Friday 10 June – Sunday 26 June
South Africa U20 Pool C matches at the IRB Junior World Championship:
Friday 10 June 2011 – SA v Scotland in Padova at 20h10
Tuesday 14 June 2011 – SA v Ireland in Treviso at 20h10
Saturday 18 June 2011 – SA v England in Padova at 20h10

Take my word for it; this is a seriously talented and Physically Huge u/20 side; So many talented Looseforwards and Backs.

Is this "bigger is better" emphasis a nationwide philosphy in South Africa or is it just you

 

[JJR]

Is this "bigger is better" emphasis a nationwide philosphy in South Africa or is it just you

Last u/20 world cup we went for talent over size and got dominated physically. Our exiting SA Sevens backs got some really bad ball from the forwards. Thsi time with new coach we are hoping to up the physicality and give x-factor players like Paul Jordaan and Mbovane some good ball. There are big guys, but there are also smaller faster guys to give balance to the squad. The main thing is most of the guys are big and fast especially in the loose trio; have seen a couple of them play Vodacom cup rugby and most of them are 8th men with good pace.

The last u/20 world cup was bad, our centres were bigger than our loose forwards, didn't choose the right players. Marcell Coetzee who made his Debut for The Sharks last night did not even make the squad somehow. 109kg and has pace to burn; just shows the amount of talented and well conditioned loose forwards the u/20 selectors had to choose from.

In SA we say when we have two players of similar quality, the bigger one is always selected; Jake White stood by that and we won the World Cup; P.Divvy also loves having a big side, it is just how rugby works here in South Africa, the Culture is always for bigger is better, it is part of the South African rugby mentality, will never change. Especially when it comes to the forwards. Gaining size does not always mean you lose your pace and mobility. Pierre Spies was one of the slowest guys in High School, and then he started training very hard gaining weight and muscle and suddenly he was considered as a possible winger. Bigger, better, faster.

 

[JJR]

That's crazy. Don't know if I believe it.

I could not believe it myself; but one of his friends kept calling him a freak and i asked why; and he said at 18 he was benching 160kg and he told me he has gone up around 10 kg since he has been training with The SA Sevens squad. Johann Sadie and Paul Jordaan will be a future springbok centre pairing; seriously talented and both have that x-factor which SA seem to lack sometimes.

 

[ranger]

Last u/20 world cup we went for talent over size and got dominated physically. Our exiting SA Sevens backs got some really bad ball from the forwards. Thsi time with new coach we are hoping to up the physicality and give x-factor players like Paul Jordaan and Mbovane some good ball. There are big guys, but there are also smaller faster guys to give balance to the squad. The main thing is most of the guys are big and fast especially in the loose trio; have seen a couple of them play Vodacom cup rugby and most of them are 8th men with good pace.

The last u/20 world cup was bad, our centres were bigger than our loose forwards, didn't choose the right players. Marcell Coetzee who made his Debut for The Sharks last night did not even make the squad somehow. 109kg and has pace to burn; just shows the amount of talented and well conditioned loose forwards the u/20 selectors had to choose from.

In SA we say when we have two players of similar quality, the bigger one is always selected; Jake White stood by that and we won the World Cup; P.Divvy also loves having a big side, it is just how rugby works here in South Africa, the Culture is always for bigger is better, it is part of the South African rugby mentality, will never change. Especially when it comes to the forwards. Gaining size does not always mean you lose your pace and mobility. Pierre Spies was one of the slowest guys in High School, and then he started training very hard gaining weight and muscle and suddenly he was considered as a possible winger. Bigger, better, faster.

From reading this it would appear that the only two attributes a rugby player has is size and speed.. Surely you just pick the best players regardless of size or speed?
The biggest, fastest player around would get shown up by a smarter, more skillfull and technically proficent player any day.
A perfect example would be Berny Hall who played 7 for the 2009 NZ Under 20 side; He would be lucky to make it to 6 foot, weighed a shade under 90kg and didn't really offer much as far as pace goes. What he did have however was an incredible ability to read the game, he outplayed every opposite number he came up against and was voted NZs best forward. Would you not pick him?

 

[JJR]

From reading this it would appear that the only two attributes a rugby player has is size and speed.. Surely you just pick the best players regardless of size or speed?
The biggest, fastest player around would get shown up by a smarter, more skillfull and technically proficent player any day.
A perfect example would be Berny Hall who played 7 for the 2009 NZ Under 20 side; He would be lucky to make it to 6 foot, weighed a shade under 90kg and didn't really offer much as far as pace goes. What he did have however was an incredible ability to read the game, he outplayed every opposite number he came up against and was voted NZs best forward. Would you not pick him?

There is a lot of talent in SA, many have similar talents and skills; size and speed is often a determning factor in selection, especially at u/20 level.

Yes, i would, he is an openside, does not matter how big he is as long as he is the best fetcher and is well conditioned for his frame and body type.
i am reffering to size based on position and also skills required for position. Eg. At Blindside you would want the bigger ball carrier to get you over the advantage line. At 10, obviously the better playmaker and tactical kicker will be selected; unless defence in that channel becomes a problem, then getting a bigger 10 might be a option.

The 2 fetchers selected for the SA u/20 side are 93kg and 96kg; but both are as well conditioned as they can be at this stage; a lot is about being the best you can be. Eg. Conrad Smith...he can't tell me he can't gain anymore muscle, whereas a guy like Hosea Gear is in his peak physical condition for his frame and position. Eg. i don't always mean Big is terms of weight; but big when looking at BMI and the frame of the person, must have low body fat, etc. Eg a guy that is 1.70 and weighs 85kg at centre, is a big guy...for his frame.
In Conclusion, my comment that the side is Huge is that each individual has good position specific BMI and has good muscle mass/Frame correlation.
I think i am confusing myself. Ha Ha.

 

[JJR]

Clermont are playing Biaritz in top 14 semi on Friday. Joubert should be staring; but i hope Clermont lose so that Joubert can join The Sharks squad. Plum admits that he will have a lot of pressure on him to select Jacobs to play after his game changing performances off the bench. I personally feel that we need to estaclish a combination of Joubert/jacobs as soon as possible. 12.Joubert 13. Jacobs. Stef needs to get dropped out of the 22 and Bosman can cover off the bench for 12 and 10. Happy to see M.Coetzee and Bresler do well coming off the bench; the future looks bright indeed.

 

[ranger]

There is a lot of talent in SA, many have similar talents and skills; size and speed is often a determning factor in selection, especially at u/20 level.

Yes, i would, he is an openside, does not matter how big he is as long as he is the best fetcher and is well conditioned for his frame and body type.
i am reffering to size based on position and also skills required for position. Eg. At Blindside you would want the bigger ball carrier to get you over the advantage line. At 10, obviously the better playmaker and tactical kicker will be selected; unless defence in that channel becomes a problem, then getting a bigger 10 might be a option.

The 2 fetchers selected for the SA u/20 side are 93kg and 96kg; but both are as well conditioned as they can be at this stage; a lot is about being the best you can be. Eg. Conrad Smith...he can't tell me he can't gain anymore muscle, whereas a guy like Hosea Gear is in his peak physical condition for his frame and position. Eg. i don't always mean Big is terms of weight; but big when looking at BMI and the frame of the person, must have low body fat, etc. Eg a guy that is 1.70 and weighs 85kg at centre, is a big guy...for his frame.
In Conclusion, my comment that the side is Huge is that each individual has good position specific BMI and has good muscle mass/Frame correlation.
I think i am confusing myself. Ha Ha.

The thing is, you are quite right i can't tell you that Conrad Smith cant gain anymore muscle. But in the same time, you can't tell me that he needs to gain any more. Look at how effective he is at his current size, does he really need to be any bigger if hes playing so well now?
I don't see the point of just getting bigger for the sake of it, its not guaranteed to make you a better player. Look at Luke McAllister, he has stacked the muscle on (which he should according to your philosophy seen as he is an inside centre) and it has just made him slower and a worse player.

Come U20 world cup time, you will probably laugh hysterically at the NZ team. There is a very real chance that we will play a 6'2, 105kg kid at lock and a 6'1 under 100kg guy at blindside flanker. If that side manages to best South Africa i hope it will change your mind on things somewhat!

 

[JJR]

The thing is, you are quite right i can't tell you that Conrad Smith cant gain anymore muscle. But in the same time, you can't tell me that he needs to gain any more. Look at how effective he is at his current size, does he really need to be any bigger if hes playing so well now?
I don't see the point of just getting bigger for the sake of it, its not guaranteed to make you a better player. Look at Luke McAllister, he has stacked the muscle on (which he should according to your philosophy seen as he is an inside centre) and it has just made him slower and a worse player.

Come U20 world cup time, you will probably laugh hysterically at the NZ team. There is a very real chance that we will play a 6'2, 105kg kid at lock and a 6'1 under 100kg guy at blindside flanker. If that side manages to best South Africa i hope it will change your mind on things somewhat!

Agree with most of that; my take is that if gaining muscle will improve your game or make you better; then do so. Yes, Luke is too big; if he can get really cut and lose around 3-4kg he could possible be mobile enough for 13. His BMI is too high, he needs to get it to around 28. His BMI is currently 29.3, which is a bit high considering what attributes he needs to improve; and one is def. speed. A lot also depends on the individual which conditioning coaches know about. Eg. Adi Jacobs is a bit shorter than Luke; but is about same weight and has a 30 BMI; but it has not made him any slower though; it has made him more effective at beraking the first line of defence when he runs at a gap. There is too much Scince in this too explain it well; but all in all i believe being the best you can be is what must be aimed for; which again the conditioning coaches have lots of data to work with and understand how much weight a player needs to gain or lose. Eg. A guy like Jean De Villiers is around 1.90m and 103kg,his BMI is 28, but his wide frame can allow him to gain more muscle which i believe will make him even better at crash ball, without impacting his speed too much. He needs to lower his centre of gravity a bit in my opinion, Jaque fourie is also a bot top heavy, the leg drive is not always great from both of them; but then again i don't have the Data to say weather they should gain more muscle in order to make them more effective; that is why i am looking to study some Sport Science after i have finished my current degree, would be very cool to help someone improve themselves as a professional athlete.

 

[JJR]

Sharks V Bulls coming up this weekend. Gonna Be Huge!!! Hope Jacobs gets a Start. M. Joubert played very well for Clermont in their QF Top 14. Unfortunately for Sharks they won, which means Joubert's debut for Sharks will be delayed by at least another week.

SA Sevens also playing again this weekend in London Sevens, be on the lookout for young Shark Sbura Sithole. Another young Shark, Paul Jordaan did not make the squad as he has been selected for the SA U/20 World Cup squad.

According to Plum, Alberts is struggling with some knocks and ****les, hopefully the Bye has given him time to fully recover. Jacques Botes will be back to take the place of Daniel who has been suspended. Kankowski does not look like he will be available for selection just yet. Cheek Fracture still needs more time. This means Coetzee will have another chance to impress off the Bench. Incredible that he has not been selected for SA U/20 squad; he was the front runner for the number 8 position and then suddenly left out; strange dicision.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Hard game to predict, both teams have had their ups and downs this season.