The REAL story...why the AB's lost!

[smartcooky]

also the forwards "picked and go'ed" outwards rather than inwards for the set up of the drop goal. But yes the illegal play went "unnoticed" [/b]

Yep. 'Cos the inside channels were shut down by the French, who had as much understanding of the term "hindmost foot" as did Blind-Pew and his two mates running the touch.

 

[nam97]

But what about GG's view on AB generals over the years? Put it another way - are NZ fans content to think that Carter would have done the job if he'd been fit? And is that good enough for next time round?

<div class='quotemain'>And the French tries weren't brillant. One was a foward pass, and the other was a simple overlap which any decent team worth their salt should score when facing a team with a man in the bin. McAlister's try was much better (Jauzion is still his ***** no matter the result) [/b]

Forward pass is debatable - marginal in my view, given Traille was stopped in his tracks as he offloaded - but the first try must have been the first time in years the ABs were ripped apart and left strewn all over the field from one touchline to the other. Some credit to your opponents please, Mr Bok lover.
[/b][/quote]

Marginal lol, **** off.

 

[Prestwick]

I have to agree, while Michalak's run was superb, the actual pass which sparked the break was forward or at the very least lateral. But that flags up another flaw in the All Blacks, this time one of Naïveté. When Traille made the pass to Michalak, you noticed a certain slacking in the All Blacks who expected Wayne Barnes to blow for a forward pass. By the time they realised Barnes wasn't going to blow it was too late and Michalak was away. In Rugby, great teams play around how the referee is playing and adjust to how he sees the game. The All Blacks didn't do that and that inflexibility contributed to their defeat.

 

[Shimano]

No matter how you look at it, the pass was forward, by plenty. In NZ we had heard that Barnes was a real stickler when it come to knock ons and forward passes, but when the heat came on, he melted like a chocolate soldier. That second half was undoubtedly the worst performance by a referee in a major match since Jim "Mr Pedantic" Fleming retired.

Mr Barnes is in a for a very "warm" welcome from NZ rugby fans the first time he refs here. We have long memories and we are unforgiving of those who shaft us.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Why is it conveniently forgotten that there was a missed forward pass in the build up to one of New Zealand's trys? The referee did not "shaft" the All Blacks, he simply made a mistake. The touch judge has to take his fair share of the blame, as he was even closer to the incident.

Reverting to a gameplan which didn't suit them and having no player with the nouse to know when to slot over a drop goal is what cost New Zealand, not one split second decision in 80 minutes of rugby.

 

[Prestwick]

That second half was undoubtedly the worst performance by a referee in a major match since Jim "Mr Pedantic" Fleming retired. [/b]

Utter crap, I can point to at least twenty different performances by Steve Walsh, each of them as awful as the other. The guy spends roughly 40 minutes of the match checking his hairdo and prancing around like a fairy.

 

[nam97]

<div class='quotemain'> That second half was undoubtedly the worst performance by a referee in a major match since Jim "Mr Pedantic" Fleming retired. [/b]

Utter crap, I can point to at least twenty different performances by Steve Walsh, each of them as awful as the other. The guy spends roughly 40 minutes of the match checking his hairdo and prancing around like a fairy.
[/b][/quote]

Lol, absolutely right Prestwick. But we all know Fleming was just plain Scheiße.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Why is it conveniently forgotten that there was a missed forward pass in the build up to one of New Zealand's trys? The referee did not "shaft" the All Blacks, he simply made a mistake. The touch judge has to take his fair share of the blame, as he was even closer to the incident.

Reverting to a gameplan which didn't suit them and having no player with the nouse to know when to slot over a drop goal is what cost New Zealand, not one split second decision in 80 minutes of rugby. [/b]

Which forward pass? I have heard people say that the pass to MacAlister was forward. So how do we judge from the video footage whether a pass if forward? We look at the field lines going across field and see if the ball travel is more than parallel with a line going across. On the video the pass that put MacAlister into the gap was parallel with the 22 metre line which in effect is a line ball. The reason why people mistakenly think it is forward is because Yauzion had moved a half metre ahead of Carter (or whoever it was who was about to give the ball to MacAlister) in anticipation of a long pass. Yauzion was correctly anticipating to either drift wide and take out MacAlister or even better go for the intercept. It is here where we see MacAlister sense what Jauzion is up to and capitalises on the fact that Jauzion eyes are on the ball waiting for the pass in order to get an intercept rather than keeping an eye on MacAlister. MacAlister bounces back infield with his acceleration and takes the short ball, Yauzion whose eyes are not on MacAlister but on the ball expecting a long pass is caught off guard and too late sees MacAlister cut inside his right shoulder through the gap. For viewers the illusion of a forward pass is simply because Yauzion has stepped slightly forward (umbrella defence) and because MacAlister timed his run perfectly to recieve a flat ball which is the hardest pass to run on to.



The drop goal scenario? NZ did not go for a drop goal because their dumb forwards were taking the blindside every time rather than try the openside. They were on the right side of the paddock but not in the drop goal position. Their game plan in the French 22 was not copy book at all. I mean...what is MacAlister doing at halfback throwing a hard pass into Soioalo's head as they try and take the blind? Where was Leonard? Was MacAlister trying to be tricky and miss out Soioala to get Sivivatu to go in the corner? Why was NZ panicking and trying to be tricky in the first place when copybook rugby (see England) would have had the correct players grinding out the hard yards and getting a penalty or a forwards try?



Where was the AB's direction coming from? Did they have any direction? Was anybody directing them?



The scoreboard tells the story.

 

[candybum]

Why was NZ panicking and trying to be tricky in the first place when copybook rugby (see England) would have had the correct players grinding out the hard yards and getting a penalty or a forwards try?
[/b]

LOL, NZ were never gonna be awarded a penalty under wayne "da marnus" barnes lol it was his scheme

 

[Gay-Guy]

<div class='quotemain'>

Why was NZ panicking and trying to be tricky in the first place when copybook rugby (see England) would have had the correct players grinding out the hard yards and getting a penalty or a forwards try?
[/b]

LOL, NZ were never gonna be awarded a penalty under wayne "da marnus" barnes lol it was his scheme


[/b][/quote]

That's cos the NZ team didn't have anyone screaming "offside" everytime a kiwi did a pick and go...gee the French could afford to push the offside line on the blindside away from Barney's eyes cos they probably knew the touchie wasn't calling it as well as the fact that they knew MacAlister had a slim chance of kicking a penalty from the blindside. NZ should have gone at the fringes on the open right in front of the ref to see the offside.

 

[Dmx#1]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>

Why was NZ panicking and trying to be tricky in the first place when copybook rugby (see England) would have had the correct players grinding out the hard yards and getting a penalty or a forwards try?
[/b]

LOL, NZ were never gonna be awarded a penalty under wayne "da marnus" barnes lol it was his scheme


[/b][/quote]

That's cos the NZ team didn't have anyone screaming "offside" everytime a kiwi did a pick and go...gee the French could afford to push the offside line on the blindside away from Barney's eyes cos they probably knew the touchie wasn't calling it as well as the fact that they knew MacAlister had a slim chance of kicking a penalty from the blindside. NZ should have gone at the fringes on the open right in front of the ref to see the offside.

[/b][/quote]

I don't know aye, something tells me that the ref wouldn't have penalised the French team. The ref was right there most of the time anyway smh

 

[Hamster]

I HAVENT READ ANY OF THE WORDS IN THIS THREAD

BUT IM GOING TO SAY THEY LOST THE f***ING GAME, THAT IS SPORT GET OVER IT.

 

[dylan]

Like an earlier poster, I don't think you can absolve the CAPTAIN just by saying that its not his job anymore to be a decision-maker. I wonder if, fundamentally, McCaw knew his future selection was never going to be an issue, so he didn't have the do-or-die attitude to over-ride Henry's pre-programmed tactics even if/when he saw they were failing. Whatever, its undeniable that he was AWOL as a leader for much of the quarter-final. Maybe this is because he had been drilled by Enolka as claimed by gay guy, or maybe he just doesn't have what it takes to be a leader/decision-maker.

There is no point saying Carter needed to be the leader/decision-maker, he was off the field. In that case the CAPTAIN needed to stand up and take some decisions.

That said, I still think that when you look at the broad sweep of international rugby, there are very few games where a team could dominate possession and terriotry like the ABs did in that game, especially the last quarter, and not win through the glut of penalties that normally produces. This game was an enigma in that respect, whether you blame the officiating crew for that...

 

[Gavin]

The general in the team surely has to be the captain.

I think that Richie McCaw doesn't seem to take his players by their necks and tell them what to do, even if he leads by example. I'd rather have Jerry Collins as my captain for the All Black Squad. You'd have to do what he says.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotemain'>
But what about GG's view on AB generals over the years? Put it another way - are NZ fans content to think that Carter would have done the job if he'd been fit? And is that good enough for next time round?

<div class='quotemain'>And the French tries weren't brillant. One was a foward pass, and the other was a simple overlap which any decent team worth their salt should score when facing a team with a man in the bin. McAlister's try was much better (Jauzion is still his ***** no matter the result) [/b]

Forward pass is debatable - marginal in my view, given Traille was stopped in his tracks as he offloaded - but the first try must have been the first time in years the ABs were ripped apart and left strewn all over the field from one touchline to the other. Some credit to your opponents please, Mr Bok lover.
[/b][/quote]

Marginal lol, **** off. [/b][/quote]
Marginal because of the momentum interpretation and the position of Traille's hands. And why does nobody tip the hat to France's first try? Awesome.

But NZ should have won. How to fix that? GG gives a great analysis (with some great follow up posts), but NZ posters just want to ***** about the man who's probably going to be blowing the whistle at the next RWC final. And the Saffers will win that one too! Then shall ye know reeeeal pain.

 

[Gay-Guy]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
But what about GG's view on AB generals over the years? Put it another way - are NZ fans content to think that Carter would have done the job if he'd been fit? And is that good enough for next time round?

<div class='quotemain'>And the French tries weren't brillant. One was a foward pass, and the other was a simple overlap which any decent team worth their salt should score when facing a team with a man in the bin. McAlister's try was much better (Jauzion is still his ***** no matter the result) [/b]

Forward pass is debatable - marginal in my view, given Traille was stopped in his tracks as he offloaded - but the first try must have been the first time in years the ABs were ripped apart and left strewn all over the field from one touchline to the other. Some credit to your opponents please, Mr Bok lover.
[/b][/quote]

Marginal lol, **** off. [/b][/quote]
Marginal because of the momentum interpretation and the position of Traille's hands. And why does nobody tip the hat to France's first try? Awesome.

But NZ should have won. How to fix that? GG gives a great analysis (with some great follow up posts), but NZ posters just want to ***** about the man who's probably going to be blowing the whistle at the next RWC final. And the Saffers will win that one too! Then shall ye know reeeeal pain. [/b][/quote]



Ideally a good team should never let a ref determine the result. NZ lack of leadership allowed the ref to have a say.

 

[Dmx#1]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
But what about GG's view on AB generals over the years? Put it another way - are NZ fans content to think that Carter would have done the job if he'd been fit? And is that good enough for next time round?

<div class='quotemain'>And the French tries weren't brillant. One was a foward pass, and the other was a simple overlap which any decent team worth their salt should score when facing a team with a man in the bin. McAlister's try was much better (Jauzion is still his ***** no matter the result) [/b]

Forward pass is debatable - marginal in my view, given Traille was stopped in his tracks as he offloaded - but the first try must have been the first time in years the ABs were ripped apart and left strewn all over the field from one touchline to the other. Some credit to your opponents please, Mr Bok lover.
[/b][/quote]

Marginal lol, **** off. [/b][/quote]
Marginal because of the momentum interpretation and the position of Traille's hands. And why does nobody tip the hat to France's first try? Awesome.

But NZ should have won. How to fix that? GG gives a great analysis (with some great follow up posts), but NZ posters just want to ***** about the man who's probably going to be blowing the whistle at the next RWC final. And the Saffers will win that one too! Then shall ye know reeeeal pain. [/b][/quote]

:masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana:

 

[Ripper]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
But what about GG's view on AB generals over the years? Put it another way - are NZ fans content to think that Carter would have done the job if he'd been fit? And is that good enough for next time round?

<div class='quotemain'>And the French tries weren't brillant. One was a foward pass, and the other was a simple overlap which any decent team worth their salt should score when facing a team with a man in the bin. McAlister's try was much better (Jauzion is still his ***** no matter the result) [/b]

Forward pass is debatable - marginal in my view, given Traille was stopped in his tracks as he offloaded - but the first try must have been the first time in years the ABs were ripped apart and left strewn all over the field from one touchline to the other. Some credit to your opponents please, Mr Bok lover.
[/b][/quote]
Marginal lol, **** off. [/b][/quote]
Marginal because of the momentum interpretation and the position of Traille's hands. And why does nobody tip the hat to France's first try? Awesome.

But NZ should have won. How to fix that? GG gives a great analysis (with some great follow up posts), but NZ posters just want to ***** about the man who's probably going to be blowing the whistle at the next RWC final. And the Saffers will win that one too! Then shall ye know reeeeal pain. [/b][/quote]

Awesome? Once again, How was that try "awesome". They scored on a simple overlap when the All Blacks had a man in the bin. Canada scored more impressive tries this year against us... with the All Blacks actually having 15 men on the field. You'd probably get a heart attack watching some if the tries the Blues have scored over the years. And of course it's marginal in your eye's, you also thought that Italy were suddenly on par with us.

And to all those who harp on about Mauger still - all I have to say is put your head in the nearest the oven door and slam it several times, then go and watch of the first 2 All Black Tri Nations game's this year.

do you think that Henry even thought about practicing a drop goal set piece with the team at any point up to that fatal quarter-final?[/b]

I'm sure they did, but something tell's me that they didn't have Leonard (the Back Up Halfback) and McAlister (the 3rd Choice Fly Half) running the drills together that often... Carter took a snap at goal earlier on in the game remember.

 

[shtove]

And why does nobody tip the hat to France's first try? Awesome.

But NZ should have won. How to fix that? GG gives a great analysis (with some great follow up posts), but NZ posters just want to ***** about the man who's probably going to be blowing the whistle at the next RWC final. And the Saffers will win that one too! Then shall ye know reeeeal pain. [/b]

Awesome? Once again, How was that try "awesome". They scored on a simple overlap when the All Blacks had a man in the bin. Canada scored more impressive tries this year against us... with the All Blacks actually having 15 men on the field. You'd probably get a heart attack watching some if the tries the Blues have scored over the years. And of course it's marginal in your eye's, you also thought that Italy were suddenly on par with us.

And to all those who harp on about Mauger still - all I have to say is put your head in the nearest the oven door and slam it several times, then go and watch of the first 2 All Black Tri Nations game's this year.
[/b]

It wasn't a simple overlap - they built that try from deep with intelligent movement and recycles: irresistible force. One the ABs would have been proud of. And BTW - Canada lost.

As DarkmanX would say:
:masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana: :masturbanana:

Anyway, it's a serious question - what must the ABs do to stop the Saffers in NZ 11? How can they improve? Losing two outhalfs in the late stages of one match was a *****. But SA still looked like the more complete team. And if they manage their player development they'll have a selection pool that rivals the islanders.

 

[Prestwick]

I'm sure they did, but something tell's me that they didn't have Leonard (the Back Up Halfback) and McAlister (the 3rd Choice Fly Half) running the drills together that often... Carter took a snap at goal earlier on in the game remember. [/b]

I do remember that Sir Clive rehearsed such eventualities with England back in 2003. Anyone who could even barely kick had to be expected to shoulder the burden if in a nightmare scenario, the first, second and third choice kicker went begging. As far as what I'm hearing from other Kiwis, apparently GH didn't do any drop goal drills or didn't have time to do them.

The situation that New Zealand ended up in was more of their own design than of fate but with something like that, you really need to plan and prepare meticulously. Simply relying on divine inspiration and spontanious rugby just doesn't cut it sometimes in the knock out stages of the most important rugby tournament on the planet.