The Leinster thread

[Feicarsinn]

LoL.

I'd like to see us actually do some meaningful loan deals. Jack Conan for example is ready for pro rugby, but Leinster would be wise to keep him. A two season stint out west where he's playing every week would be better than being third choice 8 (at best) in Dublin.

The problem with deals like that of course is the fact that a lot of the young lads who'd fit the bill are tied down with college. Henshaw is actually in interesting case of that. Would he have signed that two year deal with Connacht if it weren't for him attending NUIG? Interesting question.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

It seems as though Leinster will announce a batch of signings and contract news tomorrow. Anyone want to speculate on who may be there?

What is known is that Brian O'Driscoll and Leo Cullen are retiring. From the Leinster awards at the weekend, there was a presentation to Jack O'Connell, Darren Hudson, Leo Auva'a and Andrew Goodman who are moving on. Peter O'Reilly speculates that Quinn Roux is also departing - Connacht has been mentioned as a destination elsewhere.

On the new contract front, supposedly Michael Bent has signed a 2 year deal. Dave Kearney is reported to have put pen to paper recently too. No word on the scrum halves Eoin Reddan and Isaac Boss.

As for new signings, Kane Douglas seems to be an open secret. Is there anything to the Michael Collins rumours? Trinity 10 Sam Windsor has been linked with a development deal too.

Not too much longer until we find out.

 

[Peat]

LoL.

I'd like to see us actually do some meaningful loan deals. Jack Conan for example is ready for pro rugby, but Leinster would be wise to keep him. A two season stint out west where he's playing every week would be better than being third choice 8 (at best) in Dublin.

The problem with deals like that of course is the fact that a lot of the young lads who'd fit the bill are tied down with college. Henshaw is actually in interesting case of that. Would he have signed that two year deal with Connacht if it weren't for him attending NUIG? Interesting question.

That is a problem - I'd say the bigger problem is that loans just don't make sense for Connacht as a rule. There's no point in taking on youngsters from elsewhere to develop and hand back when they are developing their own players who are more likely to stick and help build something, so any loan has to be someone who can step straight in, and the standard of player now needed to step right in and make an impact there is higher than most of the other provinces have kicking around unused.

Maybe Conan can do it, but I don't see too many loans like that at the moment.

 

[munstermuffin]

It seems Collins has signed for 2 years with Leinster

 

[Darwin]

It seems Collins has signed for 2 years with Leinster

If this is true I am going to find the nearest person with an Irish sounding name and poke them with a sharp stick

 

[Amiga500]

If this were true, Connacht should seek a lot in return. Ian Madigan, Jack Conan and Brendan Macken for starters.

Hmmm. I'd prefer to see Henshaw stay out west. With the rule changes, now Connacht can get "HEC" rugby without relying on or having to beat the other 3 provinces. Better to have 4 top-level squads than 3 and a bit.

It'd be an awful kick in the teeth for all involved with Connacht to have Henshaw spirited away at this point in time.

 

[Feicarsinn]

It seems Collins has signed for 2 years with Leinster

Can't complain about the signing. We're not strong at centre and are set to get weaker when D'arcy goes. If this guy is good enough to go straight into the ITM out of school and get a number of Baby Blacks caps he's probably a pretty capable operator. Doesn't take up an IQ spot either if we need another centre next year.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

If this is true I am going to find the nearest person with an Irish sounding name and poke them with a sharp stick

Rodney Ah You maybe?

Sean McCarthy is the signing announcement for today. Underwhelming to say the least. He's in and out of the Jersey team at loosehead as far as I can gather. Best of luck to him. I assume he'll be 4th choice at best behind Cian Healy, Jack McGrath and Michael Bent. What message does it send out to Edward Byrne and Peter Dooley?

 

[Amiga500]

What message does it send out to Edward Byrne and Peter Dooley?

Don't get a mortgage based on your Leinster branch wages...

 

[munstermuffin]

Can't complain about the signing. We're not strong at centre and are set to get weaker when D'arcy goes. If this guy is good enough to go straight into the ITM out of school and get a number of Baby Blacks caps he's probably a pretty capable operator. Doesn't take up an IQ spot either if we need another centre next year.

Could be the key. He can play 12&13 and I presume D'Arcy hasn't long left but will be used sparingly considering RWC and his age.

 

[Peat]

Rodney Ah You maybe?

Sean McCarthy is the signing announcement for today. Underwhelming to say the least. He's in and out of the Jersey team at loosehead as far as I can gather. Best of luck to him. I assume he'll be 4th choice at best behind Cian Healy, Jack McGrath and Michael Bent. What message does it send out to Edward Byrne and Peter Dooley?

That they don't want to be relying on kids who are still only 20 come the international period when Healy and McGrath will definitely be absent? Don't see that as too unreasonable.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Sean McCarthy is 23, only 2 years older than Edward Byrne. With Michael Bent likely to be next in line when Cian Healy and Jack McGrath are on Ireland duty, the new signing will only be needed for bench duty. Byrne and Peter Dooley have strong underage pedigree and need a chance. McCarthy doesn't have the same pedigree and hasn't been playing at a particularly high level in England recently. I hope he's a terrific signing and proves to be better than Leinster's last two forays to the RFU Championship (Ben Prescott and Tom Denton).

I'm underwhelmed by Leinster's squad news. I believe that they'll have a bloated squad with a lot of players who realistically will never rise beyond Pro 12 fill ins while the internationals are away. I think you could cut 5 or 6 players from the squad fairly easily and use that money to buy in a top level player who'll boost the top XXIII.

 

[lynam1104]

\I'm underwhelmed by Leinster's squad news. I believe that they'll have a bloated squad with a lot of players who realistically will never rise beyond Pro 12 fill ins while the internationals are away. I think you could cut 5 or 6 players from the squad fairly easily and use that money to buy in a top level player who'll boost the top XXIII.

Agreed, Leinster haven't really brought in any standout players in a number of years which is both puzzling and worrying.

 

[Peat]

Sean McCarthy is 23, only 2 years older than Edward Byrne. With Michael Bent likely to be next in line when Cian Healy and Jack McGrath are on Ireland duty, the new signing will only be needed for bench duty. Byrne and Peter Dooley have strong underage pedigree and need a chance. McCarthy doesn't have the same pedigree and hasn't been playing at a particularly high level in England recently. I hope he's a terrific signing and proves to be better than Leinster's last two forays to the RFU Championship (Ben Prescott and Tom Denton).

I'm underwhelmed by Leinster's squad news. I believe that they'll have a bloated squad with a lot of players who realistically will never rise beyond Pro 12 fill ins while the internationals are away. I think you could cut 5 or 6 players from the squad fairly easily and use that money to buy in a top level player who'll boost the top XXIII.

Pretty sure its a 3 year age gap, but 2/3, either way its a big difference at that age level. I'd say a lot of props only break through when 22/23 and that a lot of props who break through really young seem to end up carrying a lot of injury complications. I see nothing alarming about the idea that Byrne and Dooley aren't ready and that a stopgap is needed while they are developed slowly and surely.

That said, McCarthy probably ain't much, and leicester have been notorious for ignoring their academy in favour of cheap journeymen, so maybe O'Connor has the disease and you're right to worry.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I think it's bringing in a 4th choice player for the sake of bringing one in. Cian Healy made his breakthrough at 19. Martin Moore was an international at 22. Tadhg Furlong is a 21 year old tighthead being given a lot of game time. For England, Vunipola and Marler aren't exactly grizzled veterans and Kyle Sinckler is making waves at a young age. Perhaps McCarthy is a diamond in the rough but right now I'd compare his signing to Ulster's signing of Bronson Ross. That's not hindsight when speaking of Ross, I posted in this forum that I thought he was a baffling signing who'd struggle to make any impact.

McCarthy may play 7 or 8 games coming off the bench in November and the 6 Nations period. Beyond that, I doubt he'll feature.

 

[big ginger 8]

I think it's bringing in a 4th choice player for the sake of bringing one in. Cian Healy made his breakthrough at 19. Martin Moore was an international at 22. Tadhg Furlong is a 21 year old tighthead being given a lot of game time. For England, Vunipola and Marler aren't exactly grizzled veterans and Kyle Sinckler is making waves at a young age. Perhaps McCarthy is a diamond in the rough but right now I'd compare his signing to Ulster's signing of Bronson Ross. That's not hindsight when speaking of Ross, I posted in this forum that I thought he was a baffling signing who'd struggle to make any impact.

McCarthy may play 7 or 8 games coming off the bench in November and the 6 Nations period. Beyond that, I doubt he'll feature.

We do need cover for the 6N and AI, Bent will need to cover tighthead more than loosehead I'd say as after Moore and Ross, Furlong is our only tighthead. One injury to any of Dooley, Byrne, Bent or Furlong some of whom don't have the best injury history and we wouldn't have enough for a 23 in the international window.

 

[Peat]

Bronson Ross spent his entire season injured, more or less, so not exactly a fair comparison. One might as well use the example of Ricky Lutton, who'd not done a great deal before being picked up and establishing himself as a useful Ulster player.

And the exception is not the rule. Not every prop is Cian Healy. Byrne in particular is very small for a would be pro rugby player. No point me arguing this one to death, but I really do think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

We do need cover for the 6N and AI, Bent will need to cover tighthead more than loosehead I'd say as after Moore and Ross, Furlong is our only tighthead. One injury to any of Dooley, Byrne, Bent or Furlong some of whom don't have the best injury history and we wouldn't have enough for a 23 in the international window.

Leinster coped pretty well with it in 2013/14. Jack O'Connell is the only departee. I'd like to see someone step up to take his spot.

What I see is a gradual erosion of a great squad and falling into the trap Munster fell into post 2008. A bloated squad and star players being replaced one by one with somebody who's "good enough". In come James Coughlan and Tommy O'Donnell for Denis Leamy and David Wallace. In comes James Downey for Rua Tipoki. In come Mike McCarthy, Jimmy Gopperth and Dave Kearney for Nathan Hines, Jonny Sexton and Isa Nacewa. I don't want "good enough". I want the best.

Sean McCarthy may be a fine player and I really hope he is. If he was future international class, would he have spent his career moving between Peetemps Bees, Worcester Warriors and Jersey? I have my doubts. Edward Byrne and Peter Dooley have future international potential. Promote them instead. Have a loosehead depth chart of Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne and Dooley. A tighthead depth chart of Ross, Moore, Furlong and Bent follows and is more than strong enough to carry Leinster through a season.

 

[big ginger 8]

Leinster coped pretty well with it in 2013/14. Jack O'Connell is the only departee. I'd like to see someone step up to take his spot.



What I see is a gradual erosion of a great squad and falling into the trap Munster fell into post 2008. A bloated squad and star players being replaced one by one with somebody who's "good enough". In come James Coughlan and Tommy O'Donnell for Denis Leamy and David Wallace. In comes James Downey for Rua Tipoki. In come Mike McCarthy, Jimmy Gopperth and Dave Kearney for Nathan Hines, Jonny Sexton and Isa Nacewa. I don't want "good enough". I want the best.



Sean McCarthy may be a fine player and I really hope he is. If he was future international class, would he have spent his career moving between Peetemps Bees, Worcester Warriors and Jersey? I have my doubts. Edward Byrne and Peter Dooley have future international potential. Promote them instead. Have a loosehead depth chart of Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne and Dooley. A tighthead depth chart of Ross, Moore, Furlong and Bent follows and is more than strong enough to carry Leinster through a season.

I don't think you've fully understood what I've said. I'm not advocating him as being anywhere near our top 23 but as someone we need due to injury. With Healy, McGrath, Moore and Ross all likely to be with Ireland we have 4 props left one of whom has less than 5 senior minutes and another who's never even been involved in a senior 23. Prop's a highly attritional position and Byrne's missed most of this year, Furlong's had plenty of problems and Dooley and Bent have hardly been injury free either. Simply for logistical reasons we need him so we'll definitely be able to put out a 23, unless you're saying we should put out Heffernan or Loughman as part if a senior team.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Leinster coped pretty well with it in 2013/14. Jack O'Connell is the only departee. I'd like to see someone step up to take his spot.

What I see is a gradual erosion of a great squad and falling into the trap Munster fell into post 2008. A bloated squad and star players being replaced one by one with somebody who's "good enough". In come James Coughlan and Tommy O'Donnell for Denis Leamy and David Wallace. In comes James Downey for Rua Tipoki. In come Mike McCarthy, Jimmy Gopperth and Dave Kearney for Nathan Hines, Jonny Sexton and Isa Nacewa. I don't want "good enough". I want the best.

Sean McCarthy may be a fine player and I really hope he is. If he was future international class, would he have spent his career moving between Peetemps Bees, Worcester Warriors and Jersey? I have my doubts. Edward Byrne and Peter Dooley have future international potential. Promote them instead. Have a loosehead depth chart of Healy, McGrath, Bent, Byrne and Dooley. A tighthead depth chart of Ross, Moore, Furlong and Bent follows and is more than strong enough to carry Leinster through a season.

I only partly agree with this. The Leinster situation differs from the Munster one in that we still have the a number of key players hitting their prime. O'Driscoll, Hines, Cullen and Nacewa may have gone, but Rob Kearney, Jamie Heaslip, Cian Healy and Sean O'Brien should be at the very top of their game and taking over the roles of leadership.

We're essentially Johnny Sexton short of being in Europe's elite. He's been a much bigger loss than O'Driscoll will be. The IRFU really screwed Leinster over on that one. With him, there'd be no talk of decline of the squad imo.

Anyway, hopefully we can get a bit of luck with injuries next season. Losing Strauss, O'Brien and Fitzgerald for large swathes of the season was something we really couldn't afford. Fitz is cursed, but hopefully the other two can make more substantial contributions next year.