The Improvement of Tier Two Nations - In Particular Russia

[Jayatron]

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/features/newsid=2060940.html#jones+excited+russian+challenge


Another interesting read posted by the iRB.

This really shows Russia's ambitions as a rugby nation. But is it realistic?

 

[Croket66]

Russia have population (142,856,536)
Russia have money (3-4 millions € for the big three : VVA-Podmoskovye, Krasny Yar, Enisey-STM)
Russia have good domestic teams (the big three it's level ProD2/Championship)
Russia have good players (Gresev, Ostrikov, Artemiev...)

Like for Georgia, here is a list of Russian players :

2d Row :
Andrey Ostrikov (Sale Sharks, Aviva Premiership) - 24 yo, first season at the higher level, after 4 years in ProD2
Adam Byrnes (Melbourne Rebels, Super Rugby) - 30 yo, 28 Super Rugby games in 3 seasons he played 2 season for Leinster too.
Kirill Kulemin (Castres Olympique, Top14) - 31 years old, he played more than 100 games in Top14

3d Row :
Viktor Gresev (Nottingham RFC, RFU Championship) - 25 yo, he just signed for Nottingham after an impressive RWC : man-of-the-match against Australia and Italy

Scrum-Half :
Alexander Yanyushkin (VVA-Podmoskovye, Super League) - 29 yo, the little scrum-half have a big talent!

Fly-Halves :
Yuri Kushnarev (Melbourne Rebels training squad) - 26 yo, he made the pre-season with the Rebels and will play probably one year in Sidney
Konstantin Rachkov (Stade Phocéen, Federale 1) - 31 yo, he played in Top14 and ProD2 for Montauban, Lyon, Tarbes and Aix

Wings/FullBacks :
Vasily Artemyev (Northampton Saints, Aviva Premiership) - 24 yo, the former irish international (U19) scored 7 tries in 10 games for Northampton this year!
Vladimir Ostrouchko (Enisey-STM, Super League) - 25 yo, 2 tries in the World Cup after only 1 season in Rugby Union. For the next season he returns to 7 but continues to play for Russia rugby union team
Denis Simplikevitch (Enisey-STM, Super League) - only 20 years old he made a good RWC with to tries scored against Ireland and Australia. London Wasps have an eye on this guy

 

[Jayatron]

If anyone remembers the called off Dragons V Blues match when they were trying to determine if the game was going ahead in the studio they talked about the development of Russian Rugby. Kingsley Jones said that the Russia Federation were working on getting a team into the Amlin within the next two years. Again only good news for Russian rugby. But even with this they have set themselves very high goals. By 2019 they want to be in the Top 10 of the world but I'm not sure if this is at all possible. Georgia, Canada and Japan can reach this goal but I'm really not sure, even with the players above, they can achieve this. Not by 2019 any way.

Another note; with inclusion the Portuguese, and rumoured inclusion, of the teams from Russia, Georgia and Germany the Amlin, in a way, is the true European cup!!

 

[Croket66]

To be in the Top10, Georgia, Russia, Canada and Japan

Georgia send the maximum of his players in France and now in England
Japan have a full professional championship with a lot of rugby stars (Du Preez, Nonu, Fourie, Thorn...)
Russia have a full professional championship but not with a lot of foreign players and send a little number of his better players in England (Gresev, Artemiev, Ostrikov)
Canda created a super provinces championship and have players in England.

What the best way for the Top10...?

 

[Seaton]

All this talk of Tier 2 teams having professional championships, and Scotland can barel afford it's two pro teams :s

 

[Peat]

All this talk of Tier 2 teams having professional championships, and Scotland can barel afford it's two pro teams :s

There are rich men in those countries willing to pay. There aren't in Scotland, maybe a debt ridden union.

 

[Nielsch]

Scotland will be a Tier 2 nation in the future...

 

[formerlyfastwing]

Canda created a super provinces championship and have players in England.

What the best way for the Top10...?

Canada is a long, long, long way from the Top 10.

Our best athletes still funnel into hockey. Our size is a big issue to over come. I reckon we will always float around 10-15 in the rankings.

 

[LittleGuy]

Canada is a long, long, long way from the Top 10.

Our best athletes still funnel into hockey. Our size is a big issue to over come. I reckon we will always float around 10-15 in the rankings.

I agree with this FFW, the optimistic (but plausible) scenario I'd like to see is us in the 10-15 range but able to compete well with some of the lower ranked Top 10 on a consistent basis. eg. Canada being able to give close games and occasional victories with the likes of Italy, Scotland, Samoa, possibly even Wales and Ireland(if they are in a downturn cycle).

There have been some great posts in the CRC thread about the obstacles facing Canadian rugby for those outside of here wishing to know about the various problems we face but the Cole's notes version would include things like.

1. Size of country- distance of population centres from each other.
2. Climate- Outside of the lower mainland and islands of BC, winter is an issue.
3. Crowded sports marketplace- A lof of popular sports in North America including Gridiron.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I'd say there is no chance whatsoever of Russia being a Top 10 nation by 2019. It's safe to assume that England, France and the Tri-Nations teams will always be in there, Ireland and Wales I can't see dropping off dramatically and Italy and Argentina (the two emerging powers in world rugby) have a massive head start on them. That leaves one spot which will be competed for by Scotland, the Pacific Isles and perhaps Japan at a push.

It would also mean that the current crop of Russian 16 year olds (24 come 2019) would have to be outstanding and pretty much all capable of playing Top14/Aviva Premiership/Pro 12 rugby, which they won't be.

I can't see Russia making a notable impression on world rugby for at least 20 years. They just don't have the players.

 

[Bail]

Scotland will be a Tier 2 nation in the future...

Scotland is already a Tier 2 Nation but they keep their level above artificially with perpetual games against true Tier 1 Nation. Spain would have the same level if they had the same treatment.

 

[Seaton]

Scotland is already a Tier 2 Nation but they keep their level above artificially with perpetual games against true Tier 1 Nation. Spain would have the same level if they had the same treatment.

:lol:

I think you will find there is an insufficient number of Scottish posters for it to be worthwhile trolling here Bail

 

[powerfulduck]

fair play to them, they seam to be making the right noises.

 

[Bail]

:lol:

I think you will find there is an insufficient number of Scottish posters for it to be worthwhile trolling here Bail

I can't find them because Scottish don't like rugby, they like their national team. Scottish people don't care about the show of rugby, if it was the case, pro rugby woudn't be in a mess.

 

[Seaton]

I can't find them because Scottish don't like rugby, they like their national team. Scottish people don't care about the show of rugby, if it was the case, pro rugby woudn't be in a mess.

So if the Scottish people started caring about the 'show of rugby', then pro rugby the world over would no longer suffer any ills?

By God, no wonder the IRB won't give us Shingler!

 

[Bail]

By God, no wonder the IRB won't give us Shingler!

You still want to poach Tim Visser.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Technically Visser chose Scotland, as he would have been eligible for England if he'd have stuck around for another 24 hours (or something like that).

 

[Seaton]

Technically Visser chose Scotland, as he would have been eligible for England if he'd have stuck around for another 24 hours (or something like that).

Technically?

You are just trying to save Bail some face

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Technically?

You are just trying to save Bail some face

Technically I ​was trying to shoot him down :lol:

 

[Melhor Time]

To be in the Top10, Georgia, Russia, Canada and Japan

Georgia send the maximum of his players in France and now in England
Japan have a full professional championship with a lot of rugby stars (Du Preez, Nonu, Fourie, Thorn...)
Russia have a full professional championship but not with a lot of foreign players and send a little number of his better players in England (Gresev, Artemiev, Ostrikov)
Canda created a super provinces championship and have players in England.

What the best way for the Top10...?

Georgia is doing things really well. Players must be exposed to perofessional rugby or they will never reach their potential. To kick on though they do need to get improved structure at home. The development centres are working and then national championship is too. It needs to go professional though. Either join Romania an possibly others to make something similar to to Rabo Direct Pro 12 would be the smartest path. A team in the Amlin Chellenge Cup asap.

Japan has improved significantly. It should have defeated Tonga and Canada at the World Cup. Its really bizzare how poor they played vs Tonga. They´d put 40 points on Namibia. I´m sure they´ll win two matches at RWC 2019 and depending on who they play in 2015 I´d probably say the same.

Russia is on its way. The question is when will the national side be capable of competing with the first tier. I´d say not too far from now. The money going into the sport and its rising image is working. Amlin Challenge Cup entry will be a massive breakthrough. Russia could well knock over Fiji, Tonga, the USA and Canada before RWC 2015.

Canada is improving a lot now that its got rid of the Super League system and gone for the CRC. Hopefully the four teams can become 6 shortly. The Rock could be downsided with maybe New Brunswick splitting off. The region has produced some great players currently in the national side. Canada need the USA and the USA need Canada. The USA is trying to go pro and could well succeed in 2013 as planned. If so then Canada will be included.

Overall things are massively better than they were in 2004 when the outlook was grim following the worst World Cup ever. The second tier is improving and what is interesting is big countries are getting better. Its no longer mostly small countries that most people can´t find even on a map. I´ve had conversations with people who want Namibia to lose because of its population and don´t like Samoa for its size and population. Not that I buy into this point of view but it does carry weight in that Japan as a big rugby nation is probably better for rugby than Tonga. Same goes for Canada compared to Uruguay and Russia compared to Lithuania.