The coming week for Stuart Lancaster and Co.

[ncurd]

Mike Ford has moved Bath from an alright team to one of the more exciting attacking teams in the NH. He's also been defence coach for Ireland, The Lions and England. Bath are built from forward dominance with exciting backline players(Ford, Eastmond, Joseph, Watson, Agulla, Rokodunguni...Banahan ) basically most of England's current and possible backline.

Exeter are also filled through of young players full of potential.

Basically whilst it's currently Saints/Saracen's at the top of the AP with the Tigers slowly falling most players for future England sqauds will likely come from these two teams.

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Nick Walshe is the current under 20's coach

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Walshe

I'd worry about his lack of top-end experience.

 

[Jakedood]

That sounds intriguing to have a guy who understands defence but places an emphasis on attacking strength. Also most of that backline isn't overly large, but I hate the stereotype that big man = good defender, which isnt the case (Chris Ashton ain't small, but his tackling is average at best, closer to poor on international stage). What type of forward play to bath use, is it high intensity, hard rucking sort of stuff, or more the trucking powerfully around the fringes? What's the dynamic of the pack? Because I actualy quite like the sound of him, though he probably wouldn't get the job as he'd be accused of bias (oh the irony).

What players do Exeter have barr Slade/Nowell?

In regards to Nick Walshe, you only get experience at this level by getting thrown in the deep end unfortunately, but by the sounds of it there's some potentially strong candidates already, and you wouldn't want him to leave and find the pool of talent 18-21 years old to dry up, as this is notoriously one of the hardest age ranges to bring players up from "prospects" to "talented players"

 

[BigSam89]

When england win and if they win everybody will be back pedalling saying how good they have become , It's not a slagging match we should be getting behind england but every sport in this country when it's played we all watch like a hawk waiting for a slip up.

 

[ncurd]

I'll let someone else who understands forward play a lot better than me explain that one. To me it feels "traditional" win scrums with front row, lineout with second row, complete at breakdown with backrow, normal 6,7,8 axis. Helps we have some pretty talented players throughout the pack quite a few have a point of difference.

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When england win and if they win everybody will be back pedalling saying how good they have become , It's not a slagging match we should be getting behind england but every sport in this country when it's played we all watch like a hawk waiting for a slip up.

Not really last week was poor selection combined with poor decision making. I doubt I'll be saying how good they've become when they actually play to their potential. It's going to take me a lot after 4 6nations 2nd places and last weeks debacle in man managements to convince me these guys should stay. I've said Semi-Final all along would save them but I'm not convinced getting it right for 2 more games(not counting Uruguay) is enough to tell me they won't balls it up again. I suppose if we make the semi-final the manner in which we loose will count for a lot in my book.

 

[Jakedood]

I'm not saying Lancaster should go, I'm just saying it's interesting when you look at some of the English coaches around, they look pretty sharp in that regard! As well as the fact that Ford who understands both sides of the game can help with finding a good balance of defence and attack.

In regards to the forwards,I'll break down my queries :

would the front row be a mobile one or purely scrum oriented?
Would you have traditional "engine", scrum lock at 4 and a lineout, half backrow esque lineout operator at 5
And does the backrow include another jumper, and is it centred on big ball carrying, and how much focus is given to turning over possession?

 

[Maverick1987]

But that makes no sense to me. Those teams that won the JWRC didn't have a New Zealand coach. Why not promote the coach who was in charge of the Junior team. He has a good relationship with most of the players already, the players know the brand the coach wants to play, and it produces winning rugby.

South Africa did that with Jake White, and look what it did for us, it gave us our second RWC trophy.

I seriously don't get why the NH is so "We need a NZ coach"-mentality. A coach is just one part of the puzzle, but I don't know why it all of a sudden always has to a NZ coach. How many NZ coaches are there currently involved at the World Cup? Not all of them are having success...

Maybe I didn't phrase it right . I want us to hire Wayne Smith haha

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm not saying Lancaster should go, I'm just saying it's interesting when you look at some of the English coaches around, they look pretty sharp in that regard! As well as the fact that Ford who understands both sides of the game can help with finding a good balance of defence and attack.

In regards to the forwards,I'll break down my queries :

would the front row be a mobile one or purely scrum oriented?
Would you have traditional "engine", scrum lock at 4 and a lineout, half backrow esque lineout operator at 5
And does the backrow include another jumper, and is it centred on big ball carrying, and how much focus is given to turning over possession?

I'd sack Lancaster under the premiss that he hasn't built a style of rugby and he has caused losses based on his selections and substitutions

 

[wayevs]

Let's face it it isn't just this WC that will cost Lancaster his job, we have played some of the poorest rugby ever seen by any English team ever, no inspiration, no guile, no character, no excitement...nothing. The team represents the coach. I'm hoping that Lancaster sees that he is a waste of space and stop teaching the future of English rugby. I look at him and see loser. P45 for Lancaster and co.

Really, I thought the opposite I've seen some exciting rugby from England since Lancaster took over they've looked fast and sharp , think people are dwelling far too much on the result from Saturday, had England won you wouldn't be having this discussion

 

[TommiG88]

To be honest, Lancaster got the job because he came 2nd in his first 6 nations (a year after Johnson won it) and has gone on to come 2nd every year since.

There's been no improvement and his obvious favouritism will cost him his job. He only includes newer younger players when his decisions get questioned a lot (see Ashton) or we have injury problems (Eastmond & Joseph to an extent).

Our back row forwards have been a major problem for the last 4 years and he has done absolutely nothing to change that. Only 7/8 months ago when our Saxons played the Wolfhounds and we had a back row that contested the breakdown against a decent team and he ignored everyone of those players for the full squad.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Exeter are a good team but I think people overrate them as players. Bar Slade and Ewers. (Cowan dickie has shown potential but I don't think he is as good as others think hill still on the fence ATM).

Take away Baxter and Exeter would suffer a lot IMO.

 

[wayevs]

I don't confess to knowing more about your team than you lot do but from an outside looking in England these past couple of seasons have looked better than ever they play attractive rugby , he ses to have ousted the deadwood and brought in fresh young talented players the like pu would not have seen under Johnson's reign . I don't but from an outside perspective he seems to have done a decent job and I quite like watching England play now

 

[TommiG88]

I don't confess to knowing more about your team than you lot do but from an outside looking in England these past couple of seasons have looked better than ever they play attractive rugby , he ses to have ousted the deadwood and brought in fresh young talented players the like pu would not have seen under Johnson's reign . I don't but from an outside perspective he seems to have done a decent job and I quite like watching England play now

To be fair to Johnson, he had (oldman) Wilkinson and flakey Flood to choose from when it came to picking his 10 and we had very little talent in the centres at that time. This current pool of players (in the backs particularly) is a lot better than it was. Johnson played to our strengths which was a very forward orientated game. In the last world cup I didn't expect much from England and that's what we got.

 

[Peat]

Sweet jesus but there's a lot of bull around.

Lancaster has got us playing *fantastic* rugby at times. It's been awful at times too, but it's not been unrelentingly bad. He has chucked around young players like they were confetti. Most coaches wait for injuries before making changes these days - so what?

The problem with Lancaster is he keeps changing his mind about what he wants - so we're not building to anything - and he can't seem to help the team to get on the right side of a tight result. I could be patient with the latter but the former says there's no point.


As for Mike Ford - no more players' dads please.

 

[ncurd]

As for Mike Ford - no more players' dads please.

Probably why I prefer Baxter stops any nepotism calls real or perceived. The problem is Ford Sr. is a really decent candidate for the England job are we really going to wait until Jr. finishes his international career before considering him?

 

[TommiG88]

We've only played really well once this year.

Fantastic rugby is a bit brave.

Wait for injuries when the player in question is off form. Oh come on!

 

[BigSam89]

I go back to what a previous member said , Had England won on saturday and if they we're to win on this saturday then all the keyboard critic's will disappear back in the cupboard under the stair's , 1 game we lost , Considering Australia did not manage to get a bonus point from Fiji but we did I think we aren't doing that badly , If we we're to loose agains't Australia then yeah credited england have done badly but surely we should be getting behind the team rather than slating one poor performance , How do we know Wales played extremely well ?? Or are we as poor as it seem's ?? On saturday answer's will be answered as it's probably the biggest game of their lives to get out of the group of 'Death'.

 

[Tony Manx]

For me I like the idea of Mike Ford (Bath) or Rob Baxter (Exeter Chiefs) both of who get their teams to play a great brand of rugby whilst having an eye for top honours. I suspect we'll go for someone a bit more steady however.

Neither of whom have coached a team that has won anything!!

Baxter has done a brilliant job at Exeter with little money and no "Known" assistant coaches. Ford has done ok with loadsamoney and very well know assistant coaches!

We need someone of world renown and a winning cv but they are few and far between!! I would have a go at the assistant AB coach who managed Saints, Wayne something!! He must have had decent experience of winning with them!!

 

[ncurd]

I go back to what a previous member said , Had England won on saturday and if they we're to win on this saturday then all the keyboard critic's will disappear back in the cupboard under the stair's , 1 game we lost , Considering Australia did not manage to get a bonus point from Fiji but we did I think we aren't doing that badly , If we we're to loose agains't Australia then yeah credited england have done badly but surely we should be getting behind the team rather than slating one poor performance , How do we know Wales played extremely well ?? Or are we as poor as it seem's ?? On saturday answer's will be answered as it's probably the biggest game of their lives to get out of the group of 'Death'.

I'll point out most of the guys on here are not "keyboard critics" reacting badly to Saturday's result. Most saw the announced team when it was leaked and immediately pointed to the issues in the selection that were issues in the game. A lot of them have raised concerns with Lancaster before now for doing exactly this kind of thing. I think it will take a lot more than beating Australia and getting out the group for the nay-sayers not to continue to be worried about his competency at the top job.

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Neither of whom have coached a team that has won anything!!

Baxter has done a brilliant job at Exeter with little money and no "Known" assistant coaches. Ford has done ok with loadsamoney and very well know assistant coaches!

We need someone of world renown and a winning cv but they are few and far between!! I would have a go at the assistant AB coach who managed Saints, Wayne something!! He must have had decent experience of winning with them!!

TBF I think that is the major point against both, both those sides are works in progress on the ascendency rather than the finished job (Bath a little ahead of Exeter) but that's because even with loadsofmoney it doesn't instantly buy success (even Toulon's f**ktonofmoney took 3-4 years before it was obtained).

 

[TommiG88]

I go back to what a previous member said , Had England won on saturday and if they we're to win on this saturday then all the keyboard critic's will disappear back in the cupboard under the stair's , 1 game we lost , Considering Australia did not manage to get a bonus point from Fiji but we did I think we aren't doing that badly , If we we're to loose agains't Australia then yeah credited england have done badly but surely we should be getting behind the team rather than slating one poor performance , How do we know Wales played extremely well ?? Or are we as poor as it seem's ?? On saturday answer's will be answered as it's probably the biggest game of their lives to get out of the group of 'Death'.

Again, not true.

 

[Mattybuck]

I've only recently been posting, but my doubts on Lancaster are long term. To his credit I felt as did a lot of people that at the end on Jonno's spell some players did not value wearing the jersey, which was very strange given the rep of the coach.

Ford and Baxter best English coaches but agree that neithe have won anything, and to be honest I think that is important. It maybe that we would benefit from a 4-6 year spell with a SH coach to help change the culture.

Also I don't want Mike Ford to leave Bath