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The 2010 "What's your excuse Martin" game

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Bullitt

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So with England beginning the series of getting tonked next month in this years 6 Nations, it's time to get all pre-emptive on Martin Johnson blaming the referee and Rob Andrew putting spin on "there were positives to take out of the Autumn".

So, what drivel will our overlords and masters serve up this year?
 
There won't be any, cuz England will win the Si... sorry! I couldn't do it!! :p
 
Something about positives in the long term/building a team for the world cup.

Basically "don't shout at us now, shout at us when we don't make it out of the group stages in the world cup"
 
England will beat one of Wales, Ireland or France and probably finish around third. They're a team that are clearly better than Scotland or Italy, yet lack the ability to keep their game at a consistantly high enough level to threaten to win the championship. Now that I've said that they'll probably win the thing knowing my luck.
 
"Shane Williams is so small! How can you blame our players for missing all those tackles?"
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Jan 6 2010, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
England will beat one of Wales, Ireland or France and probably finish around third. They're a team that are clearly better than Scotland or Italy, yet lack the ability to keep their game at a consistantly high enough level to threaten to win the championship. Now that I've said that they'll probably win the thing knowing my luck.[/b]
Come to think of it, England could do very well this year. They'll beat Italy and most likely Wales. They CAN beat Scotland if they turn up; same with Ireland; I don't see the Irish pulling a victory from Twickenham, though it's a close call. And frankly the French game depends on the French.
 
I think we'll beat Scotland and Italy. It'll be a close game against Wales (don't know who'll win, but it'll be 3-5points either way), like Speedy said, France depends on the French. We thrashed them last year, but then they went onto play very well in the summer/autumn, so it depends if they turn up or not.
Don't reckon we'll beat Ireland, which will be disappointing as the amount of gloating that'll happen after they win at Twickenham *shudder*
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Jan 6 2010, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Jan 6 2010, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
England will beat one of Wales, Ireland or France and probably finish around third. They're a team that are clearly better than Scotland or Italy, yet lack the ability to keep their game at a consistantly high enough level to threaten to win the championship. Now that I've said that they'll probably win the thing knowing my luck.[/b]
Come to think of it, England could do very well this year. They'll beat Italy and most likely Wales. They CAN beat Scotland if they turn up; same with Ireland; I don't see the Irish pulling a victory from Twickenham, though it's a close call. And frankly the French game depends on the French.
[/b][/quote]

Taking the 'we're gonna do cack' approach to predicting how we'll do in the 6N I see? :p

I have actually got a very horrible feeling that England will actually win it...
 
We'll beat Scotland and Italy... And that's it. We'll get tanked against Ireland and France, I feel. :(
 
When push comes to shove, it's always england i'm most weary of.
More so than france or Ireland. England can take a game by the scruff of its neck and shut down their opponent.
 
Frankly, if the team is as bad this 6 nations as we have been in the autumn, then Johnson and Andrew have to go.

Last year, we could have beaten both Wales and Ireland away - we weren't too far off the pace at all. Coming out of the 6Nations, we seemed to have identified a team and combinations that actually fitted together well, played some adventurous rugby - in other words, the foundations of something reasonably successful for the first time in ages. I actually thought that Johnson might be building something half decent.

But then comes the 2009-10 season.

Our problem of grunt in the pack had been at least partially solved by Simon Shaw, Nick Easter and a dependable front row. All of them, plus a lot of other front row players, were injured. Back to square 1 there.

Our problem in the midfield seemed to have been solved. In Toby Flood we had a creative fly half who could manage a game and was in form. In Riki Flutey we had a creative centre, who could also tackle. Both of them were injured for the autumn, so back to square 1.

Our problem at fullback also seemed to have been solved - Delon Armitage was the 2nd best fullback in the 6N and had played well for England ever since his debut. Finally someone who had attacking panache, but could also catch a high ball, kick properly, and not miss tackles. Again, injured for the autumn. Back to square 1.

Clearly, none of this was Johnson's fault. However, his/ Andrew's choices of replacement for these losses were.

The front row he had nothing to work with so fair enough. But Courtney Lawes had emerged as a massive prospect at lock, and instead Johnson opted for Deacon every time. Deacon is no lineout expert, he adds no grunt, and was anonymous for the whole autumn.

The midfield saw Wilkinson and Geraghty/ Erinle. Wilkinson needs a strong pack and an experienced head at 12 in order for him to play well. Our pack is not strong, and Geraghty is the opposite of a calm and collected 12 - in fact he isn't even a 12. So the midfield was a shambles.

And at fullback, Monye was not the right option at all. He never was.

On top of this, Johnson/ Andrew failed to even think about tactics. The team of early 2009 achieved things when a brutish pack got going forward, got us territory and a platform, and then the creative backs had something to work with. Our defence was also dogged. But in the Autumn, the gameplan seemed to be 1) try bashing it up the middle a lot and 2) when this fails, kick it. Anywhere.

This is not a gameplan.

As a coach, you have to come up with some tactics that fit your team. Johnson must pick the best team he has available to him. In other words, no stupid selections like Deacon. He must have the balls to not pick Wilkinson. And once he's picked his team, he must design a gameplan that actually suits them - and if it involves kicking to the corners and lots of drop-goals, so be it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 6 2010, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Frankly, if the team is as bad this 6 nations as we have been in the autumn, then Johnson and Andrew have to go.

Last year, we could have beaten both Wales and Ireland away - we weren't too far off the pace at all. Coming out of the 6Nations, we seemed to have identified a team and combinations that actually fitted together well, played some adventurous rugby - in other words, the foundations of something reasonably successful for the first time in ages. I actually thought that Johnson might be building something half decent.

But then comes the 2009-10 season.

Our problem of grunt in the pack had been at least partially solved by Simon Shaw, Nick Easter and a dependable front row. All of them, plus a lot of other front row players, were injured. Back to square 1 there.

Our problem in the midfield seemed to have been solved. In Toby Flood we had a creative fly half who could manage a game and was in form. In Riki Flutey we had a creative centre, who could also tackle. Both of them were injured for the autumn, so back to square 1.

Our problem at fullback also seemed to have been solved - Delon Armitage was the 2nd best fullback in the 6N and had played well for England ever since his debut. Finally someone who had attacking panache, but could also catch a high ball, kick properly, and not miss tackles. Again, injured for the autumn. Back to square 1.

Clearly, none of this was Johnson's fault. However, his/ Andrew's choices of replacement for these losses were.

The front row he had nothing to work with so fair enough. But Courtney Lawes had emerged as a massive prospect at lock, and instead Johnson opted for Deacon every time. Deacon is no lineout expert, he adds no grunt, and was anonymous for the whole autumn.

The midfield saw Wilkinson and Geraghty/ Erinle. Wilkinson needs a strong pack and an experienced head at 12 in order for him to play well. Our pack is not strong, and Geraghty is the opposite of a calm and collected 12 - in fact he isn't even a 12. So the midfield was a shambles.

And at fullback, Monye was not the right option at all. He never was.

On top of this, Johnson/ Andrew failed to even think about tactics. The team of early 2009 achieved things when a brutish pack got going forward, got us territory and a platform, and then the creative backs had something to work with. Our defence was also dogged. But in the Autumn, the gameplan seemed to be 1) try bashing it up the middle a lot and 2) when this fails, kick it. Anywhere.

This is not a gameplan.

As a coach, you have to come up with some tactics that fit your team. Johnson must pick the best team he has available to him. In other words, no stupid selections like Deacon. He must have the balls to not pick Wilkinson. And once he's picked his team, he must design a gameplan that actually suits them - and if it involves kicking to the corners and lots of drop-goals, so be it.[/b]

Out of interest which Fullback d'you rate ahead of Armitage? Personally I;d have thought Kearney and Byrne would be slightly ahead of Armitage, though only just because Armitage is class.
Good post though, sums up Englands problems really. Is Flutey actually back playing yet? And if he's not, will he be bacl for the game vs Wales? He's veur dangerous a player, and I'd feel better if he wasnt playing! :p
 
Yeah, Armitage seems like a bit of a prick, but i thought he was the best FB of the 6N last year, although did nothing but kick the ball for the whole tournament, presumably under orders as he has shown in the AI's this year and for the Lions that he like a counter attack.

Logic would dictate that Ireland are the most likely team to win the 6 Nations, therefore we probably won't.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Jan 7 2010, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Out of interest which Fullback d'you rate ahead of Armitage? Personally I;d have thought Kearney and Byrne would be slightly ahead of Armitage, though only just because Armitage is class.
Good post though, sums up Englands problems really. Is Flutey actually back playing yet? And if he's not, will he be bacl for the game vs Wales? He's veur dangerous a player, and I'd feel better if he wasnt playing! :p[/b]

Last 6Nations, imho, Lee Byrne was the best fullback... arguably in the world. Kearney got talked about a lot, mainly by the Irish, but I thought he had a poor tournament anyway. Maybe that's a little harsh - he did nothing wrong, and his defensive and positional play was solid. But like the Irish team in general, he offered little more than solidity. And this did not deserve the rimjobs and showers of leprechaun gold he was receiving from (Irish) pundits like that Phil O'Berk on the BBC.

Armitage was just as good as Kearney in defence, under the high ball and so on. He also offered more in attack. So there you go. If I'd been McGeechan, I would have definitely taken him to South Africa, certainly ahead of Earls and also, if push came to shove, ahead of Kearney.

Since then, Kearney's got better and better. He had a great Lions tour, and was outstanding in the Autumn. Seeing as Byrne's been injured for ever, Kearney is by some way the best fullback in Europe.
 
Are you trying to say that Byrne wants Kearney to be behind him, or is that just a nasty rumour?
 
There's a mental image most of us won't be able to shake fast enough.

Or in Cyrils case, shake something else...
 
I thought Lee Byrne was pretty crap last year. Well, not crap, just not his usual self. He started to look sublime again against Ireland, then <strike>his sphincter exploded</strike> he got injured and got shown up by Kearney on the Lions tour.
 

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