Test Match 3: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Auckland)

[Ground We Won]

Biggest disappointment for me for the All Blacks squad is Savea coming back into the side.

I think Jordie Barrett is the next Dan Carter, so can't be too disappointed with his inclusion.

Whaaaaat.

Jordie is a good player but, he's too slow and doesn't have the technique or kicking game Carter had and they're playing different positions.

Anyone want to have a go explaining why Hansen picked Goodhue as the initial cover only to opt out off that and call up Fekitoa instead?

I think It's a sign of underestimating the opposition intially and undervaluing a good player. Lack of respect all round.

Ben Smith cleared of concussion. So hopefully he starts ahead of Jordie now.

 

[Ground We Won]

Scott Barrets been a bit of a liability coming off the bench at times. The Ireland loss snd last week come to mind. He lacks aggression and intensity, Romano was never the grestest player but, he's strong and experienced. I thought he deserved a chance off the bench this week.

Ioane had a noticeably bad game last week and didn't make much effort to get into the match, since Naholo has a concussion from SOBs swinging arm Savea gets his spot back. I'm indifferent about it but, Saves lifts his game in the AB shirt and has experience, I think he will come inside more and try get involved off the breakdown and set piece.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Whaaaaat.

Jordie is a good player but, he's too slow and doesn't have the technique or kicking game Carter had and they're playing different positions.

Anyone want to have a go explaining why Hansen picked Goodhue as the initial cover only to opt out off that and call up Fekitoa instead?

I think It's a sign of underestimating the opposition intially and undervaluing a good player. Lack of respect all round.

Ben Smith cleared of concussion. So hopefully he starts ahead of Jordie now.

I'm not saying Jordie is there yet, but he's a great all rounded player - more so than his brother.

I suppose they didn't expect Goodhue to have to play, they merely wanted him to soak up the atmosphere - perhaps that's the rationale.

I don't think they'll change the lineup now, so no Ben Smith sadly.

In regards to your other post, I don't think Ioane had a bad game by any means, play just didn't flow his way at all (unsurprisingly). Naholo didn't really do anything more than Ioane did either.

 

[welshglory]

I feel like father in reference to this Lions team.

I'm not surprised just disappointed.

And that's my feeling of this Lions tour. We had players who could be real showcase of NH rugby that we can play with ambition and we ended up with Gatley Warrenball.

Your estimation of the northern hemisphere players ability like many other critics is over ambitious. I don't think any coach would be able to get the Home nations players to play as a cohesive attacking unit due to a) the players simply not having good enough skills b) not enough time to build combinations. The 6 nations is all based on attrition, a few examples in club rugby really doesn't change that fact as much as some like the pretend. I'm pretty sure most coaches would have reverted to something similar to Gats and let's be fair here they haven't played strictly like Wales like we saw last week.

 

[Ground We Won]

I'm not saying Jordie is there yet, but he's a great all rounded player - more so than his brother.

I suppose they didn't expect Goodhue to have to play, they merely wanted him to soak up the atmosphere - perhaps that's the rationale.

I don't think they'll change the lineup now, so no Ben Smith sadly.

In regards to your other post, I don't think Ioane had a bad game by any means, play just didn't flow his way at all (unsurprisingly). Naholo didn't really do anything more than Ioane did either.

From what I've seen of him he is a terrific player. But comparing him to Dan so early is dangerous. He lacks parts to his game Dan had naturally. Can't see the similarities personally.

With regards to the Fekitoa situation, it's strange Hansen would send such a message to Fekitoa so early that we don't need him before evening seeing if this Goodhue kid is up to the task playing in test matches. I don't think there's really an out here for Hansen and he's made an error of judgement and been caught out.

Ioane struggled when play did flow his way. That is the markings of a poor match and he's lost his spot because of it.. or for tactical reasons.

Faletau had he gambled Ioane would drop if would have scored another try on that cross field kick the Lions did. Ioane looked at sea and Faletau didn't expect him to be so poor under that highball that he shaped to tackle him instead. That's just one instance of the night he had. But like you, I like him more than Savea. So it is disappointing.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Whaaaaat.

Jordie is a good player but, he's too slow and doesn't have the technique or kicking game Carter had and they're playing different positions.

Anyone want to have a go explaining why Hansen picked Goodhue as the initial cover only to opt out off that and call up Fekitoa instead?

I think It's a sign of underestimating the opposition intially and undervaluing a good player. Lack of respect all round.

Ben Smith cleared of concussion. So hopefully he starts ahead of Jordie now.

Yeah read that but Hansen did not mention anything about him coming straight into the side. Would be tough on Jordie if he did. But then Smith is vice captain.

 

[nik]

Just found out on NZH that Ioane has been ill all week.

 

[Which Tyler]

Your estimation of the northern hemisphere players ability like many other critics is over ambitious. I don't think any coach would be able to get the Home nations players to play as a cohesive attacking unit due to a) the players simply not having good enough skills b) not enough time to build combinations. The 6 nations is all based on attrition, a few examples in club rugby really doesn't change that fact as much as some like the pretend. I'm pretty sure most coaches would have reverted to something similar to Gats and let's be fair here they haven't played strictly like Wales like we saw last week.

I strongly disagree. The reason the Lions won't play inventive attacking rugby is that it takes a good 20 odd sessions (training and matches) with settled personnel to play that way, and the Lions get half of that, at best, without the settled squad aspect. Of course, that sort of time frame also only really works for a team that's already got the basics nailed down. The Lions are further let down by selecting coaches who don't know how to coach that game style.

As for your point on the 6N being all about attrition, then I that's only really the case if you o ly watch Wales, or ignore the last 2 years. England under Jones, Ireland under Schmidt and Scotland under Cotter do not base their game on attrition (though they keep as solid a foundation as they feel they can); France only base their game on attrition if "attrition" means selecting the biggest guys they can find and who cares if their fitness is shot after 60 minutes; Wales have based their game on attrition, and only attrition ever since Gatland arrived; whilst Italy... erm... have a base for their game somewhere in there... I guess... I mean, surely they must do... right?

So out of 6, that's (IMO) 1 team properly basing their game on attrition, 1 team forgetting that attrition requires more than bulk, 3 who've moved past that, and 1 who is still working out what's best for the players available.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Suddenly I'm a bit worried about this NZ backline. New guys at 12 and 15. Plus an off-form bus at wing.

I can see why they picked Dagg at wing though. The Lions should definitely use the Up-and-under in this match. Turning Savea around, having a rookie at fullback, while some of the best chasers in the NH are coming at you. Could be just what the Lions need to take the series.

It makes sense to have Fekitoa there ahead of Goodhue. Lienert-Brown and Laumape are both also rather fresh to the AB setup, and then to have another debutant come in off the bench might not be such a good idea, rather have a more experienced centre in Fekitoa to handle the pressure situations.

 

[welshglory]

I strongly disagree. The reason the Lions won't play inventive attacking rugby is that it takes a good 20 odd sessions (training and matches) with settled personnel to play that way, and the Lions get half of that, at best, without the settled squad aspect. Of course, that sort of time frame also only really works for a team that's already got the basics nailed down. The Lions are further let down by selecting coaches who don't know how to coach that game style.

As for your point on the 6N being all about attrition, then I that's only really the case if you o ly watch Wales, or ignore the last 2 years. England under Jones, Ireland under Schmidt and Scotland under Cotter do not base their game on attrition (though they keep as solid a foundation as they feel they can); France only base their game on attrition if "attrition" means selecting the biggest guys they can find and who cares if their fitness is shot after 60 minutes; Wales have based their game on attrition, and only attrition ever since Gatland arrived; whilst Italy... erm... have a base for their game somewhere in there... I guess... I mean, surely they must do... right?

So out of 6, that's (IMO) 1 team properly basing their game on attrition, 1 team forgetting that attrition requires more than bulk, 3 who've moved past that, and 1 who is still working out what's best for the players available.

You're a pedant. You pick apart my choice of words of attrition yet fail to actually get got the route of my point. Which is that the home nations players are not able to play an expansive skillful game. You can't be watching the 6 nations or other internationals and tell me that Ireland and England don't play a game based on field position and defence. You're joking mate.

Also I did say that they can't play that way because they don't have enough time together...

 

[Ground We Won]

Yeah read that but Hansen did not mention anything about him coming straight into the side. Would be tough on Jordie if he did. But then Smith is vice captain.

Hansen has a policy, 'no training, no selection'. So probably Ben won't make it.

As for Jordie, I think the plaudits he's getting are far too premature. On the back of a decent Super Rugby season where he has been given a lot of room to look good vs very poor opposition has left me suspicious on dubbing him in the next big thing. DMAC has impressed me far more and he's got two seasons under his belt.

Technically I find Jordie a bit stiff. DMAC is more natural, like Dan, he plays with instinct.

But, here's Jordie's chance though to put the cynics to the sword. He's a good kid too and I hope he does well.

 

[Ground We Won]

The Super Rugby competition has really become that poor in quality foreign opposition that it's no longer that useful as a measuring stick for upcoming players.

The NZ teams missed playing the Lions and Sharks this season... The Stormers managed to keep a few of our teams honest, but it's not enough. I think the Lions would have cut through some defences, particularly in SA and help give us a wake-up call.

 

[Truth]

All Blacks reported to having a scuffle at training. TV3 news built up a hype in stating that Sean Fitzpatrick would shed some light on it. Then when they interviewed Sean, the TV3 news reporter didn't even ask Sean if there was a scuffle at training. Sports news on TV3 practically pooped their pants.

 

[ncurd]

Your estimation of the northern hemisphere players ability like many other critics is over ambitious. I don't think any coach would be able to get the Home nations players to play as a cohesive attacking unit due to a) the players simply not having good enough skills b) not enough time to build combinations. The 6 nations is all based on attrition, a few examples in club rugby really doesn't change that fact as much as some like the pretend. I'm pretty sure most coaches would have reverted to something similar to Gats and let's be fair here they haven't played strictly like Wales like we saw last week.

I dunno I think other coaches may have taken before the 2nd test to realise Sexton/Farrell was the way to go. Many armchair coaches could see it was the way forward now we have a combo which is the clear number 1 choice but didnt actually practice together....

Why has he broken up a ready made combinatikb in Kutoje when they impressed when they played together and both far more than Jones has all tour?

Why was Russell and Ford our best two attacking fly-halves left at home?

Why did Henshaw and JJ never get a full crack of whip and seem predestined to the mid week teams?

Why did it take until the end on the tour for us even attempt to put back lines moves together? We had warm up games for a reason...

I'm not expecting champagne rugby but the personel have not even attempted to try and expand our game into something credible. Result aside we were utterly dire last week if Barrett hasn't had a bad day at the office and their legs got tired at 60 mins we'd have lost against 14 men....that shouldn't happen at the top end.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

cant believe naholo gets dropped for julian. naholo did his tasks well. i hope julian doesnt seagull for most of the game.
i reckon nathanHarris shoulda got a start. taylors looking a bit tired.
agree with laumape being there, not so much jordieBarrett, but he should do all right.

hope perenara keeps his mouth shut. i thought it was pretty disgraceful him screaming at the ref "i was taken out" then when the ref speaks to him about it he says he didnt say anything. dude youre on international TV and its recorded. show some respect to the ref TJ.

naholo was not available. he was concussed badly in the last game.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Very disappointed in this selection. Firstly the Lions only just won last week, with Barrett missing kicks. They played badly for large parts and just won. If you were going to leave the team unchanged you would have hoped for some dominance or indication that it wasn't just fortunate circumstances. I've talked about individual players before and nothing is going to change the team now, so I won't moan about them. However my other big concern is the bench. Gatland was afraid to use it last week. Now if the Lions are in a position to win, I don't see it being by more than a converted try. If he's afraid to bring players on last week, how will this be any different. Based on last week this is now a squad of 18 excluding injuries.

Overall Hansen has taken a risk to trust form players where they are needed. Gatland is hoping the same team perform a second miracle from no where, probably hoping that Watson gets Laumape or ALB sent off this time.

i don't think wholesale changes were warranted. some for sure. but the lions showed ability last week, they just made loads of errors. fixable things. as for using the bench, he decided not to disrupt the flow of a team which had just started to get it together, in a tight match, where they were far less worn out than your typical game as it was a really slow paced game.. he made the right choice in my opinion. this week i will be very surprised if he doesn't use the bench extensively.

 

[valley commando]

Why. Because I said I hope Lions loose. I'm not fan of Gatland. What's wrong with that?

So you'd cut off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

As usual I appear to have a different opinion than most of you guys. I think this is the best AB team picked for a long time, the only key player missing being Dane Coles. Now it is over to Hansen and Co to get the best of their players by not moving Beaudy and by getting Perenara on the paddock for at least 40 minutes alongside Ardie Savea. With Ardie on field and the Canes at 9.10,11,12 and 15 we will finally have an AB backline worth crowing about. We take them for granted with the 'Canes and they deliver the goods game after game behind an average tight five. Sorry Lions fans, but the AB selectors have finally taken a giant stride forward and produced a team than can win by a decent margin even with less than 50% possession. Watch out if they get more than that!

haha like the attitude

 

[Regan]

Hansen has a policy, 'no training, no selection'. So probably Ben won't make it.

As for Jordie, I think the plaudits he's getting are far too premature. On the back of a decent Super Rugby season where he has been given a lot of room to look good vs very poor opposition has left me suspicious on dubbing him in the next big thing. DMAC has impressed me far more and he's got two seasons under his belt.

Technically I find Jordie a bit stiff. DMAC is more natural, like Dan, he plays with instinct.

But, here's Jordie's chance though to put the cynics to the sword. He's a good kid too and I hope he does well.

The thing Jordie has over DMAC is his height, a test against a team like the Lions, you just would not see DMAC at 15.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Anyone want to have a go explaining why Hansen picked Goodhue as the initial cover only to opt out off that and call up Fekitoa instead?

I think It's a sign of underestimating the opposition intially and undervaluing a good player. Lack of respect all round.

because it would be too much inexperience to have goodhue there (plus fekitoa is more versatile). goodhue was injury cover, sure, but they didn't expect to lose both SBW and crotty and smith. that's a lot of experience considering there's no nonu or conrad. also, fekitoa can come on if laumape is struggling, but they wouldn't replace a struggling debutant with another debutante.

if they had fekitoa in the squad initially he'd likely be starting this test as it is a pretty inexperienced and fragile looking backline. but because fekitoa hasn't been with them for long he only makes the bench.